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uphill climb

+28
Paula Sue
Chris M
Michael Enright
Peg Coover
T Miller
JohnP
Nick Morris
jon c
Jim Lentz
Penelope
Alex Kubacki
Tom H
mul21
ChasMcG
Julie
Ken Mello
Randy E
Natalie
Mark B
Michele "1L" Keane
Jerry
Kenny B.
Tea from RonItch
Schuey
Mike MacLellan
Mrs. Schuey
Seth Harrison
John Kilpatrick
32 posters

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Post  Kenny B. Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:22 am

Excellent work out you sound like you rejuvenated yourself. 7:30 pace probably your GA pace?
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Post  John Kilpatrick Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:28 am

I can't even remember honestly - it was just one of those runs where I didn't look at my Garmin until I got back to the office, so i didn't even know what my pace was. Sometimes I pay close attention to that (have paces written down at home) and others I just go...

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Post  Seth Harrison Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:03 am

John Kilpatrick wrote:Thanks Michael, Seth, Alex, Julie and Jon.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Ready to get back on the hell-horse that is triathlon training? Wink
It's funny Mike, but after a week sort of off, I am looking forward to getting back to it. I think there is something to this recovery stuff! In fact, I have a sprint tri this weekend that I wasn't going to do because it will upset my normal training regime. A buddy talked me into it, though and it will probably be fun - I haven't trained much at all for sprint type stuff, so it will be more of a fun thing to do and hopefully can improve a little from last year.

Yesterday's workout felt really good to have fresh legs and a somewhat fresh mind for.

Lunch: ran 6.15 miles at 7:30 pace. Not fast, but a hard run at about 92 degrees, 80 degree dewpoint, 70% relative humidity - not that all out hot, but a pretty oppressive humidity - air was heavy.

After work went to swim, but the pool was closed due to thunderstorms in the area, so went home and did a brick workout.
Cycled 42 miles at 22.2 mph. That is an excellent pace for me, for which I guess I have to give credit to an easy week last week. HR was reasonable (upper 130s).
Ran 3.1 miles at 7:20 pace. Pace was fair, legs didn't feel heavy at all, HR wasn't real bad (150s I think)

Getting excited about HIM (7 weeks away) and am already thinking about how to best train for a spring marathon while keeping 2012 IM in my sights. Fun stuff!

Great looking training John. There definitely is something to be said for recovery and having fresh legs. That lunchtime run in ridiculous heat and humidity was awesome.
As for this weekends sprint tri, since you're obviously not planning on going out and killing it, it should be a fun race and should not all get in the way of your normal routine. I don't get to do mid cycle races as often as I'd like, but they're usually a great way to enhance a training cycle and keep you fresh.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:35 am

Nice workouts. 7:30 sounds about right to be GA for you.

You gonna give yourself a couple easy days before the tri this weekend? Or just continue as planned and approach it like an LT brick workout?
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Post  mul21 Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:53 pm

Saw your post over in Chris' blog about mileage progression. Yours might be a little slower if you continue with the tri training, but here's what mine has been since last spring:

Spring 2010-37 mpw over 12 weeks for a HM
Fall 2010-42 mpw for Chicago
Spring 2011-52 mpw for Champaign
Fall 2011-at the end of this week (week 8/16) I'll be around 59 mpw for this cycle. I anticipate finishing somewhere around there for the cycle.

This isn't super aggressive or super conservative, but you really have to go by the way you feel. I had to back off a little a few times this spring, but I haven't hit any bumps in the road yet this cycle. There always seems to be some kind of minor setback here or there to deal with.
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Post  John Kilpatrick Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:17 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:Nice workouts. 7:30 sounds about right to be GA for you.

You gonna give yourself a couple easy days before the tri this weekend? Or just continue as planned and approach it like an LT brick workout?
Just going by feel, some hot days 7:30 feels almost impossible, and other days it feels like a good run. I also do most all of my runs (except for my Sunday long run) during my lunch hour when it is almost always 90+ with what has been high humidity. My brick runs are usually fairly short (3-5 miles).

I think I'll take it somewhat easy on Thursday and maybe even take Friday off before the Sat. race. I'm not very confident in my ability as a sprinter, but some local guys that are fairly new at running (no more so than me though) see me putting in some decent training time and assume I should be fast - so now I don't want to disappoint - weird I know...

mul21 wrote:Saw your post over in Chris' blog about mileage progression. Yours might be a little slower if you continue with the tri training, but here's what mine has been since last spring:

Spring 2010-37 mpw over 12 weeks for a HM
Fall 2010-42 mpw for Chicago
Spring 2011-52 mpw for Champaign
Fall 2011-at the end of this week (week 8/16) I'll be around 59 mpw for this cycle. I anticipate finishing somewhere around there for the cycle.

This isn't super aggressive or super conservative, but you really have to go by the way you feel. I had to back off a little a few times this spring, but I haven't hit any bumps in the road yet this cycle. There always seems to be some kind of minor setback here or there to deal with.
That's great - thanks! It looks like a 15-20% jump might be reasonable, which should stick me somewhere around 57-60 mpw - less than the 70 I was hoping to get to, but I have to operate within the bounds of what my body will allow and not just end up beaten down with injuries. You are really doing great with your running - I figured you had more running behind you - thanks again and you are another one that gives me a lot of hope going forward!!!

I haven't figured out how much cross training to incorporate this winter either, but that may cut down a little on mileage as well...

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Post  John Kilpatrick Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Swam 3,000 yds (1.7 miles) in 49:02 - 1:38/100 yds. This swimming stuff is very slowly getting a little bit easier... Pacing is staying more consistent too.

Thunderstorms pushed me to a gym this evening - rode moderate effort for 45 minutes on spin bike equivalent to about 15 miles, followed by an easy brick treadmill run of 4 miles at 8:00 pace. All in all, this evening felt like a decent recovery session.

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Post  John Kilpatrick Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:20 pm

Oh, and I forgot. I have these written down for reference, but don't follow them all that closely, other than try to make my LSD runs just that - slow (not a problem in this dad-gum heat). Based on a desired marathon pace of 7:15, a max HR of 186 and a resting heart rate of about 38, I plan on using the following for marathon training. I haven't really been focusing on any speed work at all and plan on doing that pretty sparingly this winter.
run type
pace
HRR
recovery
8:45-9:15
135-142
long
7:45-8:45
142-157
easy (GA)
7:45-8:15
149-157
steady state
6:52-7:04
161-167
tempo
6:35-6:52
164-171
tempo intervals
6:30-6:43
164-179
marathon pace
7:15
157-164
Don't know if the pacing will hold with the HR data when it cools back down, but it's a starting place anyway...

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Post  Mike MacLellan Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:09 am

Glad to see you've finally stopped sandbagging your MP. 7:15 is doable. Don't second-guess it. Just get off your bike and run more Very Happy
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Post  Alex Kubacki Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 am

Good luck in the race this weekend John. Have fun with it.
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Post  John Kilpatrick Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:48 pm

Thanks Mike and Alex - I'll be off the bike starting in October - right
about the time it will begin to cool down, so running should be a lot
more enjoyable! I don't want to sandbag, but don't want to set myself
up for failure either. If I was being totally honest, you could
probably get me to admit that I am really eyeballing 3:10 as a goal, but
that will probably be the last time I ever say that...

For today:

Lunch: ran 6.18 miles at 7:47 pace, HR 142. Didn't look at the watch,
just tried to take it easy. First time in a while it seems like that
the heat index was below 100 during midday - I think it was 99 or
something, but hey, it's an improvement!

Evening: did a brick workout at a local reservoir
swam 900 yds in 15:22, avg pace of 1:42/100 yds
cycled 24.88 miles in 1:09:10 (21.6 mph), HR 143
ran 3.17 miles in 23:46 (7:29 pace), HR 152.

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Post  Mike MacLellan Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:26 pm

I'm just gonna put this out there: when I started training for my BQ, I said I'd only mention that it was a BQ attempt ONCE. And I wasn't even sure if it was, since going from 3:30 to 3:10 seemed nuts. Chris came into my blog and basically told me to go big or go home: Make No Little Plans.

I'll be honest: the first few MP runs sucked. 4-5 miles at a 7:10 pace (I gave myself a bit of a buffer) was nearly impossible. But slowly but surely, I increasingly referred to it as my BQ attempt. And the MP runs got easier. Never easy, and I was still really wavering in confidence when I toed the line race morning, but the one thing I learned is to trust the plan. If you put in the miles, even if they feel painfully slow (I didn't go faster than 8:30 for 4 weeks), you will succeed.
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Post  jon c Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:42 am

John, it looks to me like you are progressing forward. It will be interesting to see when it finally cools a bit for you how that will play out in your training.



Might as well set your goals high. If you are typically running easy in the 7:xx range there is no reason to think that eventually you'll get to averaging 7 minute miles for a marathon if you race enough and get a feel for how your body finishes that last 10K.
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Post  T Miller Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:43 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:I'm just gonna put this out there: when I started training for my BQ, I said I'd only mention that it was a BQ attempt ONCE. And I wasn't even sure if it was, since going from 3:30 to 3:10 seemed nuts. Chris came into my blog and basically told me to go big or go home: Make No Little Plans.

I'll be honest: the first few MP runs sucked. 4-5 miles at a 7:10 pace (I gave myself a bit of a buffer) was nearly impossible. But slowly but surely, I increasingly referred to it as my BQ attempt. And the MP runs got easier. Never easy, and I was still really wavering in confidence when I toed the line race morning, but the one thing I learned is to trust the plan. If you put in the miles, even if they feel painfully slow (I didn't go faster than 8:30 for 4 weeks), you will succeed.

I've had similar experiences. At the beginning of my training cycle the 3 mile MP runs really suck and there have been times where i couldn't hold the pace. As the plan progresses they become longer and more comfortable. When race day comes, your success all boils down to having a successful taper, proper race hydration and nutrition and decent weather.
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Post  Julie Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:21 am

I agree with setting your goals high and then on race day use your good judgment. You don't want to go out too fast and then have a much slower last few miles or last half. I did that in Lincoln this May. At the half mark I finally admitted it was too fast (I knew it all along but thought maybe I just needed to push further). I had been running with the 4:05 pace team and let them go after the half mark, I was pretty close to them the next 6 miles but just couldn't stay and then around mile 22 the 4:10 pace team passed me and it was somewhat discouraging because if I had just stuck with them from the start I probably could have hung with them till the finish. Finished in 4:13.

So all that to say yes set your goals high but be realistic too. There is pretty good satisfaction in feeling good the last few miles of the marathon and still passing people up through the end...I think my best run marathon I had my fastest mile at 22 and had a slightly negative split, just 2-3 minutes but it was a good run.
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Post  John Kilpatrick Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:01 pm

Mike
- you are and have been, for whatever reason, a believer (in me) and I really
appreciate it.



jon c wrote:John, it looks to me like you are progressing forward.
It will be interesting to see when it finally cools a bit for you how that will
play out in your training.Might as well set your goals high. If you are
typically running easy in the 7:xx range there is no reason to think that
eventually you'll get to averaging 7 minute miles for a marathon if you race
enough and get a feel for how your body finishes that last 10K.
Thanks Jon - I'm interested to see what happens following my triathlon at the
end of Sep and I can focus on just running...


T Miller wrote:
I've had similar experiences. At the beginning of my training cycle the 3 mile
MP runs really suck and there have been times where i couldn't hold the pace.
As the plan progresses they become longer and more comfortable. When race day
comes, your success all boils down to having a successful taper, proper race
hydration and nutrition and decent weather.
Thanks Tim - don't mean it as disrespectful, but it's good to hear that even a
runner such as yourself has days where a run seems impossibly hard...

Julie wrote:So all that to say yes set your goals high but be
realistic too.
That is it in a nutshell - defining what is a goal and what is a dream!


Rode 22 easy miles on Thursday and took Friday off. Raced in a local
sprint triathlon Saturday morning (cut and pasted report from race reports
below). Had a good time and did something weird to my glute in the
process. Somewhere in the swim to running up a hill to get to my bike it
happened, but it is feeling better now - not good, but better. Swelling
is down I think (its really hard to look at your own butt) and I have more
movement in my left leg (the leg that always seems to be hurt or
healing). I'll try to do an easy run tomorrow at lunch, but skipped
planned workouts for Sat. afternoon and today. Feel like a bum, but am
trying to be smart about this. 7 weeks to Augusta and I don't want to
ruin the race...





I lost my timing chip in the race (probably got snatched off in the swim start), but I sort of guessed at them based on where a friend was (we ended up not too far apart for each section).

Swim: 400 yds in 6:24, pace = 1:36/100 yds

T1: 1:50 (sort of slow, but included was a longish run to the transition area)

cycle: 13.6 miles in 32:45, pace - 24.9 mph

T2: 40 seconds

Run: 5K in 19:45, pace = 6:21

Swim
start was the usual free-for-all. I started in the front row and came
out I think 3rd or 4th of my group despite a lot of kicking, smacking,
and getting kicked and whacked by others. It sucks, but it sort of
funny at the same time (see above video). It was awesome this year to
not get passed on the bike leg. As I was in the second wave, so it was
sort of fun to have a bunch of people in front of me as targets to try
to catch and pass if I could. I was really surprised at how well the
bike leg went - it is also nice to pretty much be over the feeling of
having jello legs when I hop off of the bike to begin the run. The run
was sort of boring - not a lot of people in front, so not a lot of
targets to try to catch. I heard one guy coming from behind me that
ended up passing me and being the #2 overall - I looked to see if it was
Tim, but it wasn't Laughing.

Overall time was 1:01:24, good for 4th overall and 1st masters division (aka, old people's division). I think there were 340 finishers.

Coming around the last turn...
[img]uphill climb - Page 8 Dsc06711[/img]

finishers medal was REALLY important to one member of "team Kilpatrick"
[img]uphill climb - Page 8 Dsc06712[/img]

Whew...glad that's over!
[img]uphill climb - Page 8 Dsc06713[/img]

It's been a long morning, Dad...
[img]uphill climb - Page 8 Dsc06714[/img]

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Post  mul21 Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:14 pm

First, nice job on the tri, pretty huge improvement from last year.

Second, Mike and Tim are 100% right. Early in a cycle, if the goal MP isn't a bit difficult, you're probably not setting your sights high enough. I had 2 longish MP runs last cycle and hurt for a couple day after both and they were both tough. The only thing that kept me from hitting my goal was a nasty headwind. If you put in the miles, there's no doubt you can go under 3:10.
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Post  Chris M Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:27 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:I'm just gonna put this out there: when I started training for my BQ, I said I'd only mention that it was a BQ attempt ONCE. And I wasn't even sure if it was, since going from 3:30 to 3:10 seemed nuts. Chris came into my blog and basically told me to go big or go home: Make No Little Plans.

I'll be honest: the first few MP runs sucked. 4-5 miles at a 7:10 pace (I gave myself a bit of a buffer) was nearly impossible. But slowly but surely, I increasingly referred to it as my BQ attempt. And the MP runs got easier. Never easy, and I was still really wavering in confidence when I toed the line race morning, but the one thing I learned is to trust the plan. If you put in the miles, even if they feel painfully slow (I didn't go faster than 8:30 for 4 weeks), you will succeed.

Ha ha...I remember it well. I'm paraphrasing my Coach (Dave) here but if your goal MP ever becomes something you are 100% totally confident and comfortable with and you have zero doubts you can do 26.2 of them....then you are a sandbagging (insert colorful word). Go jog for fitness if that's the way you want to run. Mike's nothing like that and neither are you, John. Set hard (impossible? no, hard) to reach goals and go get em and/or flame out while attacking them over and over again. Doesn't that sound fun?! The crazy ones actually say "yeah, kinda"
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Post  John Kilpatrick Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:31 pm

Yeah, kinda

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Post  Mark B Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:04 pm

You're too modest, John. First masters, fourth overall? That's fantastic! Great job.

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Post  Julie Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:41 am

that is an awesome race! Glad your family could be there, too. Congrats on the win!!
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Post  T Miller Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:25 am

WOW John, that's effin fantastic. I told you that you were going to kill it out there. You're extremely strong in every discipline. I can't wait to hear how your HIM goes. 6:24 swim is fantastic and 24.9 MPH on the bike is FAST and a sign that your HIM is going to be a great day. Your running is tremendous too with a sub 20 5k at the end. WOW, Just wow and I'm glad you like the Zoots.
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Post  Schuey Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:59 am

John again I'm not surprised at how well you did in your Tri! There is no doubt the training you have been putting payed off for you. Just awesome and it will interesting to see how great you do in you Half coming up.

As for the BQ I think that this cycle of training for the Tri will help as far as keeping you fresh and doing other sports. When it does come down to it and you are just focused on your running and getting that BQ again I will not be surprised when not only you get your BQ but when you blow it out of the water.

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Post  John Kilpatrick Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:05 am

mul21 wrote:First, nice job on the tri, pretty huge improvement from last year.
Second, Mike and Tim are 100% right. Early in a cycle, if the goal MP isn't a bit difficult, you're probably not setting your sights high enough.
Thanks Jim. I was surprised myself that I was able to drop about 10 minutes from last year. And don't be a p*#%y on setting a goal MP - got it... You make me nervous!

Chris M wrote:if your goal MP ever becomes something you are 100% totally confident and comfortable with and you have zero doubts you can do 26.2 of them....then you are a sandbagging (insert colorful word).
Thanks Chris - you make me nervous too! I need that....

Mark B wrote:You're too modest, John. First masters, fourth overall? That's fantastic! Great job.
Thanks Mark!

Julie wrote:that is an awesome race! Glad your family could be there, too. Congrats on the win!!
Thanks Julie - always great to have the family there. I always look for my little fan club when I come in for transitions or at the end...

T Miller wrote:WOW John, that's effin fantastic. I told you that you were going to kill it out there. You're extremely strong in every discipline. I can't wait to hear how your HIM goes. 6:24 swim is fantastic and 24.9 MPH on the bike is FAST and a sign that your HIM is going to be a great day. Your running is tremendous too with a sub 20 5k at the end. WOW, Just wow and I'm glad you like the Zoots.

Thanks a lot Tim - it is sort of incredible that I guess adrenaline kicks in during a race and you are able to find a second gear. The cool thing is that we are both sort of new at this and it gives hope that things can get maybe even a little better for the both of us! Less than a year ago, a major goal of mine was to run a stand-alone 5K in 20 minutes... And the zoots are really comfy to run in too! I was most impressed with a 16 year old girl from Florida who ran her 5K in 16:48!

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Post  Mike MacLellan Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:19 pm

The glasses make another (sneaky) appearance!
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