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uphill climb

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Randy E on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:33 am

John, I agree with what Kenny is saying.
Also, I re-read your post. Motivation is not an issue for you. But, restraint and focus might be. When I look at the miles you are putting in I continue to think that you are training for a FULL Ironman distance event vs a 1/2 IM. You over distance train all the time. If you got a 1/2 IM training plan and followed it you would probably blow the doors off. You would have tons of energy.
One last thing, is there some reason you are running 20 milers. Do you have a marathon coming up?
There is a method to the madness.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Kenny B. on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:42 am

@Randy E wrote:John, I agree with what Kenny is saying.
Also, I re-read your post. Motivation is not an issue for you. But, restraint and focus might be. When I look at the miles you are putting in I continue to think that you are training for a FULL Ironman distance event vs a 1/2 IM. You over distance train all the time. If you got a 1/2 IM training plan and followed it you would probably blow the doors off. You would have tons of energy.
One last thing, is there some reason you are running 20 milers. Do you have a marathon coming up?
There is a method to the madness.

Maybe I am rubbing off on him. I ran 3 marathons in 21 days while training for a HM. Venture to say I did not PR at the HM. Not a good recipe. But I knew that going in.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Julie on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:02 pm

When is your Augusta race?

The heat is hard on all of us, and it's hard to think about running a good race when the long runs are so tough but I really think they just make us tougher if you don't let me ruin your confidence. Not like I'm an expert but every June I ask "how did I get so out of shape and slow?" because I'm trying to adjust to the heat and then in Sept/Oct I think "wow, how did running get so easy?" and it's just weather.

I hear you on the long run/church issue. Our church switched to a later service time during the summer so I can still fit my long runs in and be back in time. win-win situation except I'm so tired.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:15 pm

@Schuey wrote:I'm a little late to the party on this but don't sweat the missing 2 miles of a 22 mile run. In that type of heat that 20 mile run is more like running 25 to 27 miles period! I can't tell you how many times I have cut a run short, had abad run, changed a run, etc. etc. etc.. Things happen but again your run in my mind was a huge success!

If anything you should be proud of yourself that you had the sense to know it was time to call it quits on a day like that and that you listen to your body. Again great run and job well done. See I learned something from you how to be "MENTAL TOUGH" on a long run on a HOT HOT DAY!

Thanks - I think I will just take the have a short memory approach to that run... Lessons learned include more water, more electrolytes, run earlier, don't sweat it if things don't go as planned. It helps to know you've had similar runs...

@Randy E wrote:John, we all continue to learn as we go along. I can't tell you how often I have actually thought the same thing as you regarding long runs and marathon performance. I've thought many a time,"how can I run a fast marathon ( 26.2 miles ) if a long slow 20 miler feels hard?" Well, guess what, it just happens. Trust the process. Also, when you are doing these long runs make sure you are running them slowly. There are scientific reasons for this.
Regarding your so called bonk, next time you are going to run long on a hot day supplement with sodium. Electrolytes play a huge role in performance on a hot sweaty day. If you consume too much water you can be flushing out sodium and that can be detrimental to your performance. Also, instead of water try drinking more sports drinks.

Again, if you've had the same feeling, then I don't feel so bad... As for running slower on the long runs - good reminder... Next time doing a longish run I'll stash some more sports drinks - I've been drinking Powerbars ironman drink - your right, it is good stuff.

@Ken Mello wrote:The fact that you are training hard in the summer AT ALL is amazing. For me, summer is "down time" where I just focus on based, and dont try to accomplish much. You should see the positive of what you are doing, in tough conditions.
Thanks Ken - my hope is this will pay off down the road...

@Randy E wrote:John, I agree with what Kenny is saying.
Also, I re-read your post. Motivation is not an issue for you. But, restraint and focus might be. When I look at the miles you are putting in I continue to think that you are training for a FULL Ironman distance event vs a 1/2 IM. You over distance train all the time. If you got a 1/2 IM training plan and followed it you would probably blow the doors off. You would have tons of energy.
One last thing, is there some reason you are running 20 milers. Do you have a marathon coming up?
There is a method to the madness.
This is why I missed you over here - you've been there and done that. I have never been good at anything athletically in my life and I guess is what motivates me to want to do "well" (whatever that is?). I hope I am not screwing my training all up, but my thoughts with over distancing is that, come race day, I will be able to perform the best I can. I have tried to stay on top of long runs for building endurance for my HIM and also because I want to be able to jump into marathon training this fall/winter and maybe (hopefully) improve on my marathon PR and even have a shot at Boston (thanks Mike for your confidence in me for that!)



@Kenny B. wrote:

Maybe I am rubbing off on him. I ran 3 marathons in 21 days while training for a HM. Venture to say I did not PR at the HM. Not a good recipe. But I knew that going in.

That is NUTS Kenny. I'm basically the village idiot here, but even I could figure out that might be a bit much for a HM!!! Wink

@Julie wrote:When is your Augusta race?

The heat is hard on all of us, and it's hard to think about running a good race when the long runs are so tough but I really think they just make us tougher if you don't let me ruin your confidence. Not like I'm an expert but every June I ask "how did I get so out of shape and slow?" because I'm trying to adjust to the heat and then in Sept/Oct I think "wow, how did running get so easy?" and it's just weather.

I hear you on the long run/church issue. Our church switched to a later service time during the summer so I can still fit my long runs in and be back in time. win-win situation except I'm so tired.

Thanks Julie and good reminder - maybe all of this will help out for next spring's marathon! The Augusta half ironman is September 25....

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:49 pm

Just thought of this, John... Did you ever read Joe Friel's Triathlete's Bible? If not, here's the basic rundown of his approach to periodization...

Since you're still a couple months out from September, all these base hours on the bike and run (I'd hope most of these paces are "easy" for you, anyway...) are exactly what he recommends right now, but soon, I'd echo Randy's cautioning against over-distancing. I mean, hell, Friel technically only recommends that your longest run/ride is the same distance as the tri you're competing in.

Once you enter your build phase (which would be soon, according to Friel; generally it's 6-8 weeks long, total - but can be up to 12 weeks - with 1 recovery week every 3-4 weeks [2:1 for a 6 week build, 3:1 for an 8 week build]) you'll cut back a bit on total volume (from 15-16 hour weeks to, say, 11-12ish [or less]) and increase intensity, working in more time at/around LT as well as race pace. At that time, you'll want to start incorporating a lot of brick workouts, too, even if that just means a 1-mile run after every bike ride.

Peaking is 1-2 weeks of basically a race-effort workout (but much shorter) every 72-96 hours with purely recovery workouts in between (just enough to get the blood moving, but nothing to tire out your body or muscles).

Just something to think about; I was in exactly the same place you are regarding wanting to "do well" when I started endurance sports. I ended up overtrained and injured. Trust the programs that have worked for others, and don't worry about doing too little. The body responds incredibly well when you place just enough stress on it to allow for ample recovery and improvement.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Kenny B. on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:40 pm

[quote="John Kilpatrick"]


@Kenny B. wrote:

Maybe I am rubbing off on him. I ran 3 marathons in 21 days while training for a HM. Venture to say I did not PR at the HM. Not a good recipe. But I knew that going in.

That is NUTS Kenny. I'm basically the village idiot here, but even I could figure out that might be a bit much for a HM!!! Wink

@Julie wrote:

I did PR the course by 5 minutes and only a Minutes and only a minute off PR time. But, way off Goal time. bounce
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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:37 pm

Monday: Ran 5 miles at high noon at 7:55 pace. Thought it was a "recovery" run, but I am going to try running those slower... Evening, swam 4,000 yds at 1:44/100 yds pace.

Tuesday: Felt good for my lunch run and decided to push it a little bit - another steamy day, but ran 5.55 miles at a 6:53 pace. Heart was pounding in the heat but it felt good afterwards. Evening - wife was working, so I missed out on my evening ride. It was good to hang out with my boy though! We cooked dinner, cleaned up his room (it was a team effort), did dishes, laundry, cleaned him up, read a nighttime story, etc... Afterwards, I rode hard on my bike trainer for 31 minutes. I gave myself permission to enjoy the rest of the evening without feeling too beat down - I love air conditioning!!!

I had told my son about Rhondda earlier and he (5 yrs old) prayed for her tonight. He wanted to know if she would be OK and I told him that I'm sure his prayers would help!!!

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brick day

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:22 pm

Did my usual brick workout at a local reservoir this evening. The weather felt great tonight despite the fact that it was 97 out. Weird. Anyway, it was a good workout that I didn't feel I had to push too hard, but was at a "comfortably uncomfortable" pace.

Swim: 1.2 miles, 38:30 (1:49/100 yd pace) - I'm feeling a little more comfortable sighting with my open water swimming which is nice...
Cycle: 25.1 miles, 1:12:48 (20.6 mph) - this course is fairly technical with a lot of turns and small hills. Nice ride through mostly neighborhoods and NO DOGS tonight. Yeah!!!!
Run: 4.5 miles, 32:50 (7:18 pace) - nice run through a state park. I didn't feel bad at the finish which is nice. I actually left my Garmin at home, so just ran and looked at the time when I finished. Legs really felt great coming off the bike. Brick work is getting easier which is good!

I drank a combination of sports drink and water today and ate a banana before the workout. It wasn't a real long workout so maybe not the best evaluation, but I didn't feel bonky at all...


As an afternote - I thought I would try some of that Gatorade "recover" stuff that I've seen in the stores after my workout. BLLEEEECCHHHHH. That stuff is absolutely wretched Shocked . I like the regular old gatorade, but that was just plain nasty!

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Seth Harrison on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:30 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:

I had told my son about Rhondda earlier and he (5 yrs old) prayed for her tonight. He wanted to know if she would be OK and I told him that I'm sure his prayers would help!!!

That's really precious John.

I'm totally impressed with your training. Your workout today in 97 degree temps was awesome. You're getting some great advice from others here regarding your triathlon training. It's great to read along and learn.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:50 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Just thought of this, John... Did you ever read Joe Friel's Triathlete's Bible? If not, here's the basic rundown of his approach to periodization...

Since you're still a couple months out from September, all these base hours on the bike and run (I'd hope most of these paces are "easy" for you, anyway...) are exactly what he recommends right now, but soon, I'd echo Randy's cautioning against over-distancing. I mean, hell, Friel technically only recommends that your longest run/ride is the same distance as the tri you're competing in.

Once you enter your build phase (which would be soon, according to Friel; generally it's 6-8 weeks long, total - but can be up to 12 weeks - with 1 recovery week every 3-4 weeks [2:1 for a 6 week build, 3:1 for an 8 week build]) you'll cut back a bit on total volume (from 15-16 hour weeks to, say, 11-12ish [or less]) and increase intensity, working in more time at/around LT as well as race pace. At that time, you'll want to start incorporating a lot of brick workouts, too, even if that just means a 1-mile run after every bike ride.

Peaking is 1-2 weeks of basically a race-effort workout (but much shorter) every 72-96 hours with purely recovery workouts in between (just enough to get the blood moving, but nothing to tire out your body or muscles).

Just something to think about; I was in exactly the same place you are regarding wanting to "do well" when I started endurance sports. I ended up overtrained and injured. Trust the programs that have worked for others, and don't worry about doing too little. The body responds incredibly well when you place just enough stress on it to allow for ample recovery and improvement.

Thanks for the summary Mike - I ordered the book today! Part of the overdistancing with me I think is confidence building (which I need plenty of). Maybe what I lose or risk hurting in performance will be gained mentally (another knife edge I know). I do know what you are cautioning against - I did the same thing in marathon training and started to bust myself up at what is a pretty pedestrian 50 mpw. Not that I know what to expect (I don't), but I have actually been a lot more injury free this training cycle probably b/c of the cycling hours instead of the running hours. My body is pretty much telling me that the volume I'm at now is OK, but can't take more - not because of injuries, but b/c I can feel it when I start to really grind down.

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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:59 pm

@Seth Harrison wrote:
@John Kilpatrick wrote:

I had told my son about Rhondda earlier and he (5 yrs old) prayed for her tonight. He wanted to know if she would be OK and I told him that I'm sure his prayers would help!!!

That's really precious John.

I'm totally impressed with your training. Your workout today in 97 degree temps was awesome. You're getting some great advice from others here regarding your triathlon training. It's great to read along and learn.

Thanks - I stay half confused on what to do, but try to soak it in.. I've learned a lot from your blog as well. My workouts are not impressive - running 70 mph is. Running 160 miles in a week is beyond my comprehension. Holy crap....

I am totally blessed with a great child. I love his 5-year old innocence and outlook on everything. It won't take long before the world starts to beat it out of him, but I really enjoy seeing the world through his eyes right now - everything is great, everyone loves him and he loves everyone! He is already growing up too fast!!!

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:50 pm

John, I love reading about how much you love your son...it just oozes out of the post and you can tell he's marinated in love.

What an absolutely sweet thing he did for Rhondda, thank you for sharing that story. It reminded me of the song, "I've Been Watching You" by Rodney Atkins..have you heard that song?

Re: Gatorade series....we use the Gatorade 02 (Perform) and it takes a bit of getting use to. The aftertaste is a bit rough, but it works good. I have yet to try the 01 and 03...Regular Gatorade works for me too!
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Re: uphill climb

Post  ChasMcG on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 am

Well 2012 is going to be one hell of a year for you. Ironman. Damn! That's awesome!

Stay focused and you'll kill this!
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Re: uphill climb

Post  mul21 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:02 pm

After reading your post in the intro thread, I can't help but come in here and make a recommendation to you. Based on your marathon time and what your goals are, I have to think you're running most of your runs waaaaaaay too fast. That 4.5 miler you did the other night probably could have easily been at 8:30-9:00 pace and not been too slow. I just ran 3:16 and most of my shorter runs are recovery in the 9:00 range per mile and my longer runs are in the 8:10-8:30 range. My tempo runs are just at or under 7:00 pace. I just fear that if you keep doing so many runs at such a fast pace, you'll end up injured or over trained. That 20 miler where you bonked a bit may have been partially avoided by slowing down a bit in the earlier miles or earlier in the week. Just something to think about and something I had a hard time reconciling when I started running again myself.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:18 pm

@mul21 wrote:After reading your post in the intro thread, I can't help but come in here and make a recommendation to you. Based on your marathon time and what your goals are, I have to think you're running most of your runs waaaaaaay too fast. That 4.5 miler you did the other night probably could have easily been at 8:30-9:00 pace and not been too slow. I just ran 3:16 and most of my shorter runs are recovery in the 9:00 range per mile and my longer runs are in the 8:10-8:30 range. My tempo runs are just at or under 7:00 pace. I just fear that if you keep doing so many runs at such a fast pace, you'll end up injured or over trained. That 20 miler where you bonked a bit may have been partially avoided by slowing down a bit in the earlier miles or earlier in the week. Just something to think about and something I had a hard time reconciling when I started running again myself.

Thinking the same thing, Jim. That's why I told him he's got a LOT faster marathon in him than he thinks if he can sustain those paces through a training cycle.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Schuey on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:08 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@mul21 wrote:After reading your post in the intro thread, I can't help but come in here and make a recommendation to you. Based on your marathon time and what your goals are, I have to think you're running most of your runs waaaaaaay too fast. That 4.5 miler you did the other night probably could have easily been at 8:30-9:00 pace and not been too slow. I just ran 3:16 and most of my shorter runs are recovery in the 9:00 range per mile and my longer runs are in the 8:10-8:30 range. My tempo runs are just at or under 7:00 pace. I just fear that if you keep doing so many runs at such a fast pace, you'll end up injured or over trained. That 20 miler where you bonked a bit may have been partially avoided by slowing down a bit in the earlier miles or earlier in the week. Just something to think about and something I had a hard time reconciling when I started running again myself.

Thinking the same thing, Jim. That's why I told him he's got a LOT faster marathon in him than he thinks if he can sustain those paces through a training cycle.

First off solid training and the book Mike has recommended is a good one I have it here at home. There was a time I kicked around doing a full ironman, I have no desire to do a sprint or half but I would like to qualify for Hawaii and do it just to say I did it.
As for what Jim has said I do agree with him but at the same time I don't. I think I had posted about this in Mike's blog about recovery days. I use to have off days planned and I use to have recovery days planned. Now these days I don't have either planned. I believe that we all recover differently and our bodies can handle different loads of stress. So if you can do the runs at the paces you are doing them at and then you do your quality work or other workouts for your tri and you are feeling fresh then go for it. But if you are feeling sluggish on your runs or sluggish on your training elements or quality workouts then you need to back off and allow you body to recover.
The bottom line is I will do all my training by feel so if the body needs to run at recovery pace I allow my body to run at that pace and i don't push. Heck if I get out there and I'm running at recovery pace and that isn't working and I don't feel good or dead, I just stop the run and walk home and take the day off. Another thing you can do to monitor this which I also do is I watch my morning resting HR. If my resting HR in the morning is 5 beats or higher then normal I start to think about changing my workout to recovery or taking a day off. All about listening to my body. If you do this you have to take your resting HR in the morning for 5 days to get a baseline to work off. Just my 2 cents on the subject and I'm not saying I'm right but this is what has worked for me.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:13 pm

@mul21 wrote:After reading your post in the intro thread, I can't help but come in here and make a recommendation to you. Based on your marathon time and what your goals are, I have to think you're running most of your runs waaaaaaay too fast. That 4.5 miler you did the other night probably could have easily been at 8:30-9:00 pace and not been too slow. I just ran 3:16 and most of my shorter runs are recovery in the 9:00 range per mile and my longer runs are in the 8:10-8:30 range. My tempo runs are just at or under 7:00 pace. I just fear that if you keep doing so many runs at such a fast pace, you'll end up injured or over trained. That 20 miler where you bonked a bit may have been partially avoided by slowing down a bit in the earlier miles or earlier in the week. Just something to think about and something I had a hard time reconciling when I started running again myself.

Ugh... Thanks to you, Randy, Ken, and Mike, I'm rethinking what I'm doing. I took a look at the McMillan recommendations based on my best 10K (40:56) time (I don't know why I've never done that before - I've just looked at predicted race times), and I see what you are talking about. I guess I don't really do tempo runs or true recovery runs - I just sometimes run hard and sometimes not so hard. My long runs are in the ball park, but I don't know if I could hit a 7:50 pace for a long run right now if I wanted to (maybe the heat isn't helping matters). I like to practice humping it a liitle off the bike, but I am going to work in some recovery runs (8:50-9:20) and see how they feel. Thanks for relating that you struggle(d) with it too... Nice to know I'm not the only one that is or was confused by it all sometimes...

For today: ran 4.55 miles during lunch at 7:24 pace. Had to cut it short today due to time constraints...

PM - cycled 30.1 miles at 20.4 mph.

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Schuey on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:21 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:Ugh... Thanks to you, Randy, Ken, and Mike, I'm rethinking what I'm doing. I took a look at the McMillan recommendations based on my best 10K (40:56) time (I don't know why I've never done that before - I've just looked at predicted race times), and I see what you are talking about. I guess I don't really do tempo runs or true recovery runs - I just sometimes run hard and sometimes not so hard. My long runs are in the ball park, but I don't know if I could hit a 7:50 pace for a long run right now if I wanted to (maybe the heat isn't helping matters). I like to practice humping it a liitle off the bike, but I am going to work in some recovery runs (8:50-9:20) and see how they feel. Thanks for relating that you struggle(d) with it too... Nice to know I'm not the only one that is or was confused by it all sometimes...

For today: ran 4.55 miles during lunch at 7:24 pace. Had to cut it short today due to time constraints...

PM - cycled 30.1 miles at 20.4 mph.

I don't think there is anything about rethink about what your doing, I think that there are somethings that you do need to change. But again even thought I stated it above about running paces let me add this to you. Yes we are different runners and at different stages and are training for different events. Most of my runs are at my G.A or Easy pace. I do do some recovery runs but like I said above only when I feel like I need them. I have found that for me I have made big gains by doing more of my runs at my easy/G.A. pace. Now that is me and it could be different for you. Also if you are running only once a day I think that you can get away with running your runs at an easy/G.A. pace. Then again I'm not training for a Tri either so I don't know how the other training effects you. Again just something to think about.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:23 pm

@Schuey wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@mul21 wrote:After reading your post in the intro thread, I can't help but come in here and make a recommendation to you. Based on your marathon time and what your goals are, I have to think you're running most of your runs waaaaaaay too fast. That 4.5 miler you did the other night probably could have easily been at 8:30-9:00 pace and not been too slow. I just ran 3:16 and most of my shorter runs are recovery in the 9:00 range per mile and my longer runs are in the 8:10-8:30 range. My tempo runs are just at or under 7:00 pace. I just fear that if you keep doing so many runs at such a fast pace, you'll end up injured or over trained. That 20 miler where you bonked a bit may have been partially avoided by slowing down a bit in the earlier miles or earlier in the week. Just something to think about and something I had a hard time reconciling when I started running again myself.

Thinking the same thing, Jim. That's why I told him he's got a LOT faster marathon in him than he thinks if he can sustain those paces through a training cycle.

First off solid training and the book Mike has recommended is a good one I have it here at home. There was a time I kicked around doing a full ironman, I have no desire to do a sprint or half but I would like to qualify for Hawaii and do it just to say I did it.
As for what Jim has said I do agree with him but at the same time I don't. I think I had posted about this in Mike's blog about recovery days. I use to have off days planned and I use to have recovery days planned. Now these days I don't have either planned. I believe that we all recover differently and our bodies can handle different loads of stress. So if you can do the runs at the paces you are doing them at and then you do your quality work or other workouts for your tri and you are feeling fresh then go for it. But if you are feeling sluggish on your runs or sluggish on your training elements or quality workouts then you need to back off and allow you body to recover.
The bottom line is I will do all my training by feel so if the body needs to run at recovery pace I allow my body to run at that pace and i don't push. Heck if I get out there and I'm running at recovery pace and that isn't working and I don't feel good or dead, I just stop the run and walk home and take the day off. Another thing you can do to monitor this which I also do is I watch my morning resting HR. If my resting HR in the morning is 5 beats or higher then normal I start to think about changing my workout to recovery or taking a day off. All about listening to my body. If you do this you have to take your resting HR in the morning for 5 days to get a baseline to work off. Just my 2 cents on the subject and I'm not saying I'm right but this is what has worked for me.

Thanks Schuey. The only way I'll ever be at Kona is as a spectator, but that is OK. I'm just going to do my best and let the chips fall where they may. To simply complete an IM is either a bucket list thing or something that I want to prove to part the part of me that says I can't that I can... I think what you have is by many moons of listening to what your body is telling you - I'm still learning it's language. I like the idea of having enough freedom and confidence in yourself to modify your workouts to what makes sense for you. The HR thing is interesting - I actually checked mine this morning based on the article Randy posted and mine was a little high for me. I'm going to start paying closer attention to it in the future....

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Re: uphill climb

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:32 pm

@Schuey wrote:
I don't think there is anything about rethink about what your doing, I think that there are somethings that you do need to change. But again even thought I stated it above about running paces let me add this to you. Yes we are different runners and at different stages and are training for different events. Most of my runs are at my G.A or Easy pace. I do do some recovery runs but like I said above only when I feel like I need them. I have found that for me I have made big gains by doing more of my runs at my easy/G.A. pace. Now that is me and it could be different for you. Also if you are running only once a day I think that you can get away with running your runs at an easy/G.A. pace. Then again I'm not training for a Tri either so I don't know how the other training effects you. Again just something to think about.


Also good to know - somewhere upstairs I have always felt as if I was cheating myself by running at what McMillan considers "easy pace", which for me would be 7:50-8:20, if I could do better. Now that I'm doing more and longer workouts (long for me anyway), I see the need to save some gas in the tank for harder workouts.... I am going to try doing recovery runs, but on the surface they almost seem uncomfortably slow...

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weekend

Post  John Kilpatrick on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Friday - took the day off

Saturday - had ideal conditions for an afternoon ride, which for here was a slight wind and 93 degrees. Felt good to lay on the bars and just turn the cranks. Effort felt moderate overall. Got home and chugged a big glass of milk - probably a mistake b/c I ralphed soon thereafter Razz - but recovered pretty quickly. The only issue I had was an argument that was ongoing between a pair of cycling shorts that I've never worn on a long ride and the taint, despite the careful placement of body glide. The pad in them is big enough for a moose's ass, and apparently it did not help! I don't usually use as much sports drink or gels, but I drank a good bit of the ironman gatorade knockoff and choked down three gels. I think they helped...
79.55 miles at 21.0 mph (3:47:15).

Sunday - wore a running watch, but tried not to look at it and just run whatever easy felt like. Run felt a heck of a lot better than long run last week, but was shorter and not as hot out (76-85 degrees). Again - tried drinking more sports drink stuff than I usually do and slurped down one gel during the run. I don't know if it helped or not, but I definitely had a little in the tank at the end of this run.
15.19 miles at an avg pace of 8:07 overall. Avg HR was 135.

run data:
MileDistanceTimeHR
11.008:21121
21.008:19125
31.008:20128
41.008:12129
51.008:13129
61.008:15128
71.008:17131
81.008:22133
91.008:10136
101.008:14135
111.008:09138
121.008:04138
131.008:01144
141.007:40151
151.007:14161
160.198:17159


I will have to take it a little bit easy this week due to my wife's work schedule, but it makes a good excuse to not be too burned out for my 10K on the 4th.

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Re: uphill climb

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Now THAT'S what an LSD run looks like. Coming in with something left in the tank, despite that speedy last mile, keeping your pace nice and steady.

And I'm still in awe of your rides. I can see doing 20-22 for maybe 2 hours (with aerobars), but for close to 80 miles? You've definitely got a great base going on the bike, and I expect you'll be cranking out some awesome times on your HIM.

Yes, use this as a stepback week. If you don't already know your 10k pace, I'd use one of your runs early in the week (Wednesday at the latest) to figure out what pace corresponds to "comfortably hard," which should theoretically be your lactate threshold. Then on race day, subtract 10 seconds from that pace and run. Pick it up on the last 5k if you've got it left in the tank.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  mul21 on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:53 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Now THAT'S what an LSD run looks like. Coming in with something left in the tank, despite that speedy last mile, keeping your pace nice and steady.


Took the words right out of my mouth. Perfect LSD with a nice strong finish!
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Kenny B. on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:03 pm

Great run and by the heart rate looks very good with not much drift.
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Re: uphill climb

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:28 pm

WOW! That is a really, really great looking long run John! The paces were nice and even and at a nice clip, with a nice HR. Way to go!! I commend you for running so strong in the heat. I'm both amazed and inspired by how hard you train. Keep up the great work!
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Re: uphill climb

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