What pace for 30K?

I'm thinking of doing a 30K on March 4. It's in MA and many use it as a tuneup to Boston. My goal marathon is about 6 weeks after Boston so it's more a training run than a tuneup. It's a very hilly course.

It'd be 4 weeks into my marathon cycle although I had base building before that. I'd be coming off back to back 20M long run weeks and I don't plan to taper. However, I don't really want to go just to do a LSD. I was kind of thinking that my goal MP is about 7:50 so I'd run this around 8:00. What do you think, too fast or ok? Thanks.

IMO, if the goal race is of similar topography as the March 4 30K, I'd run it at race pace. If the 30K is hillier than the goal marathon, 8:00 would be fast enough to me, but you're a whole lot faster than I.

I might consider moving one of the 20 milers to the week after the race (20m, 30K, 20m), just to give your muscles a slight break.

How about running based on feel / effort?

I say this because I would hate for you to get down on the pace you are able to maintain so early in a training cycle. Say you go out at goal pace (which is agressive IMO) and fail. Will that derail your training? Make you train harder and increase risk of injury?

By simply going out and running an effort that feels manageable on the day you won't have the unecessary expectations this early in the training.

Just my two cents

A race is a race, always.

Go by effort. I'd start it easy and make it a fast finish; 50% LSD, 25% MP, 25% up to tempo, if you can.

I'd either run it a marathon pace or race it (and a 30K for me would be somewhere between MP and HMP). The other choice which I employ often in marathon training is to run 3/4 of the race at MP and then finish fast.

When I don't go by feel I regret it and end up with terribly positive splits so I vote go by feel and see how the day turns out.

7:38 pace for a goal time of 2:22:19. Yes, it is still early in your training cycle but you have the speed and need to start testing how the endurance will hold up. Will you hit it? Well, if you do, I'd say you are golden for May and running a 7:50 paced BQ. More likely at this early stage is you will hold that kind of pace through 13+ and maybe start to bleed some time late and that will be good practice too as you try and minimize the damage to the finishing time. But no matter what you end up doing, I would not recommend doing any kind of fast finish that goes below 7:38 pace. This is a race to work on endurance, not pure speed. Save the faster stuff for 5Ks or the 15K you have coming up. If you want to truly test yourself, see how many miles you can nail at 7:38 before the wheels come off.

I'm not sure the course would allow me to hammer from the beginning. I'll definitely go by feel. I agree it's a nice early test. Here is the profile. Total evevation change is about 2,200 FT with half going up and half going down.

Alex Kubacki wrote:I'm thinking of doing a 30K on March 4. It's in MA and many use it as a tuneup to Boston. My goal marathon is about 6 weeks after Boston so it's more a training run than a tuneup. It's a very hilly course.

It'd be 4 weeks into my marathon cycle although I had base building before that. I'd be coming off back to back 20M long run weeks and I don't plan to taper. However, I don't really want to go just to do a LSD. I was kind of thinking that my goal MP is about 7:50 so I'd run this around 8:00. What do you think, too fast or ok? Thanks.

Well Alex for me there is a couple of things that come to mind. I think that both of these workouts could felt well for a 30k run and also for were you are at in your training especially with the fact that you will have 3 weeks before hand to actually incorporate these runs if they are not normal staples of your training plan.

1. Thirds Progression Run: This could felt in very well with what you want to do. You say you don't want to race but you don't want to have just another LSD run. So this could be a great option for you. Run the the first 3rd Easy another words use the this section of the 30k as a warm-up and to get loose. The middle 3rd run this at medium effort, this should be more intense than the first 3rd but not over taxing. The last 3rd run medium to hard. This is were you can no gage how you feel and were you are at in your training. Again also how your body and legs are feeling on this day. If you feel great you can start to crank the effort down to MP and and faster.
If you are not feeling all that great just keep it at a good medium effort and you still end up having a great workout over a tough course but yet you didn't just do another LSD run. Also this type of run is going to help you build endurance and stamina.

2. Fartlek/Cruise Intervals: This option would be a little more intense than the above. So this is something you could play by ear and as to how you feel on the day of the 30k. The nice thing is that this run starts out as the same as above Easy. I guess for you would have to tweak this workout around the distance of the race. When I do this workout I will normally warm-up for 15-30mins than do the meat of the workout and than cool-down for 15 to 30 mins.
So back to the workout start the 30k easy to warm-up and also to see how you feel. If you feel like you want to choose to do this workout than you can and you have two options on how to do it. You can do it as Cruise Intervals of 4 to 8 1000m (.62 of a mile) then recovery jog 1:30. Than 3 x 200m (.12 of a mile) with recovery 200m between each. Than cool down to the finish, now this can be a little of workout to do over a hilly course now that I think of it. What would work better is doing it as fartlek workout, still warm-up with a easy running, middle of the 30k start the fartlek with doing 6 to 8 reps for 4mins @ medium/hard effort with 1:30 recovery between each. Than to run easy to finish off the race. Again the goal is to fatigue yourself with the duration of this workout not the speed. The pace should be moderately hard and it is more important to get faster with each repeat than to run fast in the first few and slow for the final few.

I really feel that you don't need to consume yourself with actually pace 4 weeks into your build-up but more with the effort and getting in a good workout that is different than all the LSD you have been doing. Which will also help with the transition to more uptempo/speed works coming up in your program. I believe it is a nice safe way to help put in the building blocks for more intensity later on and also safe on the body. Hope this helps and good luck in your decision on what you decide to do.