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35, 5, and 2

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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:52 pm

Bk level was 0.2, this morning.

Tomorrow, we have an arctic cold front blowing through, which is supposed to be giving Houston its coldest weather in either 1 or 3 years, depending on which airport you're talking about.  Monday morning and Tuesday morning's lows are to be 24 degrees with clear skies and wind chills of 15-20 degrees, downtown.

I'm looking forward to that pretty much, as it'll give me an idea as to how low my gear goes.  I do have a dry cleaning bag as the top layer.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:55 pm

ounce wrote:Bk level was 0.2, this morning.

Tomorrow, we have an arctic cold front blowing through, which is supposed to be giving Houston its coldest weather in either 1 or 3 years, depending on which airport you're talking about.  Monday morning and Tuesday morning's lows are to be 24 degrees with clear skies and wind chills of 15-20 degrees, downtown.

I'm looking forward to that pretty much, as it'll give me an idea as to how low my gear goes.  I do have a dry cleaning bag as the top layer.

Wow, that's nippy! Don't know how well a dry cleaning bag will work (it will trap 100% of whatever moisture is coming out out your clothes), but I'm excited to hear the results of your experiment. Smile
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:17 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Bk level was 0.2, this morning.

Tomorrow, we have an arctic cold front blowing through, which is supposed to be giving Houston its coldest weather in either 1 or 3 years, depending on which airport you're talking about.  Monday morning and Tuesday morning's lows are to be 24 degrees with clear skies and wind chills of 15-20 degrees, downtown.

I'm looking forward to that pretty much, as it'll give me an idea as to how low my gear goes.  I do have a dry cleaning bag as the top layer.

Wow, that's nippy! Don't know how well a dry cleaning bag will work (it will trap 100% of whatever moisture is coming out out your clothes), but I'm excited to hear the results of your experiment. Smile
It's already a member of the layering system.  Originally used to deflect rain, I used it in last year's Houston to deflect the rain, then kept it on for the entire race, except the final 50 yards, to deflect the 20 mph winds and it did great!  It's easier than using a trash bag, which is heavier, thicker & harder to modify, and doesn't allow the photographer to get my bib number in the shot.

I even used it for the warming purpose in the December 30K race.  After about 6 miles, I looked down and there was condensation forming.  I didn't really need it anymore, so I took it off.  It's great and I'm re-purposing plastic!
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:47 am

I had a "lo" reading, this morning.  I had some salmon yesterday, along with some cauliflower, plus some popcorn during "American Hustle", which I didn't agree with all the positive hype on the movie.  It just seemed to drag a bunch, to me.

It'll still be really cold Monday and Tuesday morning.  The morning low for Tuesday has been whittled down to 21, now.  68 by Thursday afternoon.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:33 am

My BK level rebounded to an 0.8, from yesterday's "Lo".  Yet again, I'm trying a little experiment in trying to determine which fat has a bigger influence on the blood ketone level, butter or coconut oil.  In my system, butter has a much greater influence than bacon fat.  I seem to think that butter is better than coconut oil, but this experiment over the next 2 days should give a leaning.

Butter and coconut oil provide medium chain triglycerides (MCT), which are easily absorbed.  Here's a link on MCT's  http://www.livestrong.com/article/78837-medium-chain-triglycerides/

I ran 6.7 miles, this morning, at a 12:13 pace (both 1st and 2nd half pace, too), and 145 avg HR.  It was 27 degrees with a 10 mph NW wind.  I wore long tights for the first time this season.  I'm not really sold on long tights, but figured it was cold enough.  I wore 3 long sleeved shirts, but forgot the dry cleaning bag.  It took until 1.5 miles to generate enough heat to keep me warm, even the hands.

I wore the 150 mile orange Kinvaras and did not have a lick of trouble out of them.  I let my legs set the pace up until 1.5 miles to go, when my pace was slipping to 12:17.  With 3/4ths of a mile to go, my pace was at 12:16 when "Freebird" came on my Shuffle.  I finished with the 12:13.

"Freebird" is a 9 minute song, but I'm not sure if at mile 21 of Houston, if I could play it over and over until the finish line.  That would be ~6 repeats.  You see, my diabolical kick scheme is to see at mile 21 if I can increase pace for the final 5 miles (actually it was Tim's suggestion to keep me from "...do[ing] something stupid."

I'll post the splits, tonight.  Comments welcome and please take a mint from the candy dish.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Jerry on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:35 am

Make sure not to get sick
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:51 am

Jerry wrote:Make sure not to get sick

Thank you, Mr. American.  That's #2 on my list of TAPER MADNESS 'make sure' things.
#1 is proper foot placement, whenever I pick up a foot, until race day.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:27 pm

So, it was 26 degrees during the run with up to a 10 mph NW wind.  I got that on the way back.

6.7 miles, 1:21:50, 12:13 avg pace, 145 avg bpm, 156 max bpm during mile 3, 1st and 2nd half pace was 12:13.


  1. 12:06, 141 bpm
  2. 12:13, 143 bpm
  3. 12:19, 145 bpm
  4. 12:24, 147 bpm
  5. 12:21, 144 bpm
  6. 12:04, 145 bpm
  7. 11:54 pace, 148 bpm


It was really nice to be able to run, this morning, with the added bonus of no leg, nor ankle pain with the orange Kinvaras being worn.

Tomorrow is the tempo run.  It'll either be an 8 mile run or Michele's suggestion of 6-7 miles.  My thought for doing 8 was because I could more easily split it evenly.  However, if there is a wind tomorrow and I'm not suitably clothed, I'll make the 6-7 work.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:58 pm

Wow. 26 degrees in Houston. Whodathunkit?

You didn't mention how comfortable/uncomfortable you were out in it.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:37 am

Mark B wrote:Wow. 26 degrees in Houston. Whodathunkit?

You didn't mention how comfortable/uncomfortable you were out in it.
I should have had my dry cleaning bag as the final layer.  I wasn't especially chilled, but at the turnaround point, I found the NW wind in my face.

This morning, it's 25, but with a mostly calm wind.  So, no dry cleaning bag as a comparison for today's run.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:59 am

I didn't quite do Michele's tempo run exactly as to plan.  She'll have to spank me or kick me or something. Very Happy 
I'll have to post the splits later, but I rather enjoyed the run for what I ended up trying.

I've posted many times about the benefit to my running of the Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Freebird" at the end of a run.  But I've found a song on which to aim my next pace goal.  "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin came up on my Shuffle during mile 2 of my 6.7 mile run.  It's my 2nd favorite Zeppelin song (behind "All of My Love").  It had a good, rhythmic drum beat and I could almost keep up with it. 

So, I adjusted my pace and stride to fall in with the drum & cymbal rhythm and it seemed quicker than 30-45 seconds faster than GMP (tempo pace), but I could hold it.  Then, the idea was to see if I could do a whole mile 3 at this pace while repeating the song 3 or 4 times, so I could see what that pace is.  I probably ran 1.5 miles to this song.  And the split ended up to be 10:50.

25 degrees and calm.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  mul21 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:58 pm

ounce wrote:So, it was 26 degrees during the run with up to a 10 mph NW wind.  I got that on the way back.

6.7 miles, 1:21:50, 12:13 avg pace, 145 avg bpm, 156 max bpm during mile 3, 1st and 2nd half pace was 12:13.


  1. 12:06, 141 bpm
  2. 12:13, 143 bpm
  3. 12:19, 145 bpm
  4. 12:24, 147 bpm
  5. 12:21, 144 bpm
  6. 12:04, 145 bpm
  7. 11:54 pace, 148 bpm


It was really nice to be able to run, this morning, with the added bonus of no leg, nor ankle pain with the orange Kinvaras being worn.

Tomorrow is the tempo run.  It'll either be an 8 mile run or Michele's suggestion of 6-7 miles.  My thought for doing 8 was because I could more easily split it evenly.  However, if there is a wind tomorrow and I'm not suitably clothed, I'll make the 6-7 work.

So you're telling me that you just did a 7 mile run while not cracking 75% of max HR (which is the gold standard ideal for long runs unless you're Mark) at ~12:15 pace and you're still not sure of a 12:00 per mile goal MP? I'd say it's in the bag unless something goes terribly haywire. The fitness is there without question.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:07 pm

mul21 wrote:
ounce wrote:So, it was 26 degrees during the run with up to a 10 mph NW wind.  I got that on the way back.

6.7 miles, 1:21:50, 12:13 avg pace, 145 avg bpm, 156 max bpm during mile 3, 1st and 2nd half pace was 12:13.


  1. 12:06, 141 bpm
  2. 12:13, 143 bpm
  3. 12:19, 145 bpm
  4. 12:24, 147 bpm
  5. 12:21, 144 bpm
  6. 12:04, 145 bpm
  7. 11:54 pace, 148 bpm


It was really nice to be able to run, this morning, with the added bonus of no leg, nor ankle pain with the orange Kinvaras being worn.

Tomorrow is the tempo run.  It'll either be an 8 mile run or Michele's suggestion of 6-7 miles.  My thought for doing 8 was because I could more easily split it evenly.  However, if there is a wind tomorrow and I'm not suitably clothed, I'll make the 6-7 work.

So you're telling me that you just did a 7 mile run while not cracking 75% of max HR (which is the gold standard ideal for long runs unless you're Mark) at ~12:15 pace and you're still not sure of a 12:00 per mile goal MP?  I'd say it's in the bag unless something goes terribly haywire.  The fitness is there without question.

Thanks, Jim.  Well, it's just that I'm not experienced enough to make that judgement.  Which is why I yearn for feedback.

I'm hesitant to ask the question but, what pace do you think I could do for the marathon?
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  JohnP on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:49 pm

You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Schuey on Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:25 pm

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:So, this edema is a bit significant, it sounds. Do you know what caused it?
I think it's a combination of electrolyte imbalance (sodium and potassium will be in balance even if one is low or high, which requires a shift in water presence in the body), possibly some dehydration, and the pounding at pace or long distances.

Since this is not summertime, I haven't been needing to drink as much.  I haven't been as diligent with taking the 2 grams of salt daily.  And I had that one week when I ran long and did two pace runs.  Maybe the perfect storm?

Just now, I'm noticing the veins in my forearms are popping through more than a couple of days before.

That's my thoughts, anyway.
Even during this time of the year and in your state of mind (Taper Madness) please make sure to be diligent at taking care of the needs of your body! I know you will but these edema thing freaks me out just a little, maybe that's just me!
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:38 pm

Schuey wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:So, this edema is a bit significant, it sounds. Do you know what caused it?
I think it's a combination of electrolyte imbalance (sodium and potassium will be in balance even if one is low or high, which requires a shift in water presence in the body), possibly some dehydration, and the pounding at pace or long distances.

Since this is not summertime, I haven't been needing to drink as much.  I haven't been as diligent with taking the 2 grams of salt daily.  And I had that one week when I ran long and did two pace runs.  Maybe the perfect storm?

Just now, I'm noticing the veins in my forearms are popping through more than a couple of days before.

That's my thoughts, anyway.
Even during this time of the year and in your state of mind (Taper Madness) please make sure to be diligent at taking care of the needs of your body! I know you will but these edema thing freaks me out just a little, maybe that's just me!

Thanks, MISTER Schuey.  Wink   It's settled down quite a bit in the past few days, to where my weight has gone back down, I'm not as lightly dizzy, and all the edema has resolved itself.  That episode took a few weeks to get to the level of edema it was and took about 7-10 days to fix it.

I can say that even though I was salting food under the premise that the salt would make it into the body, therefore I didn't need to ingest the 2 grams, that idea was wrong.  No matter how little or a lot that I salt food, I still have to consume the 2 grams, daily.

My best to the Mrs., Schuey.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:01 pm

JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Schuey on Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:08 pm

Mark B wrote:
JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)
Agreed!
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  mul21 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:51 pm

Mark B wrote:
JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)

Oh, I know, it's just fun to harass you for your, um, eccentricities! Also, your stuff is hard for me to get on board with because my body tends to rev at higher than normal RPMs even at easy paces based on my max HR. There's no way according to normal running conventions I should have been able to run the marathon time I just did based on my HR at various training paces.

As for your question Oz, it's hard to say. If you look at what my HR was in training on long runs, I was finishing at around 8:15-20 pace and averaged 7:48 miles for the NYC marathon on a perfect weather day (the wind wasn't much of a factor) on a somewhat tough course. So, figure 30 seconds per mile faster than long run pace or about 6% faster. So if you take your approximately 12:12 pace per mile from this run at less than 75% HR max and subtract 6%, you get 11:28, or right at a 5 hour marathon. Again, everybody is different and these are just ballpark numbers, but as an accounting guy, it's something concrete to wrap your brain around. Or it's not anything concrete at all and will just further add to the taper madness. And I'll again leave the disclaimer that I tend to be able to rev at a higher RPM for a longer period of time than the average bear for whatever reason, be it a more efficient physiological makeup or maybe just a higher pain threshold, I have no idea.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:16 pm

mul21 wrote:
Mark B wrote:
JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)

Oh, I know, it's just fun to harass you for your, um, eccentricities!  Also, your stuff is hard for me to get on board with because my body tends to rev at higher than normal RPMs even at easy paces based on my max HR.  There's no way according to normal running conventions I should have been able to run the marathon time I just did based on my HR at various training paces.

As for your question Oz, it's hard to say.  If you look at what my HR was in training on long runs, I was finishing at around 8:15-20 pace and averaged 7:48 miles for the NYC marathon on a perfect weather day (the wind wasn't much of a factor) on a somewhat tough course.  So, figure 30 seconds per mile faster than long run pace or about 6% faster.  So if you take your approximately 12:12 pace per mile from this run at less than 75% HR max and subtract 6%, you get 11:28, or right at a 5 hour marathon.  Again, everybody is different and these are just ballpark numbers, but as an accounting guy, it's something concrete to wrap your brain around.  Or it's not anything concrete at all and will just further add to the taper madness.  And I'll again leave the disclaimer that I tend to be able to rev at a higher RPM for a longer period of time than the average bear for whatever reason, be it a more efficient physiological makeup or maybe just a higher pain threshold, I have no idea.

Your high revving engine must be like Honda cars and bikes, as they're high revving.  And thanks for the analysis.  I think I'm in a good place regarding pace and energy for the race.  I've also added a little wild card into the equation, based on trying to run the tangents, but calculating a 26.5 mile race.

Separately, my BK level dropped to 0.4 today, from yesterday's 0.8.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:08 pm

Had yoga, tonight.  First time since Dec 17 and it felt good to stretch out the hip sockets and muscles.

Here is this morning's run.  25 degrees and calm winds.  Dressed exactly as yesterday...3 shirts and tights.  It sure seemed cooler this morning than yesterday's 26 with a 10 mph wind.  However, it took about the same amount of time to warm up.

6.7 miles, 1:19:38, 11:53 pace, 149 avg bpm, 169 max bpm during mile 3, 1st half pace 11:30, 2nd half pace 12:16.


  1. 12:02, 144 bpm  warm up
  2. 11:37, 148 bpm 
  3. 10:50, 159 bpm  ran at drum beat of "Rock and Roll"  Led Zeppelin
  4. 11:39, 155 bpm
  5. 12:11, 149 bpm
  6. 12:11, 147 bpm
  7. 13:05 pace, 137 bpm


Sorry, Michele, pulled an audible called "Rock and Roll" and I guess it was like NOS in a pocket rocket or a roman candle.  There was no pain, as another benefit.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:18 am

mul21 wrote:
Mark B wrote:
JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)

Oh, I know, it's just fun to harass you for your, um, eccentricities!  Also, your stuff is hard for me to get on board with because my body tends to rev at higher than normal RPMs even at easy paces based on my max HR.  There's no way according to normal running conventions I should have been able to run the marathon time I just did based on my HR at various training paces.

What you clearly have failed to mention is that you're only 3 feet tall, and part hummingbird. Smile
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:01 am

Mark B wrote:
mul21 wrote:
Mark B wrote:
JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.

I concur. And you may even have some gas left in the last few miles to pick it up a bit. You're ready.

(Though really, Jim... my MAF target works out to 71.5% of my MaxHR, so it's not all that far off your long runs standard. And my Hadd target is even closer to 75%)

Oh, I know, it's just fun to harass you for your, um, eccentricities!  Also, your stuff is hard for me to get on board with because my body tends to rev at higher than normal RPMs even at easy paces based on my max HR.  There's no way according to normal running conventions I should have been able to run the marathon time I just did based on my HR at various training paces.

What you clearly have failed to mention is that you're only 3 feet tall, and part hummingbird. Smile
That IS an important distinction.  How could I be so STUPID to believe everything Jim says!!!???  tongue
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:02 am

JohnP wrote:You should be able to run 12:00 given this training and stats.
Oops, where are my manners?

John, THANKS for your thoughts.  I'm always appreciative of your comments.

No pressure on me, though.  affraid  affraid  affraid
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:15 am

BK level was 0.5, up from yesterday's 0.4.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

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