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35, 5, and 2

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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:39 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@mul21 wrote:Michele's right, that's actually a really good indicator of your fitness and not far off a workout I've done race week of 8 miles with 4 @ MP.  Probably a tad fast, but no harm done since you've got nearly a full week of recovery.  I especially like where you HR was.  A 10:13 mile and you didn't even crack 85% of max?  Fantastic!

I would definitely stick with the plan of a 5:15 marathon and if you're feeling good the last 10-15K, there's no reason you can't pick up the pace and end up under 5:10.  If this wasn't such a huge PR attempt, I'd be tempted, based on those numbers, to advise you to shoot for something even faster, but I think a ~30 minute PR is a big enough challenge as is.

All kidding aside from the TM thread, I couldn't agree with Jim and Michele more. You *are* going to keep getting faster, but the best way to accomplish it is one step at a time. Better to make steady progress at this point.

I had thought to ask Jim, "Screw the magnitude of the 30 minute PR, what do you think I should target?" Guess it's a really good thing, based on Mark's comment, that Reina is pacing me because I might do a bad thing and blow up.

I have time to get faster.  I'll get there.  Thanks to both of you.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:07 am

Evidently my blood is in TAPER MADNESS because the BK level plummeted to 0.2, from 0.9 yesterday.  No clue as to why it happened.  I was a good boy and even upped my fat intake by a third to spike the number up, like it did on Monday morning.  Maybe I'm just a <1.0 BK person.

I was trying to get the number up >2.0 as a defense against when Reina and I go out and eat, where I won't have complete control over my intake.  I'll have as much control as I can get, but ask any chef whether he/she wants to cook with salted butter or unsalted butter, and you'll catch my drift.

Locally, the forecast for Sunday ranges from 42-66 to 50-71, depending on which outlet one watches or reads.  All have a 20% CYA rain, SSE winds <10 and either partly cloudy or mostly cloudy (50-71% cloud coverage).  The 20% kicks in post-marathon.

Didn't run this morning, but will run an easy 5 or 6, maybe 3, tomorrow morning.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:21 pm

I'm getting taken care of on the KHOU weather forum, regarding the forecast:  48 at the start and 67 at noon, and the dewpoint appears to be in the mid-50's at that point.  Not bad with a SSE wind forecasted.




In fact, here's the reply WX57 posted and my replies

wxman57 wrote:
Ounce wrote:Thanks very much for the update, wx. That temp spread works.

Actually for me, good running weather for a marathon is upper 30's at the start and 59 at the end, with mostly cloudy to cloudy skies so I don't get beat down by the sun.


Latest GFS has a low in the upper 40s Sunday morning, mid 50s by 9am (you'll be done by then, right?) and upper 60s by noon:

Thanks, WX. And yes, I'm done by 9, but I run another loop, so I can run in with the bulk of the runners. More satisfying, that way.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:02 am

Filed under the category of "WTF?", my blood ketone level was 1.6, this morning, which is up like a rocket from yesterday's 0.2 and Monday's 0.9.  I dunno.

Also this morning, I ran 4 miles.  It was 46 degrees with a dewpoint of 25 and a north wind of 10.  A cold front blew through over night and dropped temps by 15 degrees.  Another cold front is due through Thursday evening.  These are all dry fronts.  This morning's forecast for Sunday is 42-69.  I haven't seen the GFS forecast model report yet.

This was an easy run, until the last third of a mile when "Rock and Roll", my 10:50 pace song, came on the Shuffle.  I hit the lap button on the 305 to see what the pace was.

4 miles, 50:38, 12:36 pace, 136 avg bpm, 155 max bpm during the last 1/3rd


  1. 12:52, 127 bpm
  2. 12:27, 139 bpm
  3. 12:42, 139 bpm
  4. 13:06 pace, 136 bpm (0.65 miles)
  5. 10:57 pace, 148 bpm ("rock and roll" and 0.35 miles)


No pain.  Feeling good.  And saw one of those solar-powered road closure signs on my usual route on Memorial Drive for the marathon on Sunday.  Good stuff.

Did yoga, last night, and that felt really good.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:07 pm

GFS for this morning is now saying a 51 to 69 spread on temps, but the humidity still remains in the 50's.  Keeps on creeping.  All the temps on both TV and here are reflective of the location which is IAH or Bush Intercontinental Airport or as we sometimes pronounce it "innercon-nental".

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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:34 am

This morning's BK level dropped a third to 1.1 from yesterday's 1.6.  After picking up Reina and checking her into her hotel, we'll be going seafood eating at Reef.  It's supposed to be one of the very best restaurants in Houston.

This linked story has nothing to do with Reef, but is absolutely spot on, when you want to know how long time residents eat in Houston and Southeast Texas.  From the first sentence on, it's 100% accurate.  In fact, I laughed at the second sentence because that was the type of restaurants I was going to schedule for Reina, until I found out she's a vegetarian + seafood eater (especially sushi).  So, I had to find restaurants where both of us could find something on the menu to eat.

And it was a great experience because I have found TONS of restaurants that I've never heard of that serve really great food!  I've probably read 200 restaurant reviews in the Houston Press and tried out a few restaurants in order to come to the list from which to choose.  The Houston Press is a free, once-a-week, edgier publication.

I hope you enjoy the story and you'll get to know how long time Houstonians eat.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2014/01/10_signs_you_grew_up_eating_fo.php?utm_source=Newsletters&utm_medium=email

My time on the TAPER MADNESS!!!! thread will be dropping off markedly, after today.   Crying or Very sad
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:30 am

Excellent, Doug.  I'm not a vegetarian, vegan or anything funky regarding eating, but when I come next year to run, I expect to visit a few of those cool restaurant - ok??
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:41 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Excellent, Doug.  I'm not a vegetarian, vegan or anything funky regarding eating, but when I come next year to run, I expect to visit a few of those cool restaurant - ok??

Yes, ma'am.  My pleasure.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:01 pm

Looking good, Doug! The weird ketone swings (sounds like a good name for a band, actually...) might be related to the physiological changes going on in taper. Your body might be trying to get itself balanced.

So the race is only a few days away now. Do you have your race plan completed? We'd love to see it.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:27 pm

@Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug! The weird ketone swings (sounds like a good name for a band, actually...) might be related to the physiological changes going on in taper. Your body might be trying to get itself balanced.

So the race is only a few days away now. Do you have your race plan completed? We'd love to see it.

thanks.

Race plan?  No, no, no.  this isn't TAPER MADNESS!!!!
I'm trying to come up with one that factors in running the course long (aka "Garmin Tax"), plus a little warm up (2 miles) and a sprinting back half!  (well, not sprinting).  Work is getting in the way, though.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:00 pm

Responding to the will of the person, here are 3 scenarios:

Conditions:

  1. Net sub-12 pace (less than 5:14:00)
  2. Factor in 0.30 running the course long, so the last 0.2 miles of the race becomes 0.5.


Okay, a 12 minute pace througout the race gives a finishing pace of 12:08, with the overrunning factored in.

Idea 1:  5:12:56 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-19 at 11:55 pace, and miles 20-26.2 at 11:30 pace. 1 minute 45 second positive split.  11:57 overall pace.

Idea 2:  5:11:35 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-11 at 11:55 pace, miles 12-19 at 11:45 pace, and miles 20-26.2 at 11:30 pace.  90 second positive split.  11:54 overall pace

Idea 3:  5:10:50 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-13 at 11:55 pace, and miles 14-26.2 at 11:30 pace.  20 second negative split.  11:52 overall pace.

Any total distance less than 26.5 miles on my 305, lowers the overall pace.  A 5:09:00 would give me a full 1 hour improvement over last year and a 36 minute PR.  But I just can't help but feel on idea #3 that running the back half at 11:30 might not be sustainable.

Thoughts?
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  mul21 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:00 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug! The weird ketone swings (sounds like a good name for a band, actually...) might be related to the physiological changes going on in taper. Your body might be trying to get itself balanced.

So the race is only a few days away now. Do you have your race plan completed? We'd love to see it.

thanks.

Race plan?  No, no, no.  this isn't TAPER MADNESS!!!!
I'm trying to come up with one that factors in running the course long (aka "Garmin Tax"), plus a little warm up (2 miles) and a sprinting back half!  (well, not sprinting).  Work is getting in the way, though.

A: Don't worry about the Garmin tax. Just stay a few seconds under goal pace while you're running and you'll be fine.
B: Don't do a warm up. Have your first mile or two be just a tad slower than goal MP and make it up as you go. You'll need that gas in the tank the last 10K.
C: Be on pace at 20 miles, or even just a little bit ahead, you're bound to give some back in the last 10K unless your goal is uber conservative.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:03 pm

@mul21 wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug! The weird ketone swings (sounds like a good name for a band, actually...) might be related to the physiological changes going on in taper. Your body might be trying to get itself balanced.

So the race is only a few days away now. Do you have your race plan completed? We'd love to see it.

thanks.

Race plan?  No, no, no.  this isn't TAPER MADNESS!!!!
I'm trying to come up with one that factors in running the course long (aka "Garmin Tax"), plus a little warm up (2 miles) and a sprinting back half!  (well, not sprinting).  Work is getting in the way, though.

A: Don't worry about the Garmin tax.  Just stay a few seconds under goal pace while you're running and you'll be fine.
B: Don't do a warm up. Have your first mile or two be just a tad slower than goal MP and make it up as you go.  You'll need that gas in the tank the last 10K.
C: Be on pace at 20 miles, or even just a little bit ahead, you're bound to give some back in the last 10K unless your goal is uber conservative.

Yeah, I figure running the course long costs 5 seconds a mile.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Jerry on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:33 pm

@ounce wrote:
@mul21 wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug! The weird ketone swings (sounds like a good name for a band, actually...) might be related to the physiological changes going on in taper. Your body might be trying to get itself balanced.

So the race is only a few days away now. Do you have your race plan completed? We'd love to see it.

thanks.

Race plan?  No, no, no.  this isn't TAPER MADNESS!!!!
I'm trying to come up with one that factors in running the course long (aka "Garmin Tax"), plus a little warm up (2 miles) and a sprinting back half!  (well, not sprinting).  Work is getting in the way, though.

A: Don't worry about the Garmin tax.  Just stay a few seconds under goal pace while you're running and you'll be fine.
B: Don't do a warm up. Have your first mile or two be just a tad slower than goal MP and make it up as you go.  You'll need that gas in the tank the last 10K.
C: Be on pace at 20 miles, or even just a little bit ahead, you're bound to give some back in the last 10K unless your goal is uber conservative.

Yeah, I figure running the course long costs 5 seconds a mile.

In that case, run 5 seconds faster.  lol! 

I check the actual time at each mile mark, typically during the second half.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:53 pm

@ounce wrote:Responding to the will of the person, here are 3 scenarios:

Conditions:

  1. Net sub-12 pace (less than 5:14:00)
  2. Factor in 0.30 running the course long, so the last 0.2 miles of the race becomes 0.5.


Okay, a 12 minute pace througout the race gives a finishing pace of 12:08, with the overrunning factored in.

Idea 1:  5:12:56 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-19 at 11:55 pace, and miles 20-26.2 at 11:30 pace. 1 minute 45 second positive split.  11:57 overall pace.

Idea 2:  5:11:35 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-11 at 11:55 pace, miles 12-19 at 11:45 pace, and miles 20-26.2 at 11:30 pace.  90 second positive split.  11:54 overall pace

Idea 3:  5:10:50 - miles 1 & 2 at 12:15, miles 3-13 at 11:55 pace, and miles 14-26.2 at 11:30 pace.  20 second negative split.  11:52 overall pace.

Any total distance less than 26.5 miles on my 305, lowers the overall pace.  A 5:09:00 would give me a full 1 hour improvement over last year and a 36 minute PR.  But I just can't help but feel on idea #3 that running the back half at 11:30 might not be sustainable.

Thoughts?

My biggest thought echoes what Jim said: Don't fret about the "Garmin tax." There will be plenty of other variables that can have an impact on your per-mile pace. I think your first option is best: holding the 11:55 pace until Mile 20. Once you get past 20, then it's going to be up to you to decide what you think you can handle as you take progressively greater chances the closer you get to the end.

It's okay for it to hurt in those last few miles. Just don't blow up before you get to them.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  mul21 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:00 pm

^^^^^^^What he said.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:11 am

@mul21 wrote:^^^^^^^What he said.
Ditto
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:18 am

This morning, Reina and I ran a 2.38 loosening up run.  It was the first time we had ever ran together.  I had given her my 305 and heart rate monitor, so I could find out what her HR at a certain pace is.  So, she had two watches on her wrists.

We started out pretty fast and I slowed us down, twice.  After that, I took her to a Bikram yoga studio before heading out to Brenham, Texas for a tour of the Blue Bell Creamery.  Blue Bell ice cream is great ice cream and is #3 in the country, with only activity in 22 states.

She loved the place and the double scoop after the tour.

Below are the splits from our run this morning.

2.38 miles, 27:34, 11:36 pace, 150 bpm avg, 167 max HR during mile 2.

  1. 11:44, 147 bpm
  2. 11:37, 152 bpm
  3. 11:10 pace, 155 bpm


The closest run of mine for this HR avg is a 2 mile run during one of Michele's long 10 mile tempo run.  This run was the last 2 mile run of a 1 jog, 2 run, 1 jog, 2 run, 1 jog, 2 run, 1 jog sequence.

December 29, 2 miles, 22:38, 11:18 pace, 150 avg bpm, 161 max bpm during mile 2,


  1. 11:31, 147 bpm
  2. 11:05, 153 bpm
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:25 am

You must be getting very excited. I think the biggest challenge for you and Reina will be to not take off like a pair of greyhounds when the race starts. Very Happy
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:41 am

@Mark B wrote:You must be getting very excited. I think the biggest challenge for you and Reina will be to not take off like a pair of greyhounds when the race starts. Very Happy
I'm the anchor, early on.  She hasn't ran tangents before, so she'll either follow me or have me checked out for RWI
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:48 am

This morning, the day before the Houston Marathon  jocolor (should you need the reminder), my BK level was 0.6.  A pretty easy day, today, with Reina.  2 massages, some sushi, etc. is on tap.  The Expo is done and we just need to finalize pre-race plans, plus the timing of post race stuff.

Monday is really going to suck.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Michael Mitchell on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:32 am

@ounce wrote:This morning, the day before the Houston Marathon  jocolor (should you need the reminder), my BK level was 0.6.  A pretty easy day, today, with Reina.  2 massages, some sushi, etc. is on tap.  The Expo is done and we just need to finalize pre-race plans, plus the timing of post race stuff.

Monday is really going to suck.

Hang in there brother. I will be watching in spirit. :)Do well.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:50 am

@Michael Mitchell wrote:
@ounce wrote:This morning, the day before the Houston Marathon  jocolor (should you need the reminder), my BK level was 0.6.  A pretty easy day, today, with Reina.  2 massages, some sushi, etc. is on tap.  The Expo is done and we just need to finalize pre-race plans, plus the timing of post race stuff.

Monday is really going to suck.

Hang in there brother. I will be watching in spirit. :)Do well.
Thanks, Michael!  Your KHOU forum contributors, like Wx and katdaddy were giving me unprompted updates for tomorrow's race.  Today's weather would've been pretty much perfect, not so much tomorrow.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:25 pm

Go Doug and Reina Go!
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Monday is going to be AWESOME. Basking in the glow of a fantastic marathon experience.

Go Doug and Reina! We'll be pulling for you both.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

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