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Silly Marathoner

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Silly Marathoner

Post  Jerry on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:47 am

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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Mark B on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:07 pm

I read the original story, and it noted that the disqualified winner freely admitted it was borrowed bib, wasn't upset about it, and said he'd come back next year.

I suspect next time, he'll register. That's got to be embarrassing.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Michael Enright on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:47 pm

See, that's exactly why I always regsiter!

Very Happy
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Dave-O on Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:02 pm

Question: Can he claim to friends and family that he won a marathon? Tough call.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Jerry on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:42 pm

@Dave-O wrote:Question: Can he claim to friends and family that he won a marathon? Tough call.

Absolutely not, cause he can't prove it. affraid
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:59 pm

He had to have known what he was getting into, right? I mean I am not at his level, but would still not be that dumb.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  mountandog on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:37 am

not being able to legally transfer bibs is just a stupid rule and a just a money grab in some circumstances. Never understood it, never will. If someone wants to transfer it "legally" let them do so, i.e., MCM. The marathon can even make more $$ by charging a transfer fee. You'd give another 1000 BOS qualifiers a chance to get in due to legitimate withdrawls, injuries, etc. Stupid stupid rule.



My 2-cents worth.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Dave Wolfe on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:18 am

@Jerry wrote:
@Dave-O wrote:Question: Can he claim to friends and family that he won a marathon? Tough call.

Absolutely not, cause he can't prove it. affraid

Winner, perhaps not. But he can claim he finished first. Proof -- the internet article.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  ounce on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:27 am

Unless he cut the course, he can certainly claim that he's fast enough to win a marathon.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Dave-O on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:01 pm

@Dave Wolfe wrote:

Winner, perhaps not. But he can claim he finished first. Proof -- the internet article.

I approve of your use of semantics - winner v. first finisher. cheers
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Dave-O on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:03 pm

@mountandog wrote:not being able to legally transfer bibs is just a stupid rule and a just a money grab in some circumstances. Never understood it, never will. If someone wants to transfer it "legally" let them do so, i.e., MCM. The marathon can even make more $$ by charging a transfer fee. You'd give another 1000 BOS qualifiers a chance to get in due to legitimate withdrawls, injuries, etc. Stupid stupid rule.

My 2-cents worth.

Many races set their registration cap factoring in attrition rate. The Chicago Marathon is one of them. The RD has been open in saying that it couldn't really handle 45,000 runners, and that running a smooth race requires some DNSs.

So if the Chicago Marathon would allow bib transfers, it would need to cap registration somewhere between 35,000 and 40,000. I don't think they'd make any more money.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:39 pm

The dude said he'd come back next year and race legitimately... but don't you think the RD should ban him? That's a pretty f'd up thing to do... winning a race while running with someone else's bib.

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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:43 pm

Shrug. He won. I wasn't happy about it when I got inched out of 2nd in a race by a bandit, but as long as he ran the whole course like I did, he earned his 2nd place. If there were prizes involved... Then yeah, pay in to get paid.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:55 pm

Whatever. I'm not sure he intended to win, but I also don't understand why he crossed the finish line. If he had told the Rd ahead of time that he was legitimately that fast, I bet he would have been given a bib.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Dave-O on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:06 pm

What surprises me is that he wasn't aware that he'd be in contention for the podium. I couldn't tell you the last time I entered a race and didn't look up prior year's results. And for the vast majority of marathons in the US, sub-2:40 is going to put you near the front.

@Mr MattM wrote:The dude said he'd come back next year and race legitimately... but don't you think the RD should ban him? That's a pretty f'd up thing to do... winning a race while running with someone else's bib.

I had a similar situation with the half marathon I won in 2010.

A bandit jumped in somewhere around miles 3 or 4. I don't remember the exact spot but I remember suddenly hearing footsteps behind me when I didn't think anyone had bridged the gap. And I didn't realize he was a bandit until mile 7. Initially I didn't care, and he apologized for "interferering" with my race. But then at about mile 11 he started to pull away. While I may have been able to hang with him, that fact was (a) he didn't run at least the first 3 miles and (b) I didn't want to have to go to battle with a bandit.

When he pulled away, the lead cyclists initially went with him. Thankfully at one point one of the guys dropped back to me, which allowed me to inform him that I was actually in the lead. After confirming the other guy was unregistered, they pulled him off the course. I would have been pissed if this guy broke MY tape.

So really I feel bad for the "2nd" place finisher that didn't get his moment to actually WIN the race.


Last edited by Dave-O on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Tim C on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:00 pm

@Dave-O wrote:What surprises me is that he wasn't aware that he'd be in contention for the podium. I couldn't tell you the last time I entered a race and didn't look up prior year's results. And for the vast majority of marathons in the US, sub-2:40 is going to put you near the front.

@Mr MattM wrote:The dude said he'd come back next year and race legitimately... but don't you think the RD should ban him? That's a pretty f'd up thing to do... winning a race while running with someone else's bib.

I had a similar situation with the half marathon I won in 2010.

A bandit jumped in somewhere around miles 3 or 4. I don't remember the exact spot but I remember suddenly hearing footsteps behind me when I didn't think anyone had bridged the gap. And I didn't realize he was a bandit until mile 7. Initially I didn't care, and he apologized for "interering" with my race. But then at about mile 11 he started to pull away. While I may have been able to hang with him, that fast was (a) he didn't run at least the first 3 miles and (b) I didn't want to have to go to battle with a bandit.

When he pulled away, the lead cyclists initially went with him. Thankfully at one point one of the guys dropped back to me, which allowed me to inform him that I was actually in the lead. After confirming the other guy was unregistered, they pulled him off the course. I would have been pissed if this guy broke MY tape.

So really I feel bad for the "2nd" place finisher that didn't get his moment to actually WIN the race.

Not so sure I agree. In your case, the guy didn't run the whole race. He may have been a bandit, but he was also a cheater.

In this case, the guy ran the whole race so he didn't cheat. He didn't sign up so yes, he is a bandit, but at least he ran the whole race. And was the first to finish.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  GregC on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:09 pm

I'm with Dave on this. If you're going to bandit a race, at least have the decency to pull off the course before you cross the finish line. It serves no purpose crossing the finish line. You get your moral victory and everyone else gets clarity.

I've never bandited a race, and the main reason I haven't is because in most races I'd finish close enough to the front where if I finish it might get scrutinized.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Matt W on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:48 pm

@GregC wrote:I'm with Dave on this. If you're going to bandit a race, at least have the decency to pull off the course before you cross the finish line. It serves no purpose crossing the finish line. You get your moral victory and everyone else gets clarity.

I've never bandited a race, and the main reason I haven't is because in most races I'd finish close enough to the front where if I finish it might get scrutinized.

This.


I wouldn't want to bandit a race and steal someone's moment or cause some confusion about awards. Some races have a hard enough time with that even when all goes smoothly.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:59 pm

Well, I banditted Boston 4X while in college as many Boston area college students still do. I had no hope of winning though, so that probably made it not matter as much. It was also in the early 1980s (1980,1981, 1982, 1983) when a 4:25 run at Boston placed you way at the back of the pack with the other bandits and hurting official entrants.

I have never since banditted a race. I will often enter and drop out if I am just doing a training run of a certain distance. But then again, I have no shot at being the overall winner.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Mike MacLellan on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:35 pm

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:But then again, I have no shot at being the overall winner.

I think that's the key difference in the arguments we're seeing here. If it was a small-field trail race that I had a good shot of podium-ing in, I wouldn't bandit it, just because I'm sure I'd be "caught" and that would not be a fun situation. But a big marathon? Done it. I DID pull off right before the final stretch where the barriers come up, but that was more me being afraid of getting caught, again.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Nick Morris on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:40 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:But then again, I have no shot at being the overall winner.

I think that's the key difference in the arguments we're seeing here. If it was a small-field trail race that I had a good shot of podium-ing in, I wouldn't bandit it, just because I'm sure I'd be "caught" and that would not be a fun situation. But a big marathon? Done it. I DID pull off right before the final stretch where the barriers come up, but that was more me being afraid of getting caught, again.

+1 If you even think you have a shot at winning it, you should either pull up or not run.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Chris M on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:07 pm

Interesting situation and comments. All of you seem to be universally branding him a "bandit" but is that accurate? This isn't a Rosie Ruiz deal where he didn't run the whole course. He started with the field, ran the whole course and has an acurrate chip time. Also, it was him and not the RD that identified himself as having run under someone else's name. So I view this differently than the situation Dave-O described (clearly a bandit who really shouldn't have been mixing it up with the leader of a real race) or what Michele has done (running without a number). Perhaps some of you view running using someone else's bib as the same level of offense? Some races have bib transfers where that would be a non-issue and some don't. So this guy didn't follow the rules of this particular race and so got the DQ once he self-reported himself. But I view it as a foot race was held with a bunch of people with bibs and chips on and he started with everyone, ran the whole course, and covered it faster than anyone else. Forget semantics, he's the "race winner" in my mind and not just the "first across the finish line" So I view his violation of wearing his buddies number as a "non-crime" and most of you argue he should have never crossed the finish and stepped off before the end. So where does the line get drawn for race specific rules?

Here are some examples of "rules" to consider:

Do you remember the winner of the SF marathon a few years back was denied money because she had started with the field instead of with the seperate "elite women" start? There was a big hue and cry then and Reebok stepped up and ended up awarding her the prize money that the race would not. Right decision by the RD?

Last weekend I was in a half marathon and a guy 2 people in front of me had his wife biking alongside of him for a couple of miles and he would periodically take swigs from the bottle she was carrying. He ended up 2nd place in the AG and I ended in 3rd. Should he have been DQed? I definitely don't think so and think he did nothing wrong but strict RDs or rule following racers would feel otherwise.

In Chicago 2010, I had a A Corral number and MVW had a B Corral number. But he talked his way into the A Corral and we started together. What if he won his AG from there? Should he be DQed since he started further up than his official bib should have allowed? Yes, there's a chip time but the other B Corral runners had runner traffic to deal with that he didn't. DQ him? Again, I would say no way but I get the sense that I'm much more tolerant of bending or even breaking these rules that I don't view as central to the event (like running using a bib that's paid for but under someone else's name).

So for all of these situations, I don't see a real "running crime" here. The guy who won the race? It was on a paid for bib. I don't classify him as a "bandit" but I get that strict application of the rules results in a DQ for him. But what rules matter and which ones should be ignored? Are we DQing any runner ever seen getting handed a bottle from a family member or friend in the crowd during the race? Zeroing out the chip time for any runner who put safety pins on their bib where it says "Do Not Pin Here" or folds up the number so the sponsor logos don't show and only the number itself is visible? Rules say yes, DQ the runner .... but c'mon.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  mul21 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:20 pm

Good points Chris, but it still doesn't change the fact that all the cases you've mentioned the person in question was an official entrant in the race, which this guy was not. I don't have a problem with him running the race, but that was a pretty big faux pas on his part to win while not being officially entered in the race. I really don't care one way or the other, much like you, but there's a level of stretching the rules that you just can't go past, and he did.
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Jerry on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:01 pm

Just fyi, from an online report, the winner's prize is a NYCM trip, which I assume includes the air fare, hotel and entry(?).

This may be the only time I can say this, so I will say it: Chris is wrong on all accounts. study
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Re: Silly Marathoner

Post  Schuey on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:54 pm

Personally I don't care! The way I see it he kicked everyone's ass and then was honest about the fact that that he used someone else bid. Bonus the person finished 2nd finds out that he actually wins the race. No one is hurt, no one cheated! Now if the guy didn't come clean and was exposed later well then different deal! So again I can't believe this was such a big deal!

I guess that is one thing I don't get about a lot of runners, always caring and worrying about what others do. Even if I was good enough to win a race I would feel the say way. I guess my outlook on running and racing is more about myself and putting out my best effort. Sure placing high mean something but at the end the day I know what I did and accomplished so I guess I really don't need some award, finishing place or cash to validate what I really know and that is the effort I gave.
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