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Resurrecting Chicago

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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Kenny B. on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:41 am

Solid run!
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:51 am

Early morning run today as my wife has a Dr. appt at 9:30 and I promised I'd take her to breakfast at our favorite pancake house first. Feel like I have to earn those stacks before I can eat them! So off to a 5:45 run with 60 degrees, overcast and occasional drizzle. In other words, a perfect running day! On the menu was the standard LHR run of 60min/LHR @143 max/cadence >90. Legs were complaining during the warmup walk about getting straight out of bed and into the shoes. After about 5 minutes of listening to that, I just told them to shut up and run Very Happy .

Apparently they were just whining because the run went very well, exceeding expectations. I ended up at with an average pace of 8:51 at with average HR in range, something that during the Eugene cycle I was not able to accomplish until much further along in the training cycle. Splits and HR were very consistent. Cautiously optimistic . . .

Split
Distance
Avg Pace
Avg HR
Cadence
1
1
8:53
142
91
2
1
8:38
140
93
3
1
8:44
142
91
4
1
8:54
140
90
5
1
8:55
143
92
6
1
8:56
143
92
7
0.81
8:56
144
93
Summary
6.81
8:51
142
92
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Joel H on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:53 am

Another solid run Tom, looks like you earned that stack!
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Mark B on Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:36 pm

Progress!
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:50 pm

Nice looking run, Tom.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Schuey on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:01 pm

getting caught up after my daze and haze of a vacation. Looks like things are still rolling along for you Tom! Hope you enjoyed those stacks?
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:05 pm

Tom, I too, am catching up on your blog and I'll be doing so. From what I've read so far you have been having some really great runs with some nice paces and a nice consistent HR. Way to go! I'm really excited to follow your training and I think it's so great that the hard work you're putting in is showing! Keep up the great work! Smile Approval
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Thanks for all the positive feedback everyone, it is all good fuel to keep the fires of determination burning! Started feeling a bit of tightness in my itb again and couldn't figure out what had changed. Same courses, similar paces and distances, diligently doing my stretches on a daily basis - Doh!, I looked over and saw my trigger point roller sitting there forelornly staring at me. For whatever reason, for that last 2 weeks I have completely neglected to do rolling as part of my regimen. WTF scratch Rolling has been a part of my pattern for so long, I cannot begin to understand how I could let that slip. So got back on the roller and yup, itb on both sides tighter than I remember in a long time.

Today is a cross training day. Mile swim this morning in 38 minutes, and hour Pilates session this afternoon.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:13 pm

Stay fit with the x training and roll out that ITB like dough.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:26 am

Heh. That's funny (well, sort of...) about the ITB band. I don't know how many times I've gotten sore in one place or another and puzzled over it... until I remembered that I'd completely neglected a stretch or exercise that would have prevented the problem in the first place.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:16 am

It's funny how it happens, Tom. I know that I neglected my foam roller a bit too much in late May/early June before I came here, and I paid for it as well. One day at a time and you'll be back as good as new.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Kenny B. on Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:50 pm

ITB usually flares up from misalignment in the hips at least in my case. Just watch it and roll it and keep on rollin'

Rolling rolling rolling keep them doggies rolling RAWHIDE
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:52 pm

Good to see I'm not alone on the oops-I-forgot-to-xxxxxxx stuff:D

My Pilates instructor yesterday worked on flexibility and has determined my hamstrings need a lot of work. I knew this already and we've been working on it, but now I think it has become a real focus for her. There were times when an onlooker would have thought I was either losing a wrestling match or had just been taken down by the SWAT team and cuffed if they'd looked in when I was contorted into various unlikely positions. I think I've also determined that what I thought was a piriformis issue may well be just the aftermath of the assisted stretching sessions with her and will monitor appropriately. The good news is that when we started about 4 weeks ago I could not sit on the ground with my legs extended directly in front of me and touch my toes. Now, I'm able to get the heels of my hands on my toes, so I am seeing some flexibility increases. I've never been one for aggressive stretching and was amazed to find that just that activity could have me actively sweating. I think I'm developing a new respect for Yoga practitioners.

Today's run was continued LHR, 60min/LHR @143 max/cadence >90, the same as the last two runs. For whatever reason, today was a lot more work. Nothing felt as though it was loose and I could not find my balanced breathing place until about mile 6. I was pleasantly surprised when I reviewed the run data as, quite frankly, I had expected a pretty crappy result, but things were still in the right ballpark. Average results kept my HR at 143, cadence at 90, and pace at 9:05. Between you and me I was hoping for a sub-9:00 after Wednesday's effort, but knew that result was an exceptional one, and the hope was certainly an optimistic one at this point in the cycle.

SplitTimeDistanceAvg PaceAvg HRCadence
10:08:4918:4914388
20:08:5918:5914290
30:09:0319:0314390
40:09:0919:0914290
50:09:1719:1714391
60:09:0619:0614392
70:05:450.639:1114392
Summary1:00:116.639:0514390

So I'm going to track the progression of runs over time graphically to get a sense of when I am overdoing it or have plateaued for some other reason. Thus far the general trend is going the right way and next week I'll start adding in some of the MP components. I'll be doing this in a progressive fashion on my midweek runs of 90 minutes. Next week will be 5 min at MP, the following week 10 min, then 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 40, 20 (last two weeks tapering). I've not done this before, so may have to modify depending on how it goes.

Here's what the HR/Pace trend looks like at this point:



Onward.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Jim Lentz on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:32 pm

Nice run today, even if it felt harder than it should have.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:43 pm

You're making steady progress, Tom. Be patient! That sub-9 split will get here soon.

And given how your pilates instructor turned you into a pretzel, today's less-than-satisfying run can't be that surprising.

That HR:Split chart brings back lots of memories! Just remember, it's more satisfying to get faster if you don't feel like you've cheated it by pushing yourself just a little bit harder to push it over the edge. (Not that I ever did anything, ahem, like that. Wink)
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:43 pm

@Mark B wrote:That HR:Split chart brings back lots of memories! Just remember, it's more satisfying to get faster if you don't feel like you've cheated it by pushing yourself just a little bit harder to push it over the edge. (Not that I ever did anything, ahem, like that. Wink)

Mark, today was a day when I envied your change in direction, forgetting about HR and leaving the Garmin at home. In a nutshell - Todays. Run. Sucked. Big time.

The first mile felt like mile 20 and it went downhill from there. I had zero energy and it felt like I was running in water the whole time. My plan was to do 12 miles @ LHR starting at a pace of 9:15 and seeing if I could hold the pace @ HR for the distance. I struggled to keep the pace down in the first couple of miles just because I could not get comfortable at that slower pace and kept speeding up to a comfort zone, but it was a weird experience because although I was speeding up, I had no energy. Every mile thereafter was a tough one and the pace rapidly fell off with me constantly exceeding HR and having to slow down. At about mile 6 I decided I'd cut the run short and headed back such that my 12 miler became only 9.

Data follows; mile 1 HR is a strap anomoly, when it finally settled down at the end of the mile I was at 138:

Split
Time
Distance
Avg Pace
Avg HR
Cadence
1
0:09:07
1
9:07
148
89
2
0:09:03
1
9:03
140
91
3
0:09:12
1
9:12
142
91
4
0:09:24
1
9:24
143
91
5
0:09:14
1
9:14
143
91
6
0:09:17
1
9:17
143
90
7
0:09:17
1
9:17
144
91
8
0:09:32
1
9:32
144
90
9
0:09:34
1
9:34
143
90
10
0:01:25
0.14
9:54
142
89
Summary
1:25:10
9.14
9:18
143
90


The numbers aren't great, but aren't terrible either (better than expected). I'm at a loss as to what to contribute this to. Yesterday was a rest day (golf and some stretching), good lunch and dinner, good night sleep, plenty of hydration in the last 24 hours, a bagel an hour before the run. I hope this is not an indicator I'm coming down with something, I've got a grandbaby due and the "any time" clock starts ticking soon!

The other bad news is that I'm finally going to have to go see the doc and get the right AT looked at. It has been a low grade issue for a while, and I've been icing, using electrostim and not increasing miles, but it isn't going away. Today was the first day that I was really aware of it during the run (thus far it has been after the run only). At this point in the cycle I really don't want to hear a total rest from running prescription, but I've seen enough postings about the AT to know that it is something that likely won't go away without some action being taken. Today's run may be somehow associated with it, just adding insult to injury. Literally Crying or Very sad


Last edited by Tom H on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Kenny B. on Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:48 pm

AT did not go away for me until I took compkete rest I toyed with for many weeks just wasting time finally I just stopped and took off straight 3 and half weeks got orthodics and no issue since. I list 10 weeks instead of maybe 4.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:07 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:AT did not go away for me until I took compkete rest I toyed with for many weeks just wasting time finally I just stopped and took off straight 3 and half weeks got orthodics and no issue since. I list 10 weeks instead of maybe 4.
Yeah, I think we all try to treat these types of things ourselves, and quite often are successful, but AT seems to be one of those that is hard because the right answer is one we don't want to hear - complete rest. If it comes to that, I get the feeling I'll become a much better swimmer in the next few weeks . . .
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:34 pm

Not a happy camper right now. After yesterday's run the AT was angry with me even when just sitting. Prior to that, it was just a minor annoyance. I got a referral from two runners for a new sports podiatrist who is also a runner, and has successfully treated their AT issues, so called for an appointment. Earliest I can get in is on the 27th. Crap. I'm on the cancellation list, so am hoping that gets me in sooner.

No question there is something happening down on the AT, so the smart move right now is complete rest from running until I can see the doc, something I totally hate. I'll be swimming more and getting back on the ol' elliptical to keep aerobic fitness and looking for other ways to do so, but this likely puts a serious crimp in the BQ in Chicago scenario. Crap.Mad Crap.Mad Crap.Mad
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:04 pm

Stretch and self-massage. Those items always help when my AT flares up. It is usually (in my case) because my calves are tight.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Diego on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:13 pm

Grab /Purchase an incline wobble board to use before your runs. I have used it and 2 minutes on one each day were miraculous. Single leg squats on the stairs, dropping the other leg behind you and pushing off on the AT 10 reps daily or twice daily can also help(eccentric strengthening). I'm not a big fan of Rx'd orthotics and think folks need to go back to the basics--lower heel drops, barefoot running, etc.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Mark B on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:04 pm

Have you tried eccentric heel drops?



The guy in the video makes it look more complicated than it is.

The way it was taught to me.

1. Toes on step or board.
2. Lock knees.
3. Lower heels slowly until you reach full extension.
4. Raise back up until your feet are parallel with the floor (you needn't go on your toes for this, but you can if you prefer).
5. Drop back down again. Repeat for 15 drops.
6. Unlock your knees.
7. Do 15 more reps. You'll notice that you're stretching a different layer of calf muscles.
8. Lock your knees, do 15 more.
9. Unlock knees, do 15 more.
10. Keep doing it until you're crying for mommy.

Unlike most stretches, this one is supposed to hurt like an SOB. It was devised (or so I was told) but some PT who had chronic AT problems and wanted surgery. They wouldn't do surgery unless it was torn, so he devised this bit of torture to make it tear so he could get surgery. He was more than a little surprised to discover that it fixed his AT.

When you can rip 'em out (3 sets of 15 with knees locked and 3 sets o 15 with knees flexed is a good start) easily with both legs, switch to doing them on one leg at a time.
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Diego on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:11 pm

@Mark B wrote:Have you tried eccentric heel drops?



The guy in the video makes it look more complicated than it is.

The way it was taught to me.

1. Toes on step or board.
2. Lock knees.
3. Lower heels slowly until you reach full extension.
4. Raise back up until your feet are parallel with the floor (you needn't go on your toes for this, but you can if you prefer).
5. Drop back down again. Repeat for 15 drops.
6. Unlock your knees.
7. Do 15 more reps. You'll notice that you're stretching a different layer of calf muscles.
8. Lock your knees, do 15 more.
9. Unlock knees, do 15 more.
10. Keep doing it until you're crying for mommy.

Unlike most stretches, this one is supposed to hurt like an SOB. It was devised (or so I was told) but some PT who had chronic AT problems and wanted surgery. They wouldn't do surgery unless it was torn, so he devised this bit of torture to make it tear so he could get surgery. He was more than a little surprised to discover that it fixed his AT.

When you can rip 'em out (3 sets of 15 with knees locked and 3 sets o 15 with knees flexed is a good start) easily with both legs, switch to doing them on one leg at a time.


Exactly!
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Julie on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:21 pm

I hope you can get in with a cancellation soon. Sorry about all the AT pain and troubles. It sounds terrible. I hope those exercises already suggested help, too. Sorry...
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Re: Resurrecting Chicago

Post  Tom H on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:58 pm

jimd wrote:Grab /Purchase an incline wobble board to use before your runs. I have used it and 2 minutes on one each day were miraculous. Single leg squats on the stairs, dropping the other leg behind you and pushing off on the AT 10 reps daily or twice daily can also help(eccentric strengthening). I'm not a big fan of Rx'd orthotics and think folks need to go back to the basics--lower heel drops, barefoot running, etc.

Jim, I'm with you on the orthotics, my experience in the past has been one of wasted money. I moved to the lower drop Free Runs a while back and from all I've read, they should be the type of shoe that avoids this problem compared to many of the others.

@Mark B wrote:Have you tried eccentric heel drops?



The guy in the video makes it look more complicated than it is.

The way it was taught to me.

1. Toes on step or board.
2. Lock knees.
3. Lower heels slowly until you reach full extension.
4. Raise back up until your feet are parallel with the floor (you needn't go on your toes for this, but you can if you prefer).
5. Drop back down again. Repeat for 15 drops.
6. Unlock your knees.
7. Do 15 more reps. You'll notice that you're stretching a different layer of calf muscles.
8. Lock your knees, do 15 more.
9. Unlock knees, do 15 more.
10. Keep doing it until you're crying for mommy.

Unlike most stretches, this one is supposed to hurt like an SOB. It was devised (or so I was told) but some PT who had chronic AT problems and wanted surgery. They wouldn't do surgery unless it was torn, so he devised this bit of torture to make it tear so he could get surgery. He was more than a little surprised to discover that it fixed his AT.

When you can rip 'em out (3 sets of 15 with knees locked and 3 sets o 15 with knees flexed is a good start) easily with both legs, switch to doing them on one leg at a time.

Mark, thanks for including the video. The one big difference I see in it compared to what I've been doing (based on what I had read as instructions) is that there is no lifting of the affected heel, all that stress is taken on by the healthy side. Big difference; getting the stretch without the stress. When I've done it before, I've backed off because I felt the strain and it did not feel healthy. The lock/unlock idea is the same idea as the straight leg/bent leg wall stretches, but here seems to really target the Achilles Tendon. I'll incorporate these stretches into my regimen and see where it takes me.
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