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Back in the saddle again

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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  John Kilpatrick on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:32 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@Nick Morris wrote:Didn't I tell you to start back slowly? Smile

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

Smart es. Yeah yeah, I know. Marathon is in basically 9 weeks. I know I couldn't race it but I thought maybe I could just run it for fun and wanted to at least be in some sort of condition to give it a go. Yeah, I know. And after the first week, the running didn't really feel hard - except I did no real speed work. Actually felt really, really good - and pretty easy. Why does this have to be so damned hard (to NOT run I mean)?!?!?! Curses.....

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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  Mark B on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:00 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Scary that your doctor can recommend somebody to stab you with a needle but not show you how to get your muscles in balance.

Yes, that is sort of scary - but he did want me in PT sooner rather than later - we talked about muscle imbalance and I told him I was working on strength - but he also explained that you can be strong and still have imbalance issues that need to be addressed. He definitely wants me to begin a program but wanted me working with a PT. Is that good or bad? I don't know, I just want to run comfortably again!

It's bad for the short term, because it means you have an underlying problem that won't fix itself. Good for the long term because fixing it could allow you to keep running years longer than you would otherwise if you just let it go.

PT involves building strength, but in very specific ways and in very specific places. It's more about restoring (or in some cases establishing) proper function and mechanics than building "strength" per se. It's about making the right muscles strong and to teach them to fire when they're supposed to. That happens less often than you might think. You can be "strong" and totally dysfunctional mechanically.

As a very wise PT told me once, many athletes have significant levels of dysfunction but still manage to get themselves down the road. It takes a lot for that dysfunction to turn to an injury, but it usually does, eventually. And fixing it means going much farther back on the chain of dysfunction than the athlete ever expects.

It sounds like PT would be a great idea for you. I hope you can get it done.
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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  Nick Morris on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:08 pm

@John Kilpatrick wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@Nick Morris wrote:Didn't I tell you to start back slowly? Smile

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

Smart es. Yeah yeah, I know. Marathon is in basically 9 weeks. I know I couldn't race it but I thought maybe I could just run it for fun and wanted to at least be in some sort of condition to give it a go. Yeah, I know. And after the first week, the running didn't really feel hard - except I did no real speed work. Actually felt really, really good - and pretty easy. Why does this have to be so damned hard (to NOT run I mean)?!?!?! Curses.....

I think it is just the way that we (runners) are wired...go, go, go. It really does take discipline to not overdue it. I find myself thinking and doing the same things that you are, but I have come to realize thatI will never reach my goals if I don't make it to the starting line (healthy).
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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  JohnP on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:36 pm

It was interesting to read your doc visit observations, I had similar ones in December. You definitely need to dial back or start slower if your knee is hurting that much already, as hard as that might be.
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confessions of a stubborn ass

Post  John Kilpatrick on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:57 pm

I am a stubborn ass. You know it (well, I've heard it enough anyway). I know it. When I get to run, I feel on top of the world. When I don't get to run, I think about wanting to run all of the time. Two promising years - getting faster, getting fitter, running longer and farther. Some decent triathlons to boot. Not so much anymore.

Miss running and racing so much I thought I'd give it a try now and just let pain guide how much or how far I run. Ran a little bit - feels good. Ran more, feels better. Ran more, little aches and pains, but overall felt good. Speed workouts - feel a little pain so back off. Start to feel confident that maybe I can run an upcoming marathon just for fun. Heart rate begins to come back within closer to normal at paces. Beginning to dream about maybe even running another 3:30 marathon or faster - and looking at fall marathons maybe to go back for the 3:05-3:10. I've been active my "off time" with cycling, running, P90, insanity, etc. so tricked myself into thinking that maybe my legs are stronger/more durable now and I will be fine.

And now, here I am again. Feel like Lance Armstrong - maybe not the lies, but just as stupid.

Now, knee pain. never had it before, but it is in the same leg as my "bad" hamstring, pelvis, etc. Wanted to run a test half marathon this weekend, but nope. Tried to run 6 miles Wednesday and didn't even make it 5 before I started to run/walk/limp. Leg is fine when not running, but now - no more running. Again. It was so much fun while it lasted (like - a month). Time to stop deluding myself into thinking I can be a good runner (I know that is subjective, but good to me anyway)? I don't want to totally give up hope, but here I am again. Pelvis still not right and now a knee.

In a short time running has become such a part of me - and I have so many dreams and goals with running that I hate to give it up. Should I (rhetorical question)? At one point in time I KNEW I could break 3 hours in a marathon - just a matter of putting in the time and work. I KNEW I could break 5 hours in a 70.3. I thought I could run maybe a few of those trail ultramarathons that sound like so much fun. Break 19 in a 5K, break 40 in a 10K. Not that any of that really matters, but it was fun to think about.

Now, I might have to come to grips with the fact that I might never do any of that. Maybe more than a race is I always loved the training. I love the feeling (we all do I suppose) of coming in after a 20 miler on a summer morning completely wrung out but feeling like you just cleansed your soul somehow.

No, life is not over, but I feel like I'm losing a good friend who is moving on and I may or may not ever get to spend any quality time with him/her ever again.

Sucks.

And if I wasn't such a stubborn ass and was more honest with myself, none of this may of ever happened. But, it is what it is and I am what I am.

And, you are correct. You did tell me so.

Have a good weekend.


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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:48 pm

Ok, I'm not a doctor and I don't often play one on the Internet, but I'm wondering if the knee is really something awful or related to the muscle imbalances and weaknesses of which you spoke. Like MarkB, I suffered from what is often called "Dead butt Syndrome" when your glutes aren't really engaged and you tend to use your hammies and quads too much. Well this can also result in knee pain especially if you are overworking the quads and are tight in other areas like the psoas, TFL, and QL muscles. Before giving up, you might want to see a chiro friend of mine in Atlanta - Dr. Josh Glass. He works with lots of runners, practices ART as well as chiro, and might be able to help with issues. shoot even a good massage therapist can help with some of these issues. IMHO, alternative routes often help more than traditional ones. This might not be as bad as you think. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:51 pm

I'm going pitch in a couple more pennies, myself.

Would you take your car to the junkyard when a mechanic tells you its front end is out of alignment?

The root of the problems you've been experiencing lately has probably always been there. Over time, your body has been compensating for whatever muscle imbalance or whatever the underlying problem might be. It worked for a while, but those supporting muscles and structures that have been carrying more of a load than they were designed to handle are failing. That's totally natural.

When that situation develops, trying to address only the most recent symptom becomes a game of physiological whack-a-mole. Take care of that aggravating hip problem (whap!) and then the knee acts up. Deal with the knee (whap! whap!) and your ankle starts giving you trouble. Fix the ankle (whap! whap! whap!) and then your #$@#! sacrum goes out of whack.

Chasing symptoms is a fool's errand. You've got to get to the root of the problem, because things happen for a reason. It could be a weak butt, or poorly developed core. It could be a leg length discrepancy. It could be habitual overstriding. Heck, it could even be too-small shoes!

So. You're not ready for the junkyard. Hope is not lost. You can deal with this.

But... you'll never get started until you find someone who can help you unravel the mystery. Then you can put all your dedication and ambition to work to resolve the problems and start again. So get at it!
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Re: Back in the saddle again

Post  Julie on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:39 pm

I agree, don't give up. I would keep looking for someone who can help you find the root of a problem, a different PT or something. I have a friend from my running group who hasn't run with us for years because of a doctor she is seeing who has been giving her treatment that doesn't work. The PT in our group has asked why she keeps doing it if it doesn't work. It doesn't hurt to keep looking for answers. I know running is really important to you and I hate to see you mourning the loss of running already.
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Re: Back in the saddle again

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