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The 3rd time's a charm!

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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm back amongst the living after a few days in Minnesota with little to no internet access! I got all my runs in as scheduled, although I did have to go to the Y up there to get them in unfortunately. Here's what I've done so far this week:

Mon-6 easy
Tues-8 GA @ 7:35; 1st 7 were at 7:40 or so and knocked out the last mile @ 6:49
Wed-10 @ 8:23
Thur-4 @ 8:59 and I'll do another 6 later tonight at about the same pace.


I had an interesting conversation with my uncle that I may put up a post about in the Coffee Shop section, but he ran a couple of marathons back in the 80s and had some interesting things to say about some of the training guidelines that were in place back then. He said when he ran Twin Cities, he was under prepared because he had only gone as far as 22 miles. Then, when he ran Grandma's the next year (I think) he said he did a couple of 30 milers and lots of miles at his goal pace. He ran a 10K in 36:xx and his marathon best was 3:12, which tells me that those training ideas were not even close to good. I couldn't sniff 36:xx right now and will (in theory) be ready to go sub 3:10 in Chicago this fall while maybe being in shape to go under 40:00 in the 10K on a good day. Just interesting some of the training myths that science has dispelled over the years.


Last edited by mul21 on Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:38 pm

Hope the 6 went well in your heat. Why not do the 6 in am 4pm? Mornings much cooler
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:44 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:Hope the 6 went well in your heat. Why not do the 6 in am 4pm? Mornings much cooler

Mostly because I felt like ass this morning and it was already 85 with lots of humidity, but also because I was short on time and trying to get on the road for a 6 hour car ride. I hate morning running more than you can possibly imagine. I run much better at night, so it's just easier for me that way. afro
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Alex Kubacki on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Do you know what kind of tapering that guy was doing back then before a marathon? Just curious.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:52 pm

@mul21 wrote:
@Kenny B. wrote:Hope the 6 went well in your heat. Why not do the 6 in am 4pm? Mornings much cooler

Mostly because I felt like ass this morning and it was already 85 with lots of humidity, but also because I was short on time and trying to get on the road for a 6 hour car ride. I hate morning running more than you can possibly imagine. I run much better at night, so it's just easier for me that way. afro

I am the opposite so what you say makes sense. Forgot you are a pm runner!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Mike MacLellan on Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:43 pm

Interesting that he thought 22-milers left him unprepared, but I can see how 30-milers and lots of MP mileage could be beneficial to certain runners... Mainly those whose bodies could handle the long runs. But yeah, we've definitely come a lot closer to finding out the bare minimum necessary to run the fastest races possible at our fitness levels.

Nice workouts lately; looks to be exactly on par for your goals.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Natalie on Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:01 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:Hope the 6 went well in your heat. Why not do the 6 in am 4pm? Mornings much cooler

This just sounds like hell to me...
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:47 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Interesting that he thought 22-milers left him unprepared, but I can see how 30-milers and lots of MP mileage could be beneficial to certain runners... Mainly those whose bodies could handle the long runs. But yeah, we've definitely come a lot closer to finding out the bare minimum necessary to run the fastest races possible at our fitness levels.

Nice workouts lately; looks to be exactly on par for your goals.

Very interesting about the 22 milers moved to 30 milers. I'm the runner who would not benefit from that many miles. I ran my only sub-3 with long runs of no more than 16-18 miles. I did lots of them and also a lot of tempo runs and a great deal of speedwork. I always seem to crash and burn when I run higher mileage for a long period of time.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:49 am

@Alex Kubacki wrote:Do you know what kind of tapering that guy was doing back then before a marathon? Just curious.

No idea, but I think the 3 week taper has been pretty standard for a while now, so it wouldn't surprise me if he did that. The 30 milers just amazed me though.

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Interesting that he thought 22-milers left him unprepared, but I can see how 30-milers and lots of MP mileage could be beneficial to certain runners... Mainly those whose bodies could handle the long runs. But yeah, we've definitely come a lot closer to finding out the bare minimum necessary to run the fastest races possible at our fitness levels.

Nice workouts lately; looks to be exactly on par for your goals.

Thanks Mike. If those were still the prevailing thoughts, I'd have probably retired from marathoning by now!

Natalie Wolf wrote:
@Kenny B. wrote:Hope the 6 went well in your heat. Why not do the 6 in am 4pm? Mornings much cooler

This just sounds like hell to me...

Eh, it's not so bad, especially during a week of vacation where work doesn't interfere with anything.

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:

Very interesting about the 22 milers moved to 30 milers. I'm the runner who would not benefit from that many miles. I ran my only sub-3 with long runs of no more than 16-18 miles. I did lots of them and also a lot of tempo runs and a great deal of speedwork. I always seem to crash and burn when I run higher mileage for a long period of time.

I'm right there with you! Definitely my largest area of struggle, much like you. 12-14 seems to be a real comfort zone for me, but long runs really become work once I get over 16.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:14 pm

Ok, after a week of vacation, it was back to reality today. I got in a solid week during week 2 of Chicago training, ending the week with 54 miles total.

Nothing too difficult last week, but building mileage a bit before Dave really starts beating me up.

This week is off to an inauspicious start, with a stomach bug of some sort cutting my tempo yesterday from 10 w/6 @ tempo to 6 w/2 @ tempo. I'll make up a couple miles today and tomorrow assuming I feel a bit better by this evening.

I do have a mile race (well, a 1600 meter) scheduled for tomorrow night and I think I should be able to be in the 5:20s with a good effort and if I surprise myself, maybe under 5:20. That was always my best event in high school.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  healdgator on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:40 pm

@mul21 wrote:Ok, after a week of vacation, it was back to reality today. I got in a solid week during week 2 of Chicago training, ending the week with 54 miles total.

Nothing too difficult last week, but building mileage a bit before Dave really starts beating me up.

This week is off to an inauspicious start, with a stomach bug of some sort cutting my tempo yesterday from 10 w/6 @ tempo to 6 w/2 @ tempo. I'll make up a couple miles today and tomorrow assuming I feel a bit better by this evening.

I do have a mile race (well, a 1600 meter) scheduled for tomorrow night and I think I should be able to be in the 5:20s with a good effort and if I surprise myself, maybe under 5:20. That was always my best event in high school.

It was my best race as well. I think I could break 6:30 now. Maybe. Depressing.

Where do you find these mile races?
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:20 pm

@healdgator wrote:

It was my best race as well. I think I could break 6:30 now. Maybe. Depressing.

Where do you find these mile races?

This is the same one I ran last year. The local running club has done it the last 2 years. There was also one in St. Louis on Monday night that was a street mile. There was also one in my hometown that was awesome because the first 1/4 mile was straight down a hill. Still (and probably always will be) my mile PR at I think 4:43.

Try a local running club and see if they have any meets or know of any. Most decent sized cities have a "track meet" of some sort during the summer.

Hey, you might surprise yourself. Last year I was shooting for a sub 6:00 and ran a 5:40. I'd forgotten how quickly the pain goes away from racing just a mile. It's kind of nice!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Jim Lentz on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:32 pm

Good luck with your 1600, Jim!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:43 pm

Nice mileage total for week 2 of your training. What does Dave have you peaking out at?

I have never ran a mile race before. Maybe I'll try to find one around the area. Good luck in the 1600 meter race!!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:45 am

@Jim Lentz wrote:Good luck with your 1600, Jim!

Thanks Jim! May or may not happen depending on how I feel at the end of the day. I'm fighting off the dreaded summer cold right now and haven't made a decision yet as to whether or not I'm going to do it.

@Nick Morris wrote:Nice mileage total for week 2 of your training. What does Dave have you peaking out at?

I have never ran a mile race before. Maybe I'll try to find one around the area. Good luck in the 1600 meter race!!

I'm not sure what he'll have me peaking out at, but I would guess it's probably going to be in the 75 range or so. He had me scheduled for a 72 mile week last time around, but I hit a rough patch right around then and had to back off a bit.

The mile is fun, but it's definitely something that takes practice to be good at because it's such a short race you have to nail it perfectly or you won't run as fast as you potentially could.

I got in a solid 8 miles last night at right around 8:30 pace and I'll make the call on the mile race later today. Regardless, the plan is to get in 10 miles tonight and 12 tomorrow to stay on track for the week and hit 58 total this week.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Chris M on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:40 pm

5:20! Good God, you are such a sandbagger. You run something like that for the race (tonight?), we should be running all of Chicago together.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:51 pm

@Chris M wrote:5:20! Good God, you are such a sandbagger. You run something like that for the race (tonight?), we should be running all of Chicago together.

Well, 5:20 wasn't quite in the cards. Between feeling crappy this week and how hot it was, I gave back some time in laps 2 and 3 but was able to hold on and even outkicked a guy in the last 100m to finish in 5:29.8. Mission accomplished, sub 5:30!

I also got in 10 total miles for the day and assuming I've got the legs for it, I'll still be on track for the 58 Dave has on the schedule this week after 12 tomorrow.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Nick Morris on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:55 pm

5:29 is still a sweet time!! Good work getting back on track with your weekly mileage.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  JohnP on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:57 pm

Nice time, Jim! That had to be cool, outkicking someone in the last 100 meters. You've been pretty consistent with your training.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Alex Kubacki on Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:51 am

Great job on the 5:29. With your training you're definately on your way to a big PR this fall.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Jim Lentz on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:50 am

Nice job getting under 5:30.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Dave-O on Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:10 am

You still got some wheels old man. tongue
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  healdgator on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:30 am

@mul21 wrote:
@Chris M wrote:5:20! Good God, you are such a sandbagger. You run something like that for the race (tonight?), we should be running all of Chicago together.

Well, 5:20 wasn't quite in the cards. Between feeling crappy this week and how hot it was, I gave back some time in laps 2 and 3 but was able to hold on and even outkicked a guy in the last 100m to finish in 5:29.8. Mission accomplished, sub 5:30!

I also got in 10 total miles for the day and assuming I've got the legs for it, I'll still be on track for the 58 Dave has on the schedule this week after 12 tomorrow.

Nice, very well done.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:21 pm

5:29 dam man. Seems like you have been holding back on us. GREAT JOB.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:30 pm

@Nick Morris wrote:5:29 is still a sweet time!! Good work getting back on track with your weekly mileage.

Thanks Nick, I still have the dreaded long run to do this week, but I'm ahead of the game now.

@JohnP wrote:Nice time, Jim! That had to be cool, outkicking someone in the last 100 meters. You've been pretty consistent with your training.

Thanks John! It really is an amazing feeling and I'm usually so gassed at the end of a 5 or 10K that there's nothing left in the tank for a sprint.

@Alex Kubacki wrote:Great job on the 5:29. With your training you're definately on your way to a big PR this fall.

Thanks Alex, my fingers are crossed that everything continues to go well!

@Jim Lentz wrote:Nice job getting under 5:30.

Thanks Jim! Hope the legs start feeling better and you can start knocking out the miles.

@Dave-O wrote:You still got some wheels old man. tongue

Who you callin' old? In about 6 months, we'd have been in the same age group! affraid

@healdgator wrote:

Nice, very well done.

Thanks Brian, when are you gonna get out there and blow out a lung or hammy in a 1600?

@Kenny B. wrote:5:29 dam man. Seems like you have been holding back on us. GREAT JOB.

I wouldn't exactly say holding back, I've just been training for long stuff and I have a little bit of natural speed left. I really need to spend a cycle working on 5k/10k specific endurance to really knock those times down a bit. Maybe next spring, assuming I get my BQ in Chicago.
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