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The 3rd time's a charm!

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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Well, the week took a bit of an interesting turn last night during my run. I went to Forest Park in downtown St. Louis to run so I could work the hill climbing muscles a bit. It was sprinkling a bit when I started, but no big deal. Then, about 3 miles into my planned 12, the downpour started. I really don't mind running in the rain and was actually enjoying the cooling effect it was having. I was wearing a hat, so I wasn't getting any rain in my eyes, and although everything else was soaked, I planned to keep going through 12 when I hit mile 5. Unfortunately, at that point, the lightning started. Not something I mess around with. By the third thunder crack/lightning strike, I was in my car and done for the night after 6.5 miles.

So, that left me 5.5 miles short of my plan for the night and without a true mid week long run even though I had done 10 total the night before. After a quick consult with Dave, I decided to get in a super easy 7.5 today and with the weekend going as planned, I'll hit 60 this week. So, a hilly 6.5 last night somewhere around 8:20 pace and then 7.5 today at around 8:50 pace to bring me to 38 for the week.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:19 pm

Mother nature had other plans for you. Carry on with no worries.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Jim Lentz on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:32 pm

You do what you have to do.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:38 pm

She certainly did Kenny!

I found the results from this calculator interesting (read: slightly optimistic) based on my mile the other night:

Distance Time min/mile
1500 m 05:05.3 05:27.5
1 mile 05:29.8 05:29.8
3000 m 10:53.6 05:50.6
2 miles 11:45.4 05:52.7
5K 0:18:50 0:06:04
8K 30:52.8 06:12.8
10K 39:03.3 06:17.1
10 miles 1:04:43 06:28.3
20K 1:21:37 06:34.1
Half
marathon
1:26:26 06:35.6
30K 2:05:50 06:45.0
Marathon 3:00:19 06:52.6
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Seth Harrison on Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:34 am

@mul21 wrote:She certainly did Kenny!

I found the results from this calculator interesting (read: slightly optimistic) based on my mile the other night:

Distance Time min/mile
1500 m 05:05.3 05:27.5
1 mile 05:29.8 05:29.8
3000 m 10:53.6 05:50.6
2 miles 11:45.4 05:52.7
5K 0:18:50 0:06:04
8K 30:52.8 06:12.8
10K 39:03.3 06:17.1
10 miles 1:04:43 06:28.3
20K 1:21:37 06:34.1
Half
marathon
1:26:26 06:35.6
30K 2:05:50 06:45.0
Marathon 3:00:19 06:52.6

If this is accurate, I'm loving that projection for the marathon time. Got to work on those last 19 seconds though!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:04 am

@Seth Harrison wrote:

If this is accurate, I'm loving that projection for the marathon time. Got to work on those last 19 seconds though!

Oh, I'd love it too Seth, but I think that one in particular is waaaaay optimistic. I think if things go well during training and the race I can hit 3:05, but sub 3:00 is still just a bit of a stretch at this point. This just reaffirms that the mile has always been my best race.

I was having a pretty darn good week of running until last night. I wasn't able to get out for my run until early evening yesterday and after 8 miles I had to cash in my chips. The 90+ degrees and who knows how high humidity just beat me up. I hit 4 miles at 33 minutes and change and finished the 8 at just under 1:10. Ugly. And it prevented me from hitting 60 for the week unfortunately.

So, even though this week was supposed to be a bit of a step back, I think I'm going to do 12 tonight, go easy/short tomorrow and then do my tempo and mid week long run Wednesday and Thursday.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Joel H on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:13 am

5:29....damn that is fast man! I am glad I wasn't in your race. I agree though, racing the mile is something you have to practice because you don't have any margin for error. I plan on running it again next year to get in a bit more practice. Glad to see you didn't mess with the lightning, definitely not something to mess around with.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:39 am

That is a FAST mile. You reminded me of how bad I hated the St. Louis summers sometimes. Looking great in the training with the exception of the mother nature curveballs...

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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:11 pm

Sub-3:05 sounds mighty good to me.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Tom H on Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:28 pm

Love to see your progress Jim. You've come a long way over the past couple of years and clearly have some great races ahead of you.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Jim great view of potential times. You have certainly narrowed the gap to going sub 3:00 just work on one race at a time. Next thing you know you will be touching down in the 2's.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Dave-O on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:33 pm

@mul21 wrote:

Oh, I'd love it too Seth, but I think that one in particular is waaaaay optimistic. I think if things go well during training and the race I can hit 3:05, but sub 3:00 is still just a bit of a stretch at this point. This just reaffirms that the mile has always been my best race.

I was having a pretty darn good week of running until last night. I wasn't able to get out for my run until early evening yesterday and after 8 miles I had to cash in my chips. The 90+ degrees and who knows how high humidity just beat me up. I hit 4 miles at 33 minutes and change and finished the 8 at just under 1:10. Ugly. And it prevented me from hitting 60 for the week unfortunately.

So, even though this week was supposed to be a bit of a step back, I think I'm going to do 12 tonight, go easy/short tomorrow and then do my tempo and mid week long run Wednesday and Thursday.

May be optimistic for now, but there's no reason to think we can't get your endurance to match your mile speed. I believe you will run a sub-3:00 in the next two years.

Let me know how the 12 goes tonight so I can adjust accordingly.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:08 pm

@Dave-O wrote:

May be optimistic for now, but there's no reason to think we can't get your endurance to match your mile speed. I believe you will run a sub-3:00 in the next two years.

Let me know how the 12 goes tonight so I can adjust accordingly.

Oh, I agree with you, and I think I can get there on less average mileage than most might think is necessary. My thought has been that, assuming I get my BQ in Chicago, that next spring I would train for some shorter stuff and maybe run a mid to late spring half to develop some of that top end speed stamina I'm a little weak on right now. Then, go for the sub 3:00 next fall.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:34 am

You have come a long way pretty quickly. Just amazes me the hidden talent some people have on this forum and to watch it unfold is beautiful.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:05 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:You have come a long way pretty quickly. Just amazes me the hidden talent some people have on this forum and to watch it unfold is beautiful.

Wow, I think I'm blushing!

6 pretty easy miles tonight after coming to a consensus with Dave on altering the rest of the week a bit. I'm absolutely amazed at how low my HR has been on some of these recovery runs. I averaged right at 8:50 pace tonight and my avg. HR was only 133 with a max of 200-205.

My first real tempo of the cycle is tomorrow, and shouldn't be a big issue since it's just 10 total with 2 x 2 @ tempo.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:09 pm

@mul21 wrote:
Oh, I agree with you, and I think I can get there on less average mileage than most might think is necessary. My thought has been that, assuming I get my BQ in Chicago, that next spring I would train for some shorter stuff and maybe run a mid to late spring half to develop some of that top end speed stamina I'm a little weak on right now. Then, go for the sub 3:00 next fall.

I totally agree with you that sub 3:00 is reachable and at less miles than most might think. Depending on how this fall goes, I may shoot for sub 3:00 next fall, as well...

Great work Jim!!!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  John Kilpatrick on Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:20 pm

Nice to see how the body responds with a lower HR - that is really something considering the time of year it is. Looking good!

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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:14 am

Last night was my first real tempo run of the cycle after last Monday's aborted attempt because I felt like crap. The plan was 10 miles total with 2 x 2 mile tempo and a half mile rest interval between them. It went much better (and faster) than I expected. I did a 3 mile warm up at around 8:18 pace and then did the first set at 6:53 and 6:49. That went so well and I recovered so quickly that I decided to crank it up a bit for the second set. I did that one at 6:40 and 6:35 and still never hit 85% of HR max. I don't think I'd be able to handle a normal 6 mile tempo with more than one mile at the end at that pace, but considering at the end of my last cycle I was pushing it to do one mile at the end at 6:49, I'm pretty encouraged by the results I saw last night. Only 30 more miles to go for the week!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:36 am

@mul21 wrote:
@Kenny B. wrote:You have come a long way pretty quickly. Just amazes me the hidden talent some people have on this forum and to watch it unfold is beautiful.

Wow, I think I'm blushing!

6 pretty easy miles tonight after coming to a consensus with Dave on altering the rest of the week a bit. I'm absolutely amazed at how low my HR has been on some of these recovery runs. I averaged right at 8:50 pace tonight and my avg. HR was only 133 with a max of 200-205.

My first real tempo of the cycle is tomorrow, and shouldn't be a big issue since it's just 10 total with 2 x 2 @ tempo.


You don't have to be shy with me. lol!


@mul21 wrote:Last night was my first real tempo run of the cycle after last Monday's aborted attempt because I felt like crap. The plan was 10 miles total with 2 x 2 mile tempo and a half mile rest interval between them. It went much better (and faster) than I expected. I did a 3 mile warm up at around 8:18 pace and then did the first set at 6:53 and 6:49. That went so well and I recovered so quickly that I decided to crank it up a bit for the second set. I did that one at 6:40 and 6:35 and still never hit 85% of HR max. I don't think I'd be able to handle a normal 6 mile tempo with more than one mile at the end at that pace, but considering at the end of my last cycle I was pushing it to do one mile at the end at 6:49, I'm pretty encouraged by the results I saw last night. Only 30 more miles to go for the week!

This is a huge confidence builder and sign you are improving tremendously. You never hit 85% of max so I can understand why this felt a bit easier then a typical Tempo run. You may not be able to hit 6 right now and stay in HR zone but no doubt as you build up you will with no issues.

My 2x2 of recent was at 7:08 hitting 83% and 85% with 3 min interval (.34 miles about) in between and it felt on the easy side for sure. I typically will get to 87% for LT FCR . I think half mile recovery interval is bit too long for you on a 2x2. Talk to your coach. scratch
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Seth Harrison on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:27 pm

@mul21 wrote:Last night was my first real tempo run of the cycle after
last Monday's aborted attempt because I felt like crap. The plan was
10 miles total with 2 x 2 mile tempo and a half mile rest interval
between them. It went much better (and faster) than I expected. I did a
3 mile warm up at around 8:18 pace and then did the first set at 6:53
and 6:49. That went so well and I recovered so quickly that I decided
to crank it up a bit for the second set. I did that one at 6:40 and
6:35 and still never hit 85% of HR max. I don't think I'd be able to
handle a normal 6 mile tempo with more than one mile at the end at that
pace, but considering at the end of my last cycle I was pushing it to do
one mile at the end at 6:49, I'm pretty encouraged by the results I saw
last night. Only 30 more miles to go for the week!

Excellent tempo run Jim! That's one heck of a confidence booster.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Schuey on Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:04 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:You have come a long way pretty quickly. Just amazes me the hidden talent some people have on this forum and to watch it unfold is beautiful.

Yep it is amazing what Jim has done and other on this forum. What it comes down to is how much you want it, how hard and smart you work at it. There is no doubt Jim that you have been putting the work in and working hard at it. It has been a lot of funny watching you and others improve month after month and get closer to achieving your goals!

Great Tempo run by the way and man you sure do have some bad luck on your long runs if it's not lighting it is hotter then hell. Maybe one of these days you will catch a break on your long runs. "If the thunder doesn't get you then the lightning will!"

Keep up the solid training.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Schuey on Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:10 pm

Hey you getting ready for that heat wave we are about to get hit with? Looks like it is going to be crazy hot through next week. Make sure you get up early so you don't have to cut those long runs short buddy!
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:22 pm

@Schuey wrote:Hey you getting ready for that heat wave we are about to get hit with? Looks like it is going to be crazy hot through next week. Make sure you get up early so you don't have to cut those long runs short buddy!

I have a feeling I'm going to be spending a lot of time on a mill Schuey! It totally sucks and I thought I was done with them after winter was over but this heat has just been brutal. Highs of 92 and 94 this weekend and then 98, 99, and 99 next Monday-Wednesday. Awful.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:06 pm

Looking very speedy, Jim! Whatever Dave is having you do, keep it up!

I have to admit that I'll never understand the Midwest. Freeze in the winter. Tornadoes in the spring. Fry in the summer. When is the weather good?
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

Post  mul21 on Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:21 pm

@Mark B wrote:Looking very speedy, Jim! Whatever Dave is having you do, keep it up!

I have to admit that I'll never understand the Midwest. Freeze in the winter. Tornadoes in the spring. Fry in the summer. When is the weather good?

Well, you just gotta pick your spots! It's actually really pretty nice most of the time between April and October in northern Illinois, but this St. Louis stuff is an entirely different animal. I do get a lot more tolerable winter weather, but I'd trade that in a heartbeat for some more palatable summer running conditions. The biggest difference down here is that it never really seems to cool off at night, whereas up north it's almost always dipping down into the 60s at night, even when it's really hot during the day.

I'm going to test the weather tomorrow morning though. I just did 8 GA miles at 7:40 pace and I'm getting up at the crack of dawn tomorrow to get in my long run with a buddy. It may be interesting between the short recovery period and the weather I'm anticipating. Hopefully being done by 8:15 will spare us from the nasty stuff.
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Re: The 3rd time's a charm!

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