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No Longer a Fool

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  wheakory on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:13 pm

I've always trained to try and at least get 10 miles in one run. I think it increases your endurance faster than a double run and splitting the miles. For me its seemed to work.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Matt W on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:37 pm


It seems like the new training system is working for you and hopefully produces the results you are looking for this fall. The summer before my best races, I ran a lot of 10-12 mile runs at solid, but not crazy paces, like you are doing. I think it's a good system, but takes some getting used to.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Julie on Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:07 pm

I'm slow but after a few months of mid week 8-12 milers, 10 miles doesn't seem bad. I'm supposed to run 2 - 12 miles during this week (then 20 on Sunday). It's not the distance as much as it means I have to get up extra early. Looks like your training is going really well. I'm eager to see how your fall racing goes.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:03 am

kory.wheatley@gmail.com wrote:I've always trained to try and at least get 10 miles in one run. I think it increases your endurance faster than a double run and splitting the miles. For me its seemed to work.

Yes, I agree. I got a little too far away from that and too reliant on doubles.

@Matt W wrote:
It seems like the new training system is working for you and hopefully produces the results you are looking for this fall. The summer before my best races, I ran a lot of 10-12 mile runs at solid, but not crazy paces, like you are doing. I think it's a good system, but takes some getting used to.

It has definitely worked to quickly build my base. I'm anxious for workouts now!

@Julie wrote:I'm slow but after a few months of mid week 8-12 milers, 10 miles doesn't seem bad. I'm supposed to run 2 - 12 miles during this week (then 20 on Sunday). It's not the distance as much as it means I have to get up extra early. Looks like your training is going really well. I'm eager to see how your fall racing goes.

Thanks Julie. Its a bit of a mental adjustment, but like you said, 8-10 milers start to seem "short."
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Martin VW on Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:08 pm

@Dave-O wrote:
kory.wheatley@gmail.com wrote:I've always trained to try and at least get 10 miles in one run. I think it increases your endurance faster than a double run and splitting the miles. For me its seemed to work.

Yes, I agree. I got a little too far away from that and too reliant on doubles.

So, what does this mean for your clients?
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:53 pm

Week 6 of Chicago Training: July 23 – 29

Monday: 10 miles – 1:12:42, 7:16 pace. Just playing it nice and easy coming off my first 20 miler in over 3 months. A little stiff to start, but loosened up nicely as the run progressed.

Tuesday: 12 miles – 1:13:03, 6:05 pace. The temperature when I left my office this evening was 74 degrees; or as I like to call it during this summer, “heavenly.” I couldn’t believe the difference it made. My third mile was right at 6:00 so I decided to roll with it. It’s these types of runs that reinforce just how strong my aerobic base is right now.

Wednesday: 4 miles – 30:31, 7:35 pace. 12 miles – 1:21:01, 6:45 pace. I ran the exact same route home as yesterday. The difference? 26 degrees. It was 100 when I left the office, and frankly, today’s run at 6:45 pace was harder than yesterday’s 40 seconds per mile faster. This summer sucks.

Thursday: 14 miles – 1:35:56, 6:51 pace. You guys, you have no idea how much I hate running in the morning. I think I’d quit before having to do it every day. With softball at 6:30 tonight, I had to log this one early. It was a total grind. I think it’s the first run that I really haven’t enjoyed since the start of training, so I won’t complain. I’ll just stick to running at 6:00 pm instead of am.

Friday: 6 miles – untimed. So I decided to run the Big10k tomorrow morning. Note the use of “run,” not race. Without a single speed workout since early May, I have zero expectations for tomorrow other than it being a tempo run.

Saturday: 14 miles total – 4 mile w/up, 10k in 35:28, 4 mile c/d. And it went exactly as I expected: I was able to run strong at 5:35-5:45 pace, but had no leg speed to drop the pace. I’m pretty sure I could have held this pace for another 4 to 6 miles. But if you asked me to drop the hammer to a 5:20 pace, I really don’t know if I could have. Don’t take that as complaint; I’m well aware of what type of fitness I have right now. I would much prefer to be in this position than being able to run fast for 2-3 miles with no stamina. I do hope, though, that today’s effort serves as a segue to more speed work.

Sunday: 20 miles – 2:13:36, 6:41. My second 20 miler was about 10 seconds/mile quicker than the first. My effort was similarly steady; perhaps a little more fatigued in the last 4 coming off yesterday’s tempo effort. If there’s one thing I know for sure about this program in the next two months, it’s that there are a lot of 20’s coming my way. Giddy up.

Week: 92
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:54 pm

@Martin VW wrote:
@Dave-O wrote:
kory.wheatley@gmail.com wrote:I've always trained to try and at least get 10 miles in one run. I think it increases your endurance faster than a double run and splitting the miles. For me its seemed to work.

Yes, I agree. I got a little too far away from that and too reliant on doubles.

So, what does this mean for your clients?

For the time being, nothing. I don't have any clients for the summer/fall. I greatly enjoyed coaching Chris, Jim, and John, but for right now, I needed to turn my brain off completely and fully commit to just running what I've told on a daily basis.

I don't think Chris was ever overly reliant on doubles, though. Even when he'd run 90-100, he would only log 3 or 4 doubles.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:42 am

Week 7 of Chicago Training: July 30 – August 5

Monday: 8 miles – 57:52, 7:14 pace. Right as I was feeling in the groove, getting used to high mileage, long runs, and a tempo, my coach hits me with….a step-back week. 80 miles?!?!!? Damn! I was anticipating my first triple digit week. I guess that will have to wait one more, while I log what he calls a “re-charge” week.

Tuesday: 10 miles – 1:02:15, 6:14 pace. Two months ago the thought of a double digit run worried me. Today I thought to myself, “sweet, only 10 moderate miles.” Marathon training isn’t just physical my friends.

Wednesday: 4 miles – 30:19, 7:35 pace. 12 miles – 1:19:03, 6:35 pace. Since my longest mid-week run on schedule is just 12 miles, I decided to double up this afternoon to create some additional fatigue. Though not scheduling doubles yet, I do have permission to add one or two easy 4 milers at lunch in connection with easy weights and core work.

Thursday: 10 miles – 1:00:24, 6:02 pace. You know what tonight was? My first run in the Flyknit Racers!!!! Yeah yeah, I know it’s pathetic how excited I get over new shoes, but hey, any motivation helps, right? On schedule tonight was a progression run with 4 miles of goal marathon pace to be included. After a 4 mile steady warm-up (6:49, 6:33, 6:11, 6:00) I dropped to goal pace (5:50, 5:44, 5:44, 5:36). Smooth sailing. Because I felt so fresh, I decided to open it up for a mile and start working on some speed. So mile 9 was 5:17. My turnover still felt sloppy, but it will get there. A mile cool down in 6:35 and a solid workout was in the books.

Friday: 10 miles – 1:12:20, 7:14 pace. After settling a case this morning in the suburbs, I decided to take the afternoon off and head to Waterfall Glen. That’s why it’s necessary to always have shorts and a pair of shoes in your car!

Saturday: 20 miles – 2:13:50, 6:42 pace. I swear, Wisconsin has been hotter and more humid than Chicago this summer. Every time I’m up at my condo it’s just brutal. Instead of risking a bonk on the country roads – where water and shade is scarce – I resorted to the treadmill with a giant fan blowing on me. Sure, running in place for 2:00 hours can be a little tedious and monotonous, but when the alternative is melting, I’ll take my iPod and the Olympics. In all, I went through 5 shirts, 3 pairs of shorts, and 2 pairs of socks. But, the 20 is in the books, and I spent the rest of the day drinking beer on the pontoon boat. I’ll take it.

Sunday: 6 miles – untimed. Hands down, the best part of not having to run twice per day is the freedom to get back on the golf course every now and then. Before this morning, I played three rounds this year: 98, 90, and 86. Today I shot an 83. I’m pretty sure it was the best round of my life. I don’t know what’s gotten into me, but I’m hitting the ball really well – and consistently – right now. Of course, now that my expectations are high again, I should count on a 105 next time out.

As for running, I put in 6 easy, untimed miles at about 9:00 pm, bringing my weekly total to 80. It was definitely a re-charge week. Now, next week better call for 100.

Week: 80
YTD: 2,319

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Michael Enright on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:04 pm

Nice week!

As for your comment about the tedium of running 2+ hours on the treadmill, you ought to try it for 3+ hours, just to cover the same distance!

Very Happy
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:03 pm

Hey, my brother was up on Wisc on Sat/Sun morning, too. North Country Trail or something.

Looks like training is leaving you feeling pretty good; probably what you want during your late base right now.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Chris M on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:46 pm

@Dave-O wrote:
@Martin VW wrote:
@Dave-O wrote:
kory.wheatley@gmail.com wrote:I've always trained to try and at least get 10 miles in one run. I think it increases your endurance faster than a double run and splitting the miles. For me its seemed to work.

Yes, I agree. I got a little too far away from that and too reliant on doubles.

So, what does this mean for your clients?

For the time being, nothing. I don't have any clients for the summer/fall. I greatly enjoyed coaching Chris, Jim, and John, but for right now, I needed to turn my brain off completely and fully commit to just running what I've told on a daily basis.

I don't think Chris was ever overly reliant on doubles, though. Even when he'd run 90-100, he would only log 3 or 4 doubles.

That's true. In the big big weeks I would get from Dave, there would be 3 long (one very long) single runs and then I would try and double the other days. And those were only on the weeks where I was trying for 90+. I probably did evnd up doing more doubles than Dave would schedule because it was just a whole lot easier work-wise to do 6/6 or 7/5 than a single 12 run. Probably not nearly as helpful but splitting the miles was done more out of necessity than design. I think Dave is definitely right that longer single runs are more ideal.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 am

@Michael Enright wrote:Nice week!

As for your comment about the tedium of running 2+ hours on the treadmill, you ought to try it for 3+ hours, just to cover the same distance!

Very Happy

Fair point! The first 90 seem to be fine. After that it gets tedious.

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Hey, my brother was up on Wisc on Sat/Sun morning, too. North Country Trail or something.

Looks like training is leaving you feeling pretty good; probably what you want during your late base right now.

Whoa, that's way up north! I'm barely across the IL/WI border.

Thanks. And yup, just where I want to be right now.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Alex Kubacki on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:51 pm

Dave, I'm sure you've done this but with you not being a fan of morning runs and enjoying evening runs have you looked at an evening marathon?
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:34 pm

Week 8 of Chicago Training: August 5 – 12

Monday: 14 miles – 1:27:33, 6:15 pace, with 3 x 2 miles. Week 8 isn’t just the halfway point of training. It’s also my return to triple digit weeks, and trust me; I plan to stay here for the majority of the next 8 weeks. Even better, I got to kick this week off with 3 x 2 miles at goal MP minus 12 seconds (so 5:32 target), with 400m intervals, plus permission to hammer the last mile. The results:

3 mile w/u: 6:45, 6:08, 6:22

Set 1: 5:34, 5:32
Set 2: 5:32, 5:31
Set 3: 5:31, 5:22

4 mile c/d: 7:07, 7:08, 6:59, 6:41

Set 1 wasn’t too smooth, as it took me a little while to settle into the pace. Set 2 was easier. In fact, I looked down at my Garmin a few minutes in and saw 5:18 pace. Slow down, ass. But I ended up nailing the splits. I tried to hammer the last mile of Set 3, but despite feeling strong aerobically, just don’t have any leg speed yet. In all though, a very satisfying workout.

Tuesday: 4 miles – 30:28, 7:37. 15 miles – 1:41:33, 6:46 pace. Unlike yesterday’s cooler temps – which definitely helped in the workout – today was over 90 degrees. Already fatigued from yesterday’s workout, I couldn’t take more than 10 miles outside. So I stopped at home, changed, walked to the gym, and logged the last 5 on the treadmill. I’m going to call this the summer of improvisation.

Wednesday: 10 miles – 1:14:46, 7:29 pace. A much-needed slow run, after logging 33 miles in the previous two day.

Thursday: 4 miles – 30:27, 7:37 pace. 14 miles – 1:29:25, 6:23 pace. In part because of Monday’s workout – and in part to break up the monotony of another long run – I stopped at the track off of the lakefront path and ran 8 x 400m at about 75 seconds (with 400m cruise interval) and 4 x 200m at about 34 seconds. The pace was a shock to the system, but in a good way. And I still banged out 5 miles afterwards for a solid 18 mile day.

Friday: 10 miles – 1:12:05, 7:12 pace. I was ahead of my target of 100 this week, so I was afforded the luxury of just 10 miles tonight.

Saturday: 20 miles – 2:15:57, 6:48 pace. Sometimes my social life can get in the way of running. For example, I had a birthday celebration to go to Friday night and a wedding in Peoria on Saturday. My options were: (1) skip the birthday on Friday and run 20 after work; (2) get up at 5:00 am Saturday morning to run 20 before skipping town; or (3) run 20 on Sunday, likely with a slight hangover.

Or so I thought. Britt instead came up with a 4th plan – run it during the wedding ceremony. (/pumps fist for having an understanding wife.) That idea worked especially well since the wedding reception was 16 miles away our hotel in Peoria. So I dropped Britt off at the church, grabbed my phone, and embarked on a 20 mile journey on country roads. I have to say – it couldn’t have worked out better. I made 3 pit stops at gas stations for Gatorade, but I arrived at the hotel 15 minutes after the rest of the wedding. Then I was able to enjoy the rest of the wedding without a long run having over my head.

Sunday: 10 miles – 1:12:42, 7:16 pace. My last 100 mile week was April 9th. After that I had 3 weeks of taper, 6 weeks of recovery, and 7 weeks of base building. It’s good to be back.

Week: 101
YTD: 2,420

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Chris M on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:10 pm

Nice to see you back at 100+. I'm stealing that 3x2 workout for myself for next week.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  fostever on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:51 pm

Yeah, not sure how you fit in all those miles with your busy life, but props to you Dave. Looking forward to your new PR's.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:49 pm

@Chris M wrote:Nice to see you back at 100+. I'm stealing that 3x2 workout for myself for next week.

And I don't have plans to drop back below anytime soon.

Enjoy the workout. Then make it 2-3-2 next week.

@fostever wrote:Yeah, not sure how you fit in all those miles with your busy life, but props to you Dave. Looking forward to your new PR's.

Thanks. I have been looking forward to new PRs for awhile now...
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Hmm...[checking tonight's schedule]....maybe I should head to Wrigley tonight.

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Matt W on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:15 pm

@Dave-O wrote:Hmm...[checking tonight's schedule]....maybe I should head to Wrigley tonight.


I saw that today and thought you might be interested.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Admin on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:06 am

Just thought I fly into your blog to say I'm at 46 miles / 5 runs in the last 3 days and I ain't stoppin'... I'm chasing you Dave. RUN MORE!

Cool

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:46 pm

@Mr MattM wrote:Just thought I fly into your blog to say I'm at 46 miles / 5 runs in the last 3 days and I ain't stoppin'... I'm chasing you Dave. RUN MORE!

Cool

I can only run what I am allowed to run.

I think you may beat me this week. I'll be at 46 after today as well, but am only slated for 1 more double the rest of the week.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:02 pm

Welcome back to high mileage buddy! Can't help to notice how your runs look a lot like mind from the past. Double here and there but a lot more longer single runs. Dave I really think that is going to go a long way for you come this fall, there is no doubt that you have the leg turnover and speed. Even though you were running big mileage in the past I always felt that there were a lot of short runs (lack of better term) vs the longer mid runs. I think this longer runs you are doing will really boost your aerobic engine and you will feel this boost in the later stages of the marathon.

I also think that boost will give you the confidence that late in the race the wheels are going to fall off and that you will be able to drive it into the finish fast and hard! And then you will find that PR you have been searching for!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:49 pm

Week 9 of Chicago Training: August 13 – 19

Monday: 4 miles – 30:12, 7:33 pace. 12 miles – 1:12:02, 6:00 pace. Same workout as last week, with an extra mile included in the middle set. Unlike last week, the conditions were not ideal, with heavy rain falling. I opted for the treadmill, only my gym inexplicably had the thermostat at 78. So other than it being a sweaty mess, the workout went well:

Set 1 – 5:35, 5:32
Set 2 – 5:37, 5:33, 5:31
Set 3 – 5:30, 5:15

Tuesday: 16 miles – 144:32, 6:32 pace. Another benefit of having a coach is that I would never schedule a mid-week 16 miler for myself. Nope. Not a chance. I know it’s good for me, but I’m not down with self-inflicted suffering.

Wednesday: 4 miles – 31:10, 7:48 pace. 8 miles – 57:45, 7:13 pace. I miss these double easy days.

Thursday: 14 miles – 1:31:10, with 5k in 16:03 + 8 x 400. Last year I ran the Elvis is Alive 5k (though it’s actually an uncertified 3.2 mile course) in 15:53. At that point I had been logging 2-3 speed workouts per week for about 2 months, had run 3 other races as workouts, and had done some track work. This year? I’ve run 3 tempo workouts and 1 400m workout. So that fact I was only 10 seconds slower than last year is a very good sign, in my opinion. After the race, I ran 8 x 400 in 73-75 seconds each, for a total cool-down of 7 miles. Then I drank about 8 free beers. Solid Thursday.

Friday: 4 miles – 30:12, 7:33 pace. 10 miles – 1:11:33, 7:09 pace. I fully expected to be sore today. I wasn’t. So that confirms what I suspected: I have no leg speed or 5k fitness right now, but am aerobically as fit as ever.

Saturday: 14 miles – 1:31:18, 6:31 pace. Really Coach? Double long runs? You know I don’t particularly like long runs, right? I sucked it up and put in Number 1 this morning, though I didn’t enjoy it knowing I had to run 20 more tomorrow.

Sunday: 20 miles – 2:08:50, 6:26 pace. Five 20 milers in the last five weeks. Tonight’s was the easiest and strongest. I like it when training follows a linear progression.

Week: 106
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:52 pm

Week 10 of Chicago Training: August 20 – 26

Monday: 6 miles – 44:23, 7:24 pace. 6 miles – 42:51, 7:09. I could have lied and claimed this was one continuous run to show I’m not relying as much on doubles to hit triple digits this time around. But the truth is that I wanted to log the easiest way to get to 12 miles to day, and this was it.

Tuesday: 16 miles – 1:40:46, with 8 miles – 46:06, 5:45 pace. And the reason I wanted yesterday to be so easy was because today was my first schedule prolonged MP run. I was nervous. Not nervous that I would finish, but rather, that it would feel too hard, like a tempo run. That wasn’t the case at all; I crushed it. After a 2 mile warm-up, I hit splits of 5:50, 5:50, 5:43, 5:47, 5:43, 5:43, 5:44, and 5:42. I was in the MF-ing groove. During the last mile I debated extending the MP portion of the run to 10 or even 12 miles. While ultimately I obeyed Coach’s orders, the fact I even considered it should give you a sense of how strong I felt.

Wednesday: 4 miles 30:23, 7:36 pace. 16 miles – 1:49:25, 6:50 pace. “Oh sure, I’d love to run back to back 16 mile runs in the middle of a normal work week,” said no one, ever. I’d say from mile 2 onward I was looking forward to being done, especially since My Morning Jacket at Millennium park was awaiting. On the bright side, it never really got harder. Just took a while.

Thursday: 10 miles – 1:14:02, 7:24 pace. See Monday. Easy, in preparation for tomorrow…

Friday: 24 miles – 2:46:08, 6:55. I’ve never done 24 miles in training before. 23 a few times, 22 a handful of times…but never 24. I knew it would be hard – and I knew I’d need to really focus on recovery – so I took the day off of work. That’s either true dedication or the height of running geekiness

But it was also the right decision. I was able to mimic race morning as best as possible. I set out at a slow pace, knowing that time on my feet was the real goal today. At first it felt like a jog. But after about an hour, I realized how hot it was getting. It was up to 86 (I checked afterward), with no cloud cover and no breeze. I worried that 24 miles might be asking a bit much in those conditions. So I decided to take a route home that would get me there at mile 14. I changed clothes, walked the half block to the gym, and logged the last 10 on the treadmill. As with taking the day off, it was the right call. I felt much better in the cool 70 degree shelter, and held up pretty strong for 2 hours and 46 minutes. Now I just hope that on October 7th I’ll have a beer in my hand by that point.

Saturday: 8 miles – 58:45, 7:21. Today, running was low on my priority list. Atop the list was spending the day on our pontoon with our parents. I crammed in 8 easy miles between boating on dinner – though there were a few beers sloshing around in my belly. Either I wasn’t sore from the 24 miler or I was too buzzed to tell.

Sunday: 6 miles – untimed. 14 miles – 1:25:15, 6:10. I fully expected tonight’s run to be POS. I pretty much had accepted it. It was pouring rain, I had also golfed 18 holes during the day, and I had just 100 minutes until my gym closed for the night. Then, I hopped on the treadmill and crushed it. My legs felt fantastic. The last 8 miles of the run were 6:05, 6:03, 6:00, 5:59, 5:58, 5:56, 5:52, and 5:47. And it felt smooth.

Hell. Yes.

Week: 110
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  mul21 on Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:49 am

Wow. 5 double digit runs, 3 of them 16 miles or longer. Your coach is a sadist! The last 5 miles of that Sunday run are especially impressive after a week like that. Nicely done!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

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