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No Longer a Fool

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:36 pm

@JohnP wrote:
@Jerry wrote:Dave,

What is the grade range of the 4-5 Boston hills?

I grade most of them as "F"

haha, nice. 

The Newton Hills are between 3-6%.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:08 pm

@Dave-O wrote:
@JohnP wrote:
@Jerry wrote:Dave,

What is the grade range of the 4-5 Boston hills?

I grade most of them as "F"

haha, nice. 

The Newton Hills are between 3-6%.

As the incline varies, year to year.  Which is why Boston has the reputation it has.  Sort of like pin placement on a golf course.

Don't mind me, I'm in TAPER MADNESS!!!!!!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:37 pm

It's been awhile since I posted here, but since many forumites were so great in posting Boston updates, I figured I'd drop a quick summary. 

Basically -- different marathon, same story. I really think after yesterday that I am done racing marathons. That's not meant to be an overreaction to another day where everything went wrong (hamstrings tightened by 10, puked at 17, bathroom at 18, walked a lot of the rest) but an acknowledgment that my body just shuts down in marathons.  I don't know why -- but as as soon as I try to shift into "race effort," it feels like my body goes into protection mode and says, "not happening, idiot."  Maybe I'm a basket case; maybe I did too much damage back when I ran 2:34; or maybe I just got too old. But whatever the reason, I'm not going to keep working so hard for such miserable race experiences. I don't ever want to experience the depth of disappointment I felt on Monday again. 

When I first got serious about running, I viewed sub-3:00 as my pie-in-the-sky goal. If my marathon "career" ends with a 2:34 PR, and my final memory is running down an absolutely raucous and defiant Boylston street, then I walk away happy. 
 
Plus, I love the half-marathon distance too much to keep focusing on a distance I don't enjoy. 
 
I'll take the next few weeks to recover (and focus on another love of mine, the Bulls and NBA playoffs) and then decide what to do next. But I foresee some focus on 5k/10k this summer followed by a half in the fall. I by no means plan to stop training, or to stop training my ass off and competing, but the marathon just isn't for me.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave Bussard on Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:00 pm

@Dave-O wrote:I by no means plan to stop training, or to stop training my ass off and competing, but the marathon just isn't for me.

I realized the same thing about 8 years ago. After Chicago 2005, I said never again. The marathon doesn't make a runner. The last  8 years of running have probably been the best 8 out of my 40 years of running... All without even thinking about a marathon.

Just run, race when you want to, and get back to enjoying it all again.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Jerry on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:22 pm

Dave, that sounds a good plan to me. Marathon is just one running distance. If you love running and want to be competitive, you want to pick your most competitive distance. If you love marathoning, you have no choice, but keep trying. You may want think of it while you work on short distances this fall.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:17 pm

Well, I certainly get it Dave-O and if you remember correctly, I ran my "last" marathon in 1987 when I set my PR and did not run another until 2000.  Now that I'm older and time doesn't really matter as much, I can finally let myself "relax" (ha) in the race.  In other words, you may decide in 13 yrs to run another just to see how it goes.

The half marathon distance to me is the best, and after I "stopped" marathoning the first time, I ran PRs at every other distance especially the half, and the injuries stayed away.

Good luck with getting the half and 10K PRs over the next few years and enjoy it.  Just don't be a stranger as we can live vicariously through that as well.


Last edited by Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mark B on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:38 pm

I was sorry to see your troubles came back yet again this year, Dave. For whatever reason, your body does not seem to like the marathon distance. Let it go, and find something better. You won't regret it.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  nkrichards on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:05 am

Sorry to hear that you had another tough day.  Hope you can refocus and enjoy your new running goals.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  ounce on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:16 am

@Dave-O wrote:or maybe I just got too old. But whatever the reason, I'm not going to keep working so hard for such miserable race experiences. I don't ever want to experience the depth of disappointment I felt on Monday again. 


I felt the same way in '09 after not getting an official time.  I took a year off and got back on the saddle.  Do what you like.  I wasn't too old.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  JohnP on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:17 am

Thanks for writing and updating us on what happened, Dave. You certainly gave it a great try over the last few years with solid program after program. It's smart to listen to your body when it's telling you something.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Martin VW on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:28 am

One of the unintended consequences of marathoning for me has been that I can no longer accept the phrase "it's a marathon not a sprint" the same way any more. It implies that the early stages of whatever endeavor are less important than the later ones. Sub-elite runners like you know that isn't true. You can't give away time in the first mile with hopes of making it up in the 26th. To achieve the lofty goals you set for yourself you have to run every mile based on a strategy that puts you right on the edge of what you believe you can handle and still complete the distance.

It isn't so much that your body can't handle the distance as it is that your body can't handle the distance at speed. You proved that to yourself in your recent indoor training run. Something about racing the marathon distance at a sub-2:30 pace causes physical reactions that you don't experience at shorter distances.

If this is your last attempt at the distance at a competitive pace, for whatever the reason, nobody can ever say that you didn't pour your heart and soul into your marathoning career. I've always been inspired by your dedication to training, and your unique ability to still achieve balance in your personal and professional life despite running 100+ miles a week, every week, week after week, month after month, year after year. 2:34 is an incredible achievement. I remember your last Boston, and that weekend. After sharing your and Schuey's experience as a spectator, I left that race knowing, I had to run Boston one more time.

I'm sorry that the outcome wasn't different for you. You earned a better result. And I do hope that you and Britt find other reasons to travel to Boston.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:15 am

@Martin VW wrote:One of the unintended consequences of marathoning for me has been that I can no longer accept the phrase "it's a marathon not a sprint" the same way any more. It implies that the early stages of whatever endeavor are less important than the later ones. Sub-elite runners like you know that isn't true. You can't give away time in the first mile with hopes of making it up in the 26th. To achieve the lofty goals you set for yourself you have to run every mile based on a strategy that puts you right on the edge of what you believe you can handle and still complete the distance.

It isn't so much that your body can't handle the distance as it is that your body can't handle the distance at speed. You proved that to yourself in your recent indoor training run. Something about racing the marathon distance at a sub-2:30 pace causes physical reactions that you don't experience at shorter distances.

If this is your last attempt at the distance at a competitive pace, for whatever the reason, nobody can ever say that you didn't pour your heart and soul into your marathoning career. I've always been inspired by your dedication to training, and your unique ability to still achieve balance in your personal and professional life despite running 100+ miles a week, every week, week after week, month after month, year after year. 2:34 is an incredible achievement. I remember your last Boston, and that weekend. After sharing your and Schuey's experience as a spectator, I left that race knowing, I had to run Boston one more time.

I'm sorry that the outcome wasn't different for you. You earned a better result. And I do hope that you and Britt find other reasons to travel to Boston.
Well said, Martin.  By the way, I thought about you when I was running the other mostly because I was thinking about hockey.  Following the playoffs, of course.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Nick Morris on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:53 am

Sorry to see and read about your bad outcome at Boston, but as you said, you are not done running. The marathon is only one distance and there are plenty of other distances out there that you will excel at. First and foremost, you need to do what makes you happy. Run on!!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:15 pm

Dave: I had you in mind as I was writing that post. Its great to remember how much success you've had in running as a "non-marathoner!" Thanks.

Jerry: Wise words. Thanks.

Michele: Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sure there will come a day where I run, not necessarily race, a marathon.

Mark, NKRichards, Ounce, John, Nick: Thanks. I knew I'd find the support I needed here!

VW: I really appreciate your post. It helps put things in perspective. I'm confident that Britt and I will be back in Boston someday.  Heck, I wouldn't be opposed to signing up for the marathon just to race the first 13.1....and then drinking beers with the spectators for another 13.1.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  mountandog on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:14 pm

Dave,

Heartbreaking to read, but so easy to understand.  Heal well.  I look forward to reading about your next adventures.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:29 pm

Sorry to hear you are done racing marathons, but good to hear you will still run them.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Matt W on Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:19 am

Dave,

I'm sorry that the results were not on par with what you've have trained for.  I am always very impressed with your dedication to crank out 100 mile weeks and still have some high quality workouts.  There is no doubt you are talented, determined, and smart enough to be competitive at a high level.  The journey you have taken from a ex-football player to a sub-16/1:11/2:34 runner is more than impressive.  I know that you are an inspiration to a lot of people, myself included.  We see how hard you work and want to see you succeed in your races.  While a lot of us around here focus on the marathon, it's just a small sliver in the running world.  The marathon is way too much work to do if it's not bringing you joy.  Maybe you take three years away from the distance and get the hunger to try again or maybe you take three years off and realize stepping away from the marathon was the best running decision you could have made.  Either way, I wish you the best of luck in your running endeavors in the future.

There's no one I know who can tempo run (or a 2 x 3 mile or a 3 x 2 mile,crush mile repeats on a TM, etc. etc.) like you, and I hope you are a lot happier running 80+ miles rather than 110+ (or whatever you decide to do with your training).  I think back to some of your best races at the 15K, 10M, and 1/2 marathons.  A lot of times you did that in your buildup without specifically focusing on the race.  With a little bit more event specific training, an actually taper, and a little bit of good luck in the weather department, I think your best years of running could be ahead of you.  Just remember to relax and enjoy the opportunity to race.  When you toe the line in your races, you don't have to run out of your mind or have everything go your way.  You just have to be Dave-O.  He kicks ass.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  jon c on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:24 am

Sorry you didn't have the race you wanted.  It's always disappointing when you train and work as hard as you do.  And I know you work very hard.  No one can question that.

Maybe taking time off from the full could be helpful.  I took a break from 1982-2005.  Not exactly the best comparison as I am not near the athlete that you are and never was.  But when I decided to start training for the marathon again, I was ready. 

Wish you the best in whatever paths you choose to take.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mark B on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:07 pm

@Matt W wrote:When you toe the line in your races, you don't have to run out of your mind or have everything go your way.  You just have to be Dave-O.  He kicks ass.

^^^ This.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  dot520 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:40 pm

Come back to Indy!!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Fri May 02, 2014 12:21 pm

@jon c wrote:Sorry you didn't have the race you wanted.  It's always disappointing when you train and work as hard as you do.  And I know you work very hard.  No one can question that.

Maybe taking time off from the full could be helpful.  I took a break from 1982-2005.  Not exactly the best comparison as I am not near the athlete that you are and never was.  But when I decided to start training for the marathon again, I was ready. 

Wish you the best in whatever paths you choose to take.

Thanks, Jon.  

@Mark B wrote:
@Matt W wrote:When you toe the line in your races, you don't have to run out of your mind or have everything go your way.  You just have to be Dave-O.  He kicks ass.

^^^ This.

Right?  THAT kind of got me excited to stop worrying so much and just start racing!  Thanks Matt.  Very Happy 

@dot520 wrote:Come back to Indy!!

Too late for 2014, but a definite possibility for next spring!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  tom on Tue May 27, 2014 7:47 am

Half marathons?  5Ks?  10Ks?  I think it's time you got serious about your DWD training and forgot these other insignificant distances.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Bob on Tue May 27, 2014 10:34 pm

@tom wrote:Half marathons?  5Ks?  10Ks?  I think it's time you got serious about your DWD training and forgot these other insignificant distances.
TOM!!!!! errrrr, tom!!!!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mark B on Fri May 08, 2015 10:07 pm

@Dave-O wrote:I'll take the next few weeks to recover ... and then decide what to do next.

Dave-O, I don't know if you pay many visits to this site anymore, but I think there are a lot of us who would love to know what's happened since this post a year ago. If you'd like to share, we're listening.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  ounce on Wed May 27, 2015 12:10 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@Dave-O wrote:I'll take the next few weeks to recover ... and then decide what to do next.

Dave-O, I don't know if you pay many visits to this site anymore, but I think there are a lot of us who would love to know what's happened since this post a year ago. If you'd like to share, we're listening.
Or we'll take it over as a SCZ thread!  Twisted Evil

Maybe even make up things!  This could be this message board's equivalent of the National Enquirer.


Last edited by ounce on Wed May 27, 2015 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : punctuation)
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Re: No Longer a Fool

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