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No Longer a Fool

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Post-Chicago Marathon, Week 1: October 8 – 14

This much I know:

1. Aerobically speaking, I am fit as ever;
2. I am muscularly deficient in areas that are not allowing me to PR;
3. Unlike after previous fall marathons, I am not going into recovery mode; and
4. I am eager to build on #1 and correct #2.

As I digested what happened last Sunday, I had to face the fact that I am no longer 26 years old. That isn’t a bad thing, but it does mean my body reacts differently than it used to. This was clear in 2011 when I was seeing a PT about my hip injury. He told me my glutes, hips and hamstrings were surprisingly weak for a runner of my speed. I was working to correct those deficiencies, but as soon as I was back to running full volume, I once again stopped.

That’s my limiting factor right now. I can’t even get to the point in a race where your vision goes blurry and your ears are ringing. My hamstrings ache and hurt well before. That good news is that’s easily correctable with less than two hours per week of the following:

1. Core/Hop routing 2 x per week. This has never been an issue.
2. Leg strength workout 2 x per week. Nothing crazy, just simple lunges, medicine ball wall squats, and hamstring curls. Light weights, followed by stretching. In other words, what the PT told me a year ago to do on a weekly basis. (/facepalm).
3. A short yoga program 1 x per week. Not the 90 minute P90x routine. I need a 15-30 minute program designed for runners that I can do after recovery runs. I am open to suggestions.
4. Hills. In the form of hill sprints – why I stopped doing them, I don’t know – and a handful of hilly moderate runs, either at Waterfall Glen or on the treadmill if I have to.

I know, I know. I’ve said crap like this before. But after how I felt Sunday, i.e. aerobically fit but muscularly weak, it’s painfully obvious that if I ever want to PR again, it’s time to be disciplined about it. “Just” running isn’t going to get me to where I want to go.

As for running, I didn’t feel nearly as beat up after Chicago as I usually do. I put in runs of 4, 6, and 10 this week. I am going to use the next three weeks to gradually rebuild my mileage (tentative plan is 40, 60, 80), and am going to follow Hal’s Post-Marathon Program (perhaps Hal’s best) to reintroduce speedwork. This mini-recovery period will end with the Hot Chocolate 15k on November 4th.

From there I have 10 weeks to get ready for the Houston Half. I spent about an hour yesterday reviewing my training in the 10 weeks leading up to the two times I’ve run 1:11. I’ll just say this: In the 8 weeks before tapering for Houston, I am going to bust ass. I want 900 miles in those 8 weeks. It won’t be easy with the holidays and partial Bulls’ season tickets, but that’s the goal. And it won’t be just mileage; I’m going to tempo my ass off. Like I said, I think my Chicago training has provided an incredible aerobic base, primed to have me in PR shape.

If I start slacking, please, tell me to quit being a sissy and get to work. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:49 pm

All I can say, Dave-O is that I am glad to see you embrace those deficiencies and realize that you can "fix" them now. I so wish I was 1) able to point them out or have them pointed out 20 yrs ago and 2) have the where with all to realize there was an issue that could be fixed. Many kudos to you!


Last edited by Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:39 pm

Dave I like the plan and no doubt all things that can be corrected! It's all about putting in that little extra work to meet your goals.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave P on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:50 pm

Never give up working for a perfect routine.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  JohnP on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Dave, in the years I've known you from the board, this is a whole new you/attitude you have, it's really good. Your post has so much intensity and drive in it. You still ran a decent marathon so don't come back too fast, faster than the program, it takes time to recover from one (note to self: take your own advice). Eight weeks of training on top of what you have built should put you in fantastic shape. Too bad Boston is full.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  jon c on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:11 pm

Dave, sorry about your race. It is definitely tough to put the perfect race together, it is indeed a rare bird.

I do like your resolve, and the fact that you're okay with the coaching. Still think that you work at it too hard not to get rewarded for it at some point in the future. Keep plugging away. It definitely keeps one busy in your non working hours.

By the way, I am and always have been a fool as 4/1 is my birthday so I'll never be able to get away from it. So you can be thankful for the fact that you are no longer one.... Smile
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mark B on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:02 am

Dave, I think your assessment of your situation is spot-on. You have a huge aerobic base and will likely benefit from a strength-building program. Endurance is great - but enhancing that with more power can only help you reach your goal.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:31 pm

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:All I can say, Dave-O is that I am glad to see you embrace those deficiencies and realize that you can "fix" them now. I so wish I was 1) able to point them out or have them pointed out 20 yrs ago and 2) have the where with all to realize there was an issue that could be fixed. Many kudos to you!

Let's hope I can fix them! I don't want to be done with PRs.

@Schuey wrote:Dave I like the plan and no doubt all things that can be corrected! It's all about putting in that little extra work to meet your goals.

Yup, its the extra details I have to stop neglecting.

@Dave P wrote:Never give up working for a perfect routine.

Thanks Dave.

@JohnP wrote:Dave, in the years I've known you from the board, this is a whole new you/attitude you have, it's really good. Your post has so much intensity and drive in it. You still ran a decent marathon so don't come back too fast, faster than the program, it takes time to recover from one (note to self: take your own advice). Eight weeks of training on top of what you have built should put you in fantastic shape. Too bad Boston is full.

Yeah, John. In reviewing my logs from 2009 and 2010, I realize I was working so much harder then on my workouts. I need to get back to that point.

But I am taking it slow, which is why I chose to follow Hal's recovery plan. It keeps the volume low and very gradually works in the intensity. In another two weeks I'll be ready to go!

@jon c wrote:Dave, sorry about your race. It is definitely tough to put the perfect race together, it is indeed a rare bird.

I do like your resolve, and the fact that you're okay with the coaching. Still think that you work at it too hard not to get rewarded for it at some point in the future. Keep plugging away. It definitely keeps one busy in your non working hours.

Thanks Jon. I'm not done plugging away just yet.

@Mark B wrote:Dave, I think your assessment of your situation is spot-on. You have a huge aerobic base and will likely benefit from a strength-building program. Endurance is great - but enhancing that with more power can only help you reach your goal.

Yes, Power. That is exactly what I need, and exactly what tempo runs are going to provide.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Chris M on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:16 pm

I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:20 am

@Chris M wrote:I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.

Sub-50 is going to be tough. If I had another month to log about 6 more tempos, sure. But my legs still don't have the speed back in them yet.

We'll see what happens.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  mountandog on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:36 am

very insightful analysis. I wish I had the same so I could figure out how to get to the next level.

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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:56 am

@Dave-O wrote:
@Chris M wrote:I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.

Sub-50 is going to be tough. If I had another month to log about 6 more tempos, sure. But my legs still don't have the speed back in them yet.

We'll see what happens.

I dunno Dave. Even I ran a sub-60 15K back in the day (58:53). Of course, the race had a significant downhill in the 2nd half and since it was back in the 1980s, I have no idea if it was a certified course. The best thing was that the "prize" was a bushel of local apples for winning.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:04 pm

@Chris M wrote:I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.

Look at who is calling who a slacker!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Chris M on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:02 pm

@Schuey wrote:
@Chris M wrote:I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.

Look at who is calling who a slacker!

Takes one to know one! Get back to JFK training, ya slug.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:46 am

@Chris M wrote:
@Schuey wrote:
@Chris M wrote:I'd like to see 4x:XX Hot Chocolate as a stretch goal. I'm just sayin. At least under 52:00 slacker.

Look at who is calling who a slacker!

Takes one to know one! Get back to JFK training, ya slug.

HaHa ok boss!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:47 am

You two done with your Bromance yet?
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Mike MacLellan on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:06 am

When the cat's away...
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:58 pm

Post-Chicago Marathon, Week 2: October 15 – 21

What day of the week is it? Friday? After being out of the office on Wednesday and Thursday for Britt’s Grandma’s wake and funeral, it feels like a Monday. Anyway, that’s my excuse for being tardy with last week’s update:

Mon: 5 miles – 37:50, 7:34 pace.
Tues: 8 miles – 52:11 6:31 pace, with 8 x 400m.
Wed: 5 miles – 37:13, 7:27 pace.
Thurs: 8 miles – 50:05, with 4 miles – 21:42, 5:26 pace.
Fri: off
Sat: 6 miles – 38:28, 6:25 pace, with 3 x 1 mile at marathon pace.
Sun: 12 miles – 1:21:37, 6:48 pace.

Week: 44
YTD: 3,176

As John mentioned in response to my first post, even though Chicago didn’t leave me nearly as trashed as usual, I still need to respect the recovery period. That’s exactly why I picked Hal’s recovery program and set mileage goals of 20-40-60-80 for my first month back.

The thing I love about Hal’s program, though, is the gradual re-introduction of speedwork. It guards against falling into a trap of nothing but easy mileage. This week I had three moderate workouts on schedule: 8 x 400, a 20 minute tempo, and 3 x 1 mile at MP.

All went well. My turnover was crap on the 400’s, but that was to be expected. The 3 x 1 mile at marathon pace is really more of a fartlek workout anyway, and I had splits of 5:49, 5:45, and 5:42. The run I really cared about was the tempo run. As I said, I intend to tempo frequently in the next 12 weeks, and this was my first crack at it. I went in with hopes of being under 22:00, which I did without too much struggle. My splits of 5:35, 5:28, 5:23, and 5:17 put me at 21:42. As I suspected, my aerobic fitness is better than my lactic threshold conditioning. I don’t think it will take long to turn that around.

So a rather uneventful week as I balance recovery with my eagerness to start punishing myself with workouts.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:56 pm

Post-Chicago Marathon, Week 3: October 22 - 28

Mon: 6 miles – 44:36, 7:26 pace
Tues: 8 mile – 52:52, with 8 x 400m
Wed: 6 miles – 45:02, 7:30 pace.
Thurs: 10 miles – 1:03:21, with 5 miles – 27:05, 5:25 pace.
Fri: 4 miles – 29:26, 7:22 pace.
Sat: 8 miles – Pumpkins in the Park 5k – 16:32, 3rd Place.
Sun: 12 miles – 1:22:26, 6:52 pace.

Week: 54
YTD: 3.252


The quality runs keep rolling in, and with each, I can feel my speed returning. Tuesday’s set of 400’s went much better than last week. My turnover was crisper and my stride felt more powerful. The improvements I’ve noticed in just two weeks have confirmed my belief that I just didn’t do enough speedwork during my marathon buildup. My bad. I’ve learned from it and have moved on.

Thursday’s tempo run, my focus between now and January 13th, was perhaps the best run I’ve had in months. I went in with the goal of 27:30, and thought maybe I had a chance to run sub-27. And I probably would have, had I not run the first mile in 5:33. I hit the next three in 5:28, 5:25 and 5:22. Knowing I was close, I emptied the tanks on the 5th mile with a 5:16. I have a long way to go to make 5:25 pace my half-marathon pace, but I’m heading in the right direction.

On Saturday I ran the Pumpkins in the Park 5k, a fun race in which many runners adorn costumes, including (as you’ve seen from the picture) my buddy Matt Flaherty. He’s a 2:22 marathoner so I’ll just say I was a little bit worried about losing to a frog. Miles 1 and 2 were 5:14 and 5:15, on a cold and very windy early evening. This course is anything but fast, and mile 3 is a complete mess with six 180 degree turns. Starting that mile, I was about 10 feet behind the Smacks frog. My only goal was to stay there and outkick him in the final .1 straightaway. The plan worked to perfection: mile 3 was 5:28, and then I ran the last .15 (who knows if its certified) in 4:14 pace. When I passed him, I half expected Flaherty to fling off the frog head and chase me down.

I ended the week with an easy 12 miler. While I usually turn into a complete bum post-marathon, I’m glad this year I’ve maintained – and perhaps even improved – my fitness. One more week until the real fun starts.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:48 pm

So I was thinking about going to the big game tomorrow Providence vs Lincoln Way East. Should be a great HS State Football playoff game!
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:58 pm

@Schuey wrote:So I was thinking about going to the big game tomorrow Providence vs Lincoln Way East. Should be a great HS State Football playoff game!

I thought about it too, but Britt and I are going to see her step brother play - Glenbard North vs. Stevenson. He's a fullback, made 2nd team all-conference, and I've been trying to convince him to play at IWU next year. Cool
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Schuey on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:07 pm

Congrats to him! The GN and Stevenson game should be a good one also! Oh wait I meant to say that game is tonight. I alright I think I'm pulling the trigger and hoping in the car and going!!! I really think the winner of this game will be 7A State Champ! For some reason I thought the game was tomorrow.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:22 pm

@Schuey wrote:Congrats to him! The GN and Stevenson game should be a good one also! Oh wait I meant to say that game is tonight. I alright I think I'm pulling the trigger and hoping in the car and going!!! I really think the winner of this game will be 7A State Champ! For some reason I thought the game was tomorrow.

Glenbard moves on. Providence does not. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  Dave-O on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:26 pm

Post-Chicago Marathon, Week 4: October 29 – November 4

Mon: 6 miles – 43:31, 7:15 pace.
Tues: 8 miles – 50:08, with 3 x 1 mile in 5:11, 5:04, and 5:02.
Wed: 6 miles – 45:12, 7:32 pace.
Thurs: 8 miles – 49:08, with 4 miles – 21:13, 5:18 pace.
Fri: 6 miles – 44:55, 7:29 pace.
Sat: 4 miles – 29:32, 7:23 pace.
Sun: 14 miles with Hot Chocolate 15k – 53:35, 14th place.

Week: 52
YTD: 3,304

And that concludes my four week Chicago recovery block. I wish I could say it ended with a bang at the Hot Chocolate race, but frankly, I can’t even call it a “race.”

First off, the entire thing was poorly organized. The race Facebook page is littered with complaints about packet pick-up taking two hours. That’s what happens when you try host a 50,000 person event and have the “expo” in a tent in a parking lot. I luckily got in and out quickly early Saturday morning, but I knew it was a sign of bad things to come.

On race morning, I learned that to get to my “A” corral, I had to enter by the “F” corral and work my way through the crowds. Genius. Since the corrals closed by 6:50, I had to end my warm-up at 6:30 and make my way to the start. When it’s 38 degrees out, that’s a very bad thing. I was freezing by the time the gun went off. Even once I got going I couldn’t find a smooth rhythm for the first 5k, and I couldn’t get myself into a “race” mentality. I essentially just tempoed the 15k at a 5:45 pace. If this were anything but a recovery race I’d be disappointed, but as it stands, it simply marks the beginning of my Houston training.

Excuses aside, I am not going to pretend my fitness is high right now. It isn’t. I am not in PR shape. That being said, I am in a great position to train towards a PR. My aerobic base is strong, and my recent workouts – such as 3 x 1 mile in 5:11, 5:04 and 5:02 and a 4 mile tempo with splits of 5:24, 5:21, 5:18 and 5:10 – having me trending in the right direction.

Which is why I am so excited for the next 10 weeks. Remember that passion from my post-marathon post? I’ve had to bottle it for 3 more weeks to ensure proper recovery. Now, it’s time to unleash it.

I have lofty and aggressive plans for the next 10 weeks. In the 8 before taper, I want to run 900 miles. And they aren’t going to be all slow miles. I have 2 or 3 hard workouts planned per week, mostly the type of tempos that leave me sitting on the curb or side of the treadmill. That’s what got me in 1:11 shape in 2010; that’s what it’s going to take to get back there. I also plan to incorporate 2 core workouts, 1 upper body workout, 1 lower body workout, and 1 short yoga session per week. That’s 5 non-running workouts per week that should take less than 20 minutes each. I can handle that.

Can I handle averaging 110+ for two months? I can’t guarantee anything except that I’m all in.
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Re: No Longer a Fool

Post  JohnP on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:17 am

Dave, I ran that HC 5K a few years ago and it was a disaster. THough the race start was OK because they didn't have those corrals back then, once I finished, I spent over an hour waiting in line for my gear checked bag. They were completely unorganized and didn't have the bags in any grouping. And there was no line. Anyway, that was enough for me to not do it again.
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