365Runners
Welcome to 365Runners! We are here because we all share a running addiction. Whether training for a first marathon, a new PR, a new race distance, or anything else... welcome!

To stop the banner ads, please register and login. Otherwise, please enjoy browsing as a guest.

Need Some Scheduling Advice

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  mountandog on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:11 pm

My daughter has just signed up for the Tupelo Marathon on Sept 2 for a BQ attempt. Don't see a major issue for her as she's in great shape, unless weather or poor pacing gets in the way. She's 23 yrs old and recovers well. She could be 15-25 minutes under the BQ time.

Anyway - She will be home the weekend before and there is a great series of races in Flint, the Crim Festival on Aug 25th. The big race is the 10 miler, but there is also an 8k and 5k. The races aren't particularly hilly. She is interested in running one of the races. Here are her final 10 days of her plan (Pfitz 55 miles, 18wk). Do you have any recommendations? Run a race, yes/no? If yes, which distance and what alterations to her plan would you make?

Wed 8/22 - 8 w/ 3x1600s @ 5k pace

Thurs 8/23 - rest

Fri 8/24 - 5 w/ 6 strides

Sat 8/25 - rest/cross train

Sun 8/26 - 12

Mon 8/27 - rest

Tues 8/28 - 6

Wed 8/29 - 7 w/ 2mi @ marathon pace

Thur 8/30 - rest

Fri 8/31 - 5 w/ 6 strides

Sat 9/1 - 4

Sun 9/2 - Marathon
avatar
mountandog
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1392
Points : 5512
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 60
Location : Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Admin on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:19 pm

I don't think that any race effort so close to the marathon will help the marathon performance, but certainly can hurt it. As is so often the case, it just comes down to risk/reward. Racing so close to the marathon is a risk, and can derail an entire 18wk training cycle. How big is the risk? I don't know. Maybe not very big at all. It's up to her to determine how important Tupelo is and how much risk she's willing to assume.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 889
Points : 3803
Join date : 2011-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:23 pm

As a caveat, Matt is right. That being said, I would race the 10 miler and then take it real easy for the last week and run practically nothing to make sure I was fully rested and tapered. I know the Crim course itself is not a tough one except for the people.

Tupelo is a great race, but it can be very humid there, so make sure if she does race that she hydrates well the entire week before the race.
avatar
Michele "1L" Keane
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4742
Points : 11075
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 55
Location : Cleveland (Bay Village), OH/Atlanta, GA

View user profile http://1lranthere.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Ben Z on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:02 pm

My opinion of the taper is starting to change the more I read about how the best elite marathoners are training nowadays. Of course we are not elites, but I firmly believe that we can and should model what they do to fit our needs.

Many of today's best coaches do hard workouts until 7-10 days before a race, including a marathon. This coincides with the scientific research that suggests you don't realize the physiological benefits from a workout until 7-10 after the workout.

So the timing of the 10 miler couldn't be better in my opinion. I think she should run it very hard (i.e., marathon pace or faster). If she is trying to set a 10 mile PR even - go for it. Given her age and recovery profile she should be fine if the last 7-9 days includes only easy running and strides / hill sprints. That's plenty of time to freshen up for the marathon.

I also wouldn't cut back mileage so drastically that last week. Too many rest days. After the race run 6-8 miles each day the first few days. Then in the last four to five do 4-6 miles each day. Maybe one off day in there two days before the race. And 6-8 20-30 sec strides two or three times in the final nine days.
avatar
Ben Z
Regular
Regular

Posts : 698
Points : 3363
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Bay Area

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Chris M on Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:22 pm

At her age, I would definitely recommend blasting away at the 10 mile race. To make it a little more interesting, how about first two miles exactly at goal MP. That will feel and is very slow. Then crank it down to real racing and truly let fly over the last 2 miles. That's what Dave had me do on a couple of mid cycle pre-marathon 10 mile races and it worked very well. I cruised through Cherry Blossom I think 8 days before Boston and felt fantastic the whole time after a slowish start like that.
avatar
Chris M
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1061
Points : 3692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 48
Location : Washington, DC

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Admin on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:56 pm

Ben Z wrote:My opinion of the taper is starting to change the more I read about how the best elite marathoners are training nowadays. Of course we are not elites, but I firmly believe that we can and should model what they do to fit our needs.

Many of today's best coaches do hard workouts until 7-10 days before a race, including a marathon. This coincides with the scientific research that suggests you don't realize the physiological benefits from a workout until 7-10 after the workout.

The only caveat here is that the elites build up throughout their cycle to peak at the right time. A single hard effort 7 days before a goal race without the build up from a designed program isn't necessarily going to provide the same stimulous or race day benefit. I doubt that elites will just change their program 7 days before their goal race because there is a cool weekend race they want to run.

Be careful HOW you incorporate what the elites are doing... their plans are realized over months with purpose. Picking one piece and throwing it into your plan isn't advisable... in my opinion.

EDIT: That said, I'm not a big fan of tapering. I typically only reduce mileage the week of the race, and have run marathons a week or two before my target race... so, it's not that I don't agree with the current approach.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 889
Points : 3803
Join date : 2011-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  JohnP on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:13 am

I'm a little more conservative than everyone else, I think. At best, maybe replace the 12 miles with the 10 miles at MP. I think that would be easy to recover from, MP doesn't take a lot out of you. I would be pretty hesitant 1 week before a marathon to go all out on anything. Even a 5K if she hasn't been racing them all along is going to cause soreness as she uses muscles she hasn't been training for.
avatar
JohnP
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1225
Points : 4201
Join date : 2011-06-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  T Miller on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:23 am

As Matt states, it is a risk/reward decision.

I guess I'm really conservative. My advice would be to run the 8k at marathon pace or race the 5k if she really must race. I don't typically race that close to the marathon and it would be a shame to screw up a good marathon buildup on a cool little race. I have raced a half marathon 2 weeks prior to my goal marathon on a couple occasions and I've felt flat and had a poor showing for both marathons. If she decides to run one of the races I would definitely turn Monday's 12 miler into a shorter recovery run and probably lighten the load a bit leading into the race.
avatar
T Miller
Regular
Regular

Posts : 781
Points : 3471
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 52
Location : Bloomington

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  mountandog on Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:37 am

Thanks for the input thus far. This is really interesting in that there are so many varied opinions on this, all with a certain sense of logic.

She has followed a structured plan and yes, this would be a wrinkle. This will be her 5th marathon I think. Mt. Desert Island, Boston, Beaver Island, Albany, GA being her previous ones, so she has some base built up over the past couple of years.

I agree that its always risk reward. Hell, just getting in a car or on a plane carries some risk. The reason I was looking for other people's perspective is that I'm coming from a 55 year old paradigm. I need more rest and recovery and therefore can't rely on personal experience to guide her.
avatar
mountandog
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1392
Points : 5512
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 60
Location : Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  cnyoung19 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:57 am

So I see my dad has asked for some feedback on my behalf - thanks dad Smile

And thank you all for the recommendations. There are some things to think about there. I do feel like I am in the best shape that I have ever been in and have been hitting all of my times on my training runs. I have run the Crim before, and it is a really fun race and would like to get a feel for where I am before my marathon - which is always easiest to do in a racing environment. However, like you said, I don't want to risk being sore, tired or sluggish.

Thanks again for your help. It may be a "game time" decision depending on how I feel next week.

cnyoung19
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 5
Points : 2217
Join date : 2011-10-03
Age : 28
Location : Atlanta, Georgia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Chris M on Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:39 am

I know I already weighed in but I'm doing so again. 23 years old. Not 40-something, not 50-something. I say race the Crim ALL OUT. Heck, ignore my earlier advice of first 2 miles at goal MP. I do think starting any race at that distance a bit slow will help but maybe not that slow. Think of it this way....kill that 10 miler with a great time and then input that time into McMillan and BAM you see that a BQ is a jog and your confidence will be deservedly SKY HIGH going into the marathon. Assuming you feel anything but "off" on Crim race day, I say GOTIME and race it hard.
avatar
Chris M
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1061
Points : 3692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 48
Location : Washington, DC

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Erin on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:52 pm

I'm just going to put in this 2 cents...

Is the BQ super important? If so, don't change the schedule and focus on what means the most.

If she is not that worried about it and can BQ another time, maybe race the 10. I just wouldn't want to take the chance if it was so close to something that meant so much to me.
avatar
Erin
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 42
Points : 2365
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 38
Location : South Carolina

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Some Scheduling Advice

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum