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Running Chicago as a training run

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Running Chicago as a training run

Post  cnyoung19 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:45 pm

My brother and I just decided to go to Chicago this weekend, and realized that the Chicago Marathon is happening on Sunday. We are both in marathon training mode (he is doing Detroit Oct 20, and I am doing Ridge to Bridge with my dad Oct 27). I have a 20 miler to do this weekend, and he has a 16 miler. Once we realized that Chicago is going on this weekend, we thought it would be fun to bandit part of it. We would hop in somewhere after the start and hop back out before the finish. We would also bring our own Gus and stuff, so we wouldnt take any from the racers. I think it would be a lot more fun to run part of the course than it would be to try to navigate 20 miles around Chicago.

Does anybody have any thoughts on if this would be possible? And if so, where would be a good spot to hop in and out?

Thanks!

Chelsea

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Julie on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:54 pm

I'm pretty sure being a bandit is considered stealing, even if you're not taking GU or any fluids, they're still paying the police out there to direct traffic and you'll be making things more crowded. I'm not trying to be discouraging or rude or anything, but I really think it would be more honest or upright to just run along the Lakefront or somewhere else in Chicago that Saturday and then cheer on runners Sunday.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:37 pm

Yeah, jumping into any race as a bandit is generally considered 'bad form'. Some people do it, and... well... there you go. What you choose to do is entirely up to you, but as crowded as Chicago is, I would encourage you to find an alternate way to log your training miles.

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Mike MacLellan on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:57 pm

Voice on the other side here:

I've run marathons as a bandit. I have nothing against it. I even took water! Oh no!

Really, marathons aren't there to make people money. They're there to get a company's name out.

The only "real" issue with bandit-ing is insurance issues. Technically, I believe the race organizer is responsible for you if you're on the course. And you're not insured, having not signed up. So... there's that. But really, just don't sue. Or cause problems.

Run it, enjoy the crowd, have fun, etc.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:25 pm

Regardless of how anyone tries to justify banditing a race, the fact is that the events are private and subject to registration rules and associated fees. It is a 'pay to play' event. There really is no justification for banditing that makes it acceptable, with the possible exception of Boston where it has become a well-established 'tradition'. If the race doesn't allow bandits, then banditing is, at a minimum, unethical.

Some people seem to just feel justified in their 'right to do whatever they want'... and so, there you go. Rationalization over ethical behavior; one of the failing fragments in the erosion of our society.

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:10 pm

I banditted Boston 4 times, but that was in the early 1980s as a college student and it was (and may still be for some) kind of the thing to do. Of course, back then there were no official water stops, no such thing as "Gu", entry fees were around $20, and there were less than 3500 competitors, so it was a bit different. These days, banditting is frowned upon although, I honestly see no down side and have no issue with it (as many people jump in a "pace" a friend and don't even consider it banditting), but with the price of big races these days edging ever closer to $200 and the large number of competitors it is considered "bad form".
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  JohnP on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:46 pm

Chicago is extremely crowded the first 10-12 miles. A lot depends on if you need to end where you start. Possibly the best bet is to join the crowd downtown after the 13.1 line as people start spreading out then. If you ran from mile 13 to mile 24.5 at McCormick Place , you can then run over to Lake Shore Drive and run north to finish the 16 miles and 20 miles close to downtown where you started (within 1-2 miles anyway).
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  JohnP on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:53 pm

I am not sure which way to lean on the ethics of this but it sounds clear that she and her brother are not going to drink the water/Gatorade or use course facilities so I'm not sure what the issue is. It's public property.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Dave-O on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:58 pm

JohnP wrote:
It's public property.

So is Grant Park, which hosts Lollapalooza every year, but that doesn't mean you have a right to enter without a ticket.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:00 pm

For the duration of the marathon the roads are under contract to the event. That's why they have all those barricades and police keeping cars away. The city grants a permit for private use. That's how it works.

Like I've said, people will rationalize anything. Everyone KNOWS it's a private event that you should register for... but some people just don't care and put self-interest above ethics. I don't have any control over it, nor do I plan to tell anyone what to do, or not do... but it is my opinion and it's based on my ethics.

Opinions vary.

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Dave-O on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:01 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:Voice on the other side here:

I've played Augusta National as a bandit. I have nothing against it. I even took the complimentary tees and balls! Oh no!

Really, country clubs aren't there to make people money. They're there to provide a private and prestigious setting to golf.

The only "real" issue with bandit-ing is insurance issues. Technically, I believe the the Club is responsible for you if you're on the course. And you're not insured, having not signed up. So... there's that. But really, just don't sue. Or cause problems.

Play it, enjoy the famous holes, and have fun, etc.

Slippery slope upon which you are standing.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Tim C on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:11 pm

Dammit, I was going to pace a friend in a half marathon this weekend. Part of me knows it's wrong, then again I am not in race shape and would not / will not enter to race all out. I rationalized that if I carried my own water and don't take a medal, what's the harm?

Damn, and all I was doing was trying to help a friend.......
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Mike MacLellan on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:00 pm

Dave-O wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:Voice on the other side here:

I've played Augusta National as a bandit. I have nothing against it. I even took the complimentary tees and balls! Oh no!

Really, country clubs aren't there to make people money. They're there to provide a private and prestigious setting to golf.

The only "real" issue with bandit-ing is insurance issues. Technically, I believe the the Club is responsible for you if you're on the course. And you're not insured, having not signed up. So... there's that. But really, just don't sue. Or cause problems.

Play it, enjoy the famous holes, and have fun, etc.

Slippery slope upon which you are standing.

Country clubs make a ton of money. I have a buddy who works at a golf course. They rack in a boatload of cash. Marathons pale in comparison.

---

Matt - Really? Part of the erosion of our society is me bandit-ing a race? Come on...

---

I don't care of people bandit races I'm running in. If they place in the top 3, as happened in a race I was in, thus bumping me out... Yeah, I'm upset. But the race director takes care of that.

Then again, you're also talking to a guy who thinks the whole self-checkout revolution at grocery stores so they can save money is a perfect way to take advantage of the lack of oversight and say your vine-ripened tomatoes are Roma tomatoes, thus saving $2/lb.

My moral compass is, by some of your standards, hazy, I'd imagine.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Julie on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:25 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:

Then again, you're also talking to a guy who thinks the whole self-checkout revolution at grocery stores so they can save money is a perfect way to take advantage of the lack of oversight and say your vine-ripened tomatoes are Roma tomatoes, thus saving $2/lb.

My moral compass is, by some of your standards, hazy, I'd imagine.

Well, yes because that is stealing, too. For me, my integrity isn't worth a dollar or two at the grocery store. I bought little foam cut out critters for my daughter and niece today and foam items ofter 5.99 were 40% off. They were 2.99 and the cashier was going to give me 40% and I said no they weren't included in the sale. Not because I'm a perfect person, because I am so not, but saving a couple of dollars at Hobby Lobby isn't worth my conscience bothering me or ripping them off. They're all working hard trying to earn a living, too, and I know my husband and I work hard for our money as well. I know all the people working at the grocery store or farmers are working hard too and lying to them about something I'm buying isn't really going to help any of us.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Jerry on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:59 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:
Dave-O wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:Voice on the other side here:

I've played Augusta National as a bandit. I have nothing against it. I even took the complimentary tees and balls! Oh no!

Really, country clubs aren't there to make people money. They're there to provide a private and prestigious setting to golf.

The only "real" issue with bandit-ing is insurance issues. Technically, I believe the the Club is responsible for you if you're on the course. And you're not insured, having not signed up. So... there's that. But really, just don't sue. Or cause problems.

Play it, enjoy the famous holes, and have fun, etc.

Slippery slope upon which you are standing.

Country clubs make a ton of money. I have a buddy who works at a golf course. They rack in a boatload of cash. Marathons pale in comparison.

---

Matt - Really? Part of the erosion of our society is me bandit-ing a race? Come on...

---

I don't care of people bandit races I'm running in. If they place in the top 3, as happened in a race I was in, thus bumping me out... Yeah, I'm upset. But the race director takes care of that.

Then again, you're also talking to a guy who thinks the whole self-checkout revolution at grocery stores so they can save money is a perfect way to take advantage of the lack of oversight and say your vine-ripened tomatoes are Roma tomatoes, thus saving $2/lb.

My moral compass is, by some of your standards, hazy, I'd imagine.

It's not a big deal to bandit it. But I think what Matt is saying is it ism quite wrong to rationalize it, which I agree. At least it is uncool. Heehee.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Jerry on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:05 pm

I actually thought about this before that its a rarer opportunity to spectate a major marathon. Think about it, many of us spend $$$ coming from out of town to run big marathons. How many are willing to just go watch. Even for in town folks, it's very difficult to skip the race. I know I wouldn't. So we end up never watching one. Would you watch a free Super Bowl game?

So, I would take advantage to spectate the event, maybe research a route that I can run around to watch elites multiple times. Problem solved.

You are welcome! lol!
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  cnyoung19 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:10 pm

Thanks for everyone's opinions...I really didn't mean to cause a fuss. I guess I didn't really think it all through. I'll find a route to run, and enjoy the weekend. Good luck to everyone running in Chicago - the weather looks like it's going to be great!

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Mike MacLellan on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:48 pm

Julie wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:

Then again, you're also talking to a guy who thinks the whole self-checkout revolution at grocery stores so they can save money is a perfect way to take advantage of the lack of oversight and say your vine-ripened tomatoes are Roma tomatoes, thus saving $2/lb.

My moral compass is, by some of your standards, hazy, I'd imagine.

Well, yes because that is stealing, too. For me, my integrity isn't worth a dollar or two at the grocery store. I bought little foam cut out critters for my daughter and niece today and foam items ofter 5.99 were 40% off. They were 2.99 and the cashier was going to give me 40% and I said no they weren't included in the sale. Not because I'm a perfect person, because I am so not, but saving a couple of dollars at Hobby Lobby isn't worth my conscience bothering me or ripping them off. They're all working hard trying to earn a living, too, and I know my husband and I work hard for our money as well. I know all the people working at the grocery store or farmers are working hard too and lying to them about something I'm buying isn't really going to help any of us.

Farmers and employees get paid the same regardless. It's the big business that I'm "hurting," if you can call it that. Doesn't bother me a smidgen.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:54 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:

Farmers and employees get paid the same regardless. It's the big business that I'm "hurting," if you can call it that. Doesn't bother me a smidgen.

You don't really understand how business works. The dollars you save are NOT at the expense of some 'business' or the executives that run that business... those dollars are factored into the pricing... and other regular people end up paying for what you take. You can't cheat business, you can only make others (like me) pay for what you take. Thanks for that.

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:00 am

cnyoung19 wrote:Thanks for everyone's opinions...I really didn't mean to cause a fuss. I guess I didn't really think it all through. I'll find a route to run, and enjoy the weekend. Good luck to everyone running in Chicago - the weather looks like it's going to be great!

Yes, the weather looks AWESOME!!! My PR is from Chicago '10, and while it wasn't like '07, it was still warm... glad to see it's going to be PR weather for those racing! I'm out this year... pale

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:37 am

Mr MattM wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:

Farmers and employees get paid the same regardless. It's the big business that I'm "hurting," if you can call it that. Doesn't bother me a smidgen.

You don't really understand how business works. The dollars you save are NOT at the expense of some 'business' or the executives that run that business... those dollars are factored into the pricing... and other regular people end up paying for what you take. You can't cheat business, you can only make others (like me) pay for what you take. Thanks for that.

Sorry, I don't believe my taking of a few on-the-vine tomatoes instead of roma tomatoes in California affects your pricing at all. Just not buying it.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Julie on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:56 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:

Sorry, I don't believe my taking of a few on-the-vine tomatoes instead of roma tomatoes in California affects your pricing at all. Just not buying it.

Shoplifting does affect prices. They raise prices on everything else to compensate for their losses from shoplifters so we're all paying for it.
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:09 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:
Sorry, I don't believe my taking of a few on-the-vine tomatoes instead of roma tomatoes in California affects your pricing at all. Just not buying it.

Okay, then. It just so happens that I am a business intelligence expert currently working for a large retailer. What do I know? Clearly, we have very different ethics and character qualities, and no amount of discussion here is going to change that. So, I'll just move along and wish you well.

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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Jerry on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:43 am

Mr MattM wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:
Sorry, I don't believe my taking of a few on-the-vine tomatoes instead of roma tomatoes in California affects your pricing at all. Just not buying it.

Okay, then. It just so happens that I am a business intelligence expert currently working for a large retailer. What do I know? Clearly, we have very different ethics and character qualities, and no amount of discussion here is going to change that. So, I'll just move along and wish you well.

Hope it's not the evil walmart. lol!
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Re: Running Chicago as a training run

Post  Dave-O on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 am

cnyoung19 wrote:Thanks for everyone's opinions...I really didn't mean to cause a fuss. I guess I didn't really think it all through. I'll find a route to run, and enjoy the weekend. Good luck to everyone running in Chicago - the weather looks like it's going to be great!

The fuss definitely isn't directly specifically at you, so pleased don't take offense. Banditting races is always a hot-button issue. Plus rest assured, you aren't the only one considering such a plan. I like to think the posts in this thread just helped provide the viewpoint against such a practice so you can decide for yourself what to do.

I will also say, though, that the lakefront path is steps from the finish line of the marathon. Jerry mentioned spectating. Here's what I would do: Grab a Starbucks and get to the finish line bleachers by 8:30. Watch the elites finish. Walk to the path and head north. There are mile markers and water fountains at least every half mile.
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