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Switch pace run and long run?

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Switch pace run and long run?

Post  ssilvert on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:50 pm

Is it OK if I do my long runs on Saturday and do my pace runs on Sunday?
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  T Miller on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:21 pm

I hope so because I may have to do that too.
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Diego on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Why not run the pace part within the long run?
You then have more options the next day e.g. easy or moderate effort
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  JohnP on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:49 pm

Building on Diego's remark, can you just do the fast finish long runs each week and then an easy run Sunday? I know both Stan and Tim are strong runners but it seems that a good solid long run needs a day or two of recovery. it takes more out of you than a pace run does.
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Admin on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:11 pm

You can do your long runs and pace runs whenever you like. Really.Laughing

That said, I'd be less inclined to do pace runs following long runs because pace runs are very specific... and if you are fatigued from the long run you could push too hard to hit your MP, or simply not be able to sustain your MP for the duration. When you do the pace run before the long run it doesn't matter too much, because long run pace isn't specific... it's just easy. If you are fatigued from your pace run you can always run the long run a little slower...

Now, that said, I don't really even like pace runs, so I recommend not doing them. I like the idea of doing the long run as a progression and then just run easy on Sunday.

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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  ssilvert on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:51 am

@ssilvert wrote:Is it OK if I do my long runs on Saturday and do my pace runs on Sunday?

I guess nobody got the joke? I thought at least a few Hal Higdon old timers would appreciate a classic question. Oh well.

Anyway, since this is now a serious thread, I'll just say that I do like pace runs. For marathon success, I think getting the pace right is paramount. My thought is that you should practice race conditions as much as possible. Like we always used to say in baseball, "You practice how you play."

Stan
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Admin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 am

I wondered... Laughing

As for pace runs, if you're hitting your goal MP on race day with close half splits then I'd say it's working for you. In my experience, many people have really poor sense of their MP and after logging all those MP runs they blow up and miss their goal on race day.

From a practical standpoint MP is not the best pace to stimulate physiological adaptations. It's not that it's bad, it's just not optimal.

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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  ssilvert on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:28 am

@Mr MattM wrote:I wondered... Laughing

As for pace runs, if you're hitting your goal MP on race day with close half splits then I'd say it's working for you. In my experience, many people have really poor sense of their MP and after logging all those MP runs they blow up and miss their goal on race day.

From a practical standpoint MP is not the best pace to stimulate physiological adaptations. It's not that it's bad, it's just not optimal.

I agree with you on that last point. It's not so much a physiological benefit. That comes from other workouts. The benefit is in learning pace as a skill.

I do my pace runs on a track where I try to run every lap at exactly marathon pace. I find that after several weeks of doing that workout I can not only hit marathon pace but I can even shift gears, running a couple of seconds faster or slower per lap if I want. It's a very useful skill and I do think it pays off on race day if you use it.

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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Jerry on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:46 am

Now I get it, but the moment has passed. They say it lasts 72 hours.......
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Diego on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:05 pm

@ssilvert wrote:
@ssilvert wrote:Is it OK if I do my long runs on Saturday and do my pace runs on Sunday?

I guess nobody got the joke? I thought at least a few Hal Higdon old timers would appreciate a classic question. Oh well.

Anyway, since this is now a serious thread, I'll just say that I do like pace runs. For marathon success, I think getting the pace right is paramount. My thought is that you should practice race conditions as much as possible. Like we always used to say in baseball, "You practice how you play."

Stan

I thought about that for a bit(because of Stan's experience) but realized too late that I had already excavated those HH memories.

Sheesh, I can't even remember some of those classic controversial threads. Anybody care to re-enlighten me?

Wait, I can think of one... Can I still run a marathon if I have only run 5 miles per week and drink 5 red bulls each hour?
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  dot520 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:26 pm

I sort of 'got it' but then my thought was....Why is Stan asking this? He already knows this stuff!Smile
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Mark B on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:32 pm

@Diego wrote:
@ssilvert wrote:
@ssilvert wrote:Is it OK if I do my long runs on Saturday and do my pace runs on Sunday?

I guess nobody got the joke? I thought at least a few Hal Higdon old timers would appreciate a classic question. Oh well.

Anyway, since this is now a serious thread, I'll just say that I do like pace runs. For marathon success, I think getting the pace right is paramount. My thought is that you should practice race conditions as much as possible. Like we always used to say in baseball, "You practice how you play."

Stan

I thought about that for a bit(because of Stan's experience) but realized too late that I had already excavated those HH memories.

Sheesh, I can't even remember some of those classic controversial threads. Anybody care to re-enlighten me?

Wait, I can think of one... Can I still run a marathon if I have only run 5 miles per week and drink 5 red bulls each hour?

I remember the kerfuffle over somebody wanting to buy (or was it sell?) a bib.

Speaking of which, anybody seen Julio lately? Very Happy
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Re: Switch pace run and long run?

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:35 pm

Julio lives in Chicago, is in great shape and I think he is running tomorrow.
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