It's always something.....

So, I knocked out a 22 miler last Saturday, probably about 10 seconds per mile faster than I should have, and am still feeling the effects of it four days later. I ran 6 really easy on Sunday, took Monday off, 6 more easy miles yesterday instead of a planned tempo run and then went ahead and did my planned 14 miler today. I took it a little slower than usual due to my legs still not quite being all there.

Here's the question. I had planned to take Friday off to do my long run because I won't have time over the weekend. I'm 3 weeks out from my marathon (Philly on 11/18) as of Sunday. I was planning 18-20, but that was before I didn't get any faster miles in this week. What should my plan be? Just stick to a regular long run even if my legs bounce back by then? Do a fast finish if I'm up to it? And if my legs haven't bounced back by then, how do I approach taper?

I would play it safe and just run the long run. You just completed 22 miles at a pretty decent pace, which means that you have put the time and miles on your legs. Completing an easy 18-20 should allow to enter your taper healthy and in great shape. I always have to remind myself that I need to make it to race day healthy in order to reach my goals.

Nick Morris wrote:I would play it safe and just run the long run. You just completed 22 miles at a pretty decent pace, which means that you have put the time and miles on your legs. Completing an easy 18-20 should allow to enter your taper healthy and in great shape. I always have to remind myself that I need to make it to race day healthy in order to reach my goals.

+1

Those 22-milers can take more out of you than you think. You won't get much of a benefit of pushing it at this point; in fact, there's more risk of something going wrong if you push too hard.

I always look at three weeks out as my last opportunity to make any gains. I would go into the long run thinking that I may do a fast finish if everything feels good.

First, do the long run whether or not your legs 'feel up to it'. That's an important part of the training stimulous. I have found that often my legs will feel dead until 7-8 miles into a LR.

Second, pace isn't that important. Don't worry about missing a tempo run or whether you should do a fast finish LR. Training is a macro process, not a micro process. In the context of all of your training to this point, do you think it matters if one tempo run turned into a 'regular' run? It doesn't. Just roll with it and get in the last miles that you have in your plan.

Third and finally, don't fall into the trap of trying to up your training during taper. The same thought process that leads to the question you asked about your LR can lead to questioning the runs you have scheduled during your taper period. Your legs will start to feel better, and you'll start thinking about doing more/faster miles. Don't.

There's my $0.02...

Mr MattM wrote:
Second, pace isn't that important. Don't worry about missing a tempo run or whether you should do a fast finish LR. Training is a macro process, not a micro process. In the context of all of your training to this point, do you think it matters if one tempo run turned into a 'regular' run? It doesn't. Just roll with it and get in the last miles that you have in your plan.

This. If you think your whole training is really lacking in uptempo work, then you might want to go for a 20mi w/ FF. If overall you're pretty satisfied, remember that the last 12-4 weeks of your training are what matter. Yes, you can make gains 2-3 weeks out, but if the last two months have been solid, you're golden.

Mr MattM wrote:First, do the long run whether or not your legs 'feel up to it'. That's an important part of the training stimulous. I have found that often my legs will feel dead until 7-8 miles into a LR.

Second, pace isn't that important. Don't worry about missing a tempo run or whether you should do a fast finish LR. Training is a macro process, not a micro process. In the context of all of your training to this point, do you think it matters if one tempo run turned into a 'regular' run? It doesn't. Just roll with it and get in the last miles that you have in your plan.

Third and finally, don't fall into the trap of trying to up your training during taper. The same thought process that leads to the question you asked about your LR can lead to questioning the runs you have scheduled during your taper period. Your legs will start to feel better, and you'll start thinking about doing more/faster miles. Don't.

There's my $0.02...

I agree with the above. At this point if your training has been so so and you haven't been consistent with building tempo runs or for a lack of better term speed stuff. Although I consider Tempo runs more a stamina builder which helps push the LT to be able to hold a faster pace for a longer period. I wouldn't even come close to worrying about doing any workouts of this type the rest of the training cycle.

If you are some what in the same boat that I was with my training for Chicago hopefully you can find some comfort in the fact that I did ZERO Tempo runs/speed stuff. I just ran with a good mix of really easy runs to easy runs and focused more on running for time. The body doesn't have a clue of miles but it does understand duration/time. So if you are planning on a 3:xx marathon I would make sure that you are getting in long runs at that time or close to it. The more runs you get in around that time I feel the better chance you have allow your body to receive the benefits of the adaption that you get from running for a long period of time.

For as much as I love doing tempo runs and speed stuff my personal opinion is that it overrated for the normal runner to some extent. That is a completely different discussion. Again bottom line to me is that if your training and has been so so and I really think that you will get the biggest bang from your training by running as much as possible and allowing the body to take those benefits in and also allowing the body to recover as much as possible and feel fresh.

I also didn't do my normal taper this past training cycle basically train through but did cut the mileage the week of Chicago. Anyway just my thoughts on an opinion you have. Note although this worked for me it wasn't the ideally way that i like to train but found it the correct and right way with how things were going. Instead of stressing myself over I need to do this type of run and I have to run fast blah blah I just ran and ended up having a fun/successful and stress free race.

My training cycle has gone relatively well, with a few solid tempos and some 8 x 800 work outs mixed in. It's probably more a mental thing at this point than anything else because I haven't really had the string of really good tempo runs going into taper that I've had in the past. I'll probably go the route Matt suggested and do the long run at a reasonable pace and throw in the fast finish if my legs are there for it. If not, I'll be satisfied that I've built up the endurance to go the distance well since this will be my fourth 20+ miler this cycle.

My favorite quote: from me if I didn't steal it from who knows where. "SAVE IT FOR RACE DAY!!!!" If you ain't feeling it, why chance it? You've done 4-20's already!! If you have to ask, that must mean you're feeling some exhaustion from all the training. The point at this point is to get to that start line fully rested and recovered so you can nail your target. Everyone has their approach with a lot of similarities and some differences. You need to find what works for you and that may take some trial and error. Personally I peak low miles 56/week and only did 2 total 20's last cycle. I did do a combo of 200/400/800/1600& hill repeats with a group once/ week this year. I decided to go with the free coach and to my surprise I PR'd. I would listen to your body and play it by ear trying to stick with your plan as best a possible, but be cautious. Good luck my friend.

If it was me, I wouldn't do 18-20 this week instead I cut it back to 15 or so. Why? Because I go over and into the abyss easily and often, so I have to make sure it is a balance between doing too much. I know when I've been where you are, I've over done it. I don't know how your body responds, but if you have a history (like I do) of going over the edge, I'd play it very safe.

I think the overall theme of everyone's posts is to play it safe.

Jim,

All good options above however, if your asking the question then you probably want to stay on the conservative side whatever that maybe for your. Your goal I think is to get to the line healthy and with energy. If I recall you have had over-training in the past and felt flat come race day.

That said I got a time on my feet run tomorrow (3 hours and 14 minutes). I am nervous!