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Stalking 50

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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Penelope on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:32 pm

Holy cow, that elevation profile is no joke! The pics of it look gorgeous.
Happy 50th! That geico commercial with the camel makes me laugh every time.  
Glad to hear Alita's toe is recovering nicely.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:10 pm

@Penelope wrote:Holy cow, that elevation profile is no joke! The pics of it look gorgeous.
Happy 50th! That geico commercial with the camel makes me laugh every time.  
Glad to hear Alita's toe is recovering nicely.
Hey, Kathy! Thanks for stopping by - and thanks for the BD wishes.

I've been playing PT at home, helping Alita work on the range of motion in her toe. She gets the stitches out tomorrow, which means she can get out of the surgery shoe. She's looking forward to that. We're hoping she keeps making good progress and can get back to work before her vacation and sick leave days run out.

I didn't get a chance to run yesterday, partly because I've got some tightness and sorness in my left foot/shin. I suspect it's from my high-speed barefoot birthday frolic; I probably moved more onto my toes as I sped up. It should settle down soon.



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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Wow, I'd skip that race, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  nkrichards on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:35 pm

Have I ever mentioned that I think you are simply crazy...

Not sure any view would convince me to run those hills/mountains.  Give me some good hiking shoes and a backpack and I'm game. But running?
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:45 am

And to add that I've run on "trails" in the Napa valley and Sonoma - nothing like that.  The best part is the WINE at the end.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:08 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Wow, I'd skip that race, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
Well, maybe... in that somewhat unusual way that some folks define "enjoy." Wink

@nkrichards wrote:Have I ever mentioned that I think you are simply crazy...

Not sure any view would convince me to run those hills/mountains.  Give me some good hiking shoes and a backpack and I'm game. But running?
Oh, trust me, Nancy. At the speed you have to go on some of those (up)hills, hiking is pretty much the order of the day for the non-elite. Now the downhills? Those could be a blast.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:And to add that I've run on "trails" in the Napa valley and Sonoma - nothing like that.  The best part is the WINE at the end.
I think they have a wine tasting the next day, which is a pretty nice way to compensate friends and families dragged out into the hills for a day.Smile

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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:49 pm

Hill Run: 6 miles

Weather: Mostly cloudy, mild. 50 degrees. Gear: Instincts, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket/vest. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee. Carried nuun in handheld.

I didn't have huge expectations for this run -- I can tell my fitness and enthusiasm are in a bit of an ebb right now -- but I wanted to get a little extra stimulus today and headed out on one of my hilly routes. Besides, if I keep to what I've been considering, I'll be doing a lot of my runs on hills for the forseeable future. Best start getting used to it now.

My plan was to keep the heart rate low and shift from a walk to a power hike when the HR climbed too high. I noticed at one point that I was chugging along at a 21/mi pace that my heart rate was still too high, so I switched to walking, sped up and saw the HR ease up a bit. Good to know.

All in all, it was an okay run. I should have turned around sooner, I think. It's difficult doing a mental reset on training when you were throwing down big miles earlier in the year. You think you should still be able to do them now, whether you can or not.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 133

Just for giggles and graphical interest, here's the elevation profile.



Like I said, if I end up doing what I'm considering next year, I'll be running this route a LOT.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:09 pm

This is a noticed first!  We were out in the same morning at the same temperature.  Shocked 

Our weathermen are threatening that in a week, we will have lows in the 30's. affraid affraid 

I hope it's on a day when I get to run.Ride
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Sounds like awesome weather to run. You should go frolic in in, whether you have a run scheduled or not. Smile
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  nkrichards on Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:47 am

@Mark B wrote:Sounds like awesome weather to run. You should go frolic in in, whether you have a run scheduled or not. Smile
+1  I love running in the cold weather.  I think our marathon started at 29 and finished at 35 with a slight breeze.  I do not like running in the rain or the wind so I'm glad I don't run in your area.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:05 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Sounds like awesome weather to run. You should go frolic in in, whether you have a run scheduled or not. Smile
+1  I love running in the cold weather.  I think our marathon started at 29 and finished at 35 with a slight breeze.  I do not like running in the rain or the wind so I'm glad I don't run in your area.
Wind and rain isn't a lot of fun, that's for sure. One time, I blundered into hypothermia and made it home with a body temperature in the low 90s. That was a weird, uncomfortable experience.

Usually, it's not that bad -- just sort of like running inside your refrigerator's produce drawer: chilly and damp.

But I'm a huge fan of chilly race mornings. Brr. My best-ever race had temperatures right at freezing at the start, with only slight warming during the race. It was awesome.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:51 pm

Low HR Run: 8.24 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, cool. 44 degrees. Gear: Instincts, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat, gloves (shed). Fuel: Coffee and Grape Nuts. Nothing during.

So I remembered to set the alarm this morning, which made my Sunday run much more pleasant. I had time to get some calories and caffeine in me, and get a little stretching in. It helped a lot.

My training partner and I went out on your usual route, and I had better luck keeping my heart rate where it needed to be. We had to walk a few times, and we weren't particularly speedy, but it went pretty well, considering.

Walked first 5, last 6 minutes. Average HR 135.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:50 pm

Lab Testing Day!

Lots of activity at the Nike Sports Research Lab, and I think I'm going to feel it tomorrow.

I started off with the usual shoe testing on the indoor track, festooned with reflectors and running at a decent clip over and over again in different shoes. That went well, though I wish I could figure out how to translate what feels so easy at short distance into something that I could sustain for a lot longer....

Normally, the running is it, but they had an extra surprise for me that was a great workout and left me feeling kinda wobbly-legged afterward. Smile
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  ounce on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:38 pm

@Mark B wrote:Lab Testing Day!

Lots of activity at the Nike Sports Research Lab, and I think I'm going to feel it tomorrow.

I started off with the usual shoe testing on the indoor track, festooned with reflectors and running at a decent clip over and over again in different shoes. That went well, though I wish I could figure out how to translate what feels so easy at short distance into something that I could sustain for a lot longer....

Normally, the running is it, but they had an extra surprise for me that was a great workout and left me feeling kinda wobbly-legged afterward. Smile
I wouldn't be a good lab rat for that.

I wish I could figure out how much faster at a shorter distance I could go at the long run pace I do.

Glad you had a tired good time.  Have they branded your fanny with a swoosh?
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:28 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Lab Testing Day!

Lots of activity at the Nike Sports Research Lab, and I think I'm going to feel it tomorrow.

I started off with the usual shoe testing on the indoor track, festooned with reflectors and running at a decent clip over and over again in different shoes. That went well, though I wish I could figure out how to translate what feels so easy at short distance into something that I could sustain for a lot longer....

Normally, the running is it, but they had an extra surprise for me that was a great workout and left me feeling kinda wobbly-legged afterward. Smile
I wouldn't be a good lab rat for that.

I wish I could figure out how much faster at a shorter distance I could go at the long run pace I do.

Glad you had a tired good time.  Have they branded your fanny with a swoosh?
No swoosh, but I probably have a dozen little dots on me where they marked me for the reflectors. Smile

Only one way to find out how fast you can run at a shorter distance, you know... Twisted Evil 
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:29 pm

Walk: 2.2 miles

Weather: Overcast, cool and damp. 53 degrees.

Trying to get back into my lunchtime walking habit. I did my usual short route down along the Columbia River. It felt nice to get moving again. It's been too long. My ankles were a bit sore from my fun yesterday, but the walk helped everything loosen up a bit.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  ounce on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:50 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Lab Testing Day!

Lots of activity at the Nike Sports Research Lab, and I think I'm going to feel it tomorrow.

I started off with the usual shoe testing on the indoor track, festooned with reflectors and running at a decent clip over and over again in different shoes. That went well, though I wish I could figure out how to translate what feels so easy at short distance into something that I could sustain for a lot longer....

Normally, the running is it, but they had an extra surprise for me that was a great workout and left me feeling kinda wobbly-legged afterward. Smile
I wouldn't be a good lab rat for that.

I wish I could figure out how much faster at a shorter distance I could go at the long run pace I do.

Glad you had a tired good time.  Have they branded your fanny with a swoosh?
No swoosh, but I probably have a dozen little dots on me where they marked me for the reflectors. Smile

Only one way to find out how fast you can run at a shorter distance, you know... Twisted Evil 
A soon-to-be video game star!   or thug?
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:59 pm

@ounce wrote:A soon-to-be video game star!   or thug?
lol! 

Took me a second, but I finally got it. Funny!

Considering my running form, I think it'd be motion capture for a videogame version of World War Z. Wink
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:45 pm

Walk: 3.1 miles

Weather: Mostly clear, cool, breezy. 54 degrees.

I tried a barefoot run this morning but ended it after a simple lap around the block -- my legs are still feeling Monday's fun -- but I talked myself into a walk at lunch today, to at least keep moving.

I took a route over the Interstate Bridge into Oregon and back. It's a classic fall day, with some patchy fog breaking up, sun and a cool breeze. My legs complained at first but eventually settled into the walk. I picked up the pace a little, averaging just under 3 mph, even with the climbing up the hump of the bridge both ways. About as fast as I can go wearing work clothes. :-)

I'll probably take a day off tomorrow. I'm getting some testers soon and will need to be ready to pick up the miles pretty quickly. This ought to be interesting...
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:03 am

Yes, I changed my avatar. 

I got tired of seeing myself running in the woods. It seems like that race was n-e-v-e-r was going to end. 

Speaking of which, there are ways the Mount Hood 50 actually hasn't ended for me yet. I'm still discovering new and interesting things as a result of that frolic in the forest four months ago. The latest hit me out of the blue a day or so ago, and came as a bit of a shock: There's a part of me that's kinda pissed off that I couldn't stick with my decision to quit. Crazy, huh? 

Anyway, all this -- and what feels like an interminably slow comeback -- has me wondering a bit about whether I'm going to be ready to chase a big 50-mile ultra in the spring. I had focused on Lake Sonoma because it worked with our school vacation schedule, not for any other reason - though it does look beautiful, cool and very challenging. 

It still might happen. But it might end up being something else.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:48 pm

Seems like you're suffering from PTLD - Post Traumatic Last Disorder.

I wish I could help you, but the time it happened to me, I was escorting a San Antonio police car, therefore it was on the road.  I didn't actually finish last, but I was the last person ahead of the course opening cops.

I would look at last year's finishers at Sonoma to see if you're guaranteed not finishing last, if that's a goal.

Suck it up, boy, and move on (with all due respect).
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:23 pm

Hm. Ego finally fighting back against being DFL? Interesting theory. May even be some truth in it. As much as you try to be a good sport about it, it is pretty tough to come in last place. Tougher than dropping? I guess that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? Maybe.

Anyway, I guess I need to at least mull over the possibilities so I can, as you say, move on.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:12 pm

Moving on...

---

Low HR Run: 50 minutes (4.09 miles)

Weather: Overcast, cool. 44 degrees. Gear: Instincts, shorts, T, pullover, jacket, hat (doffed), gloves (shed). Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee for breakfast. No fluid during.

Weird, out-of-sync morning. Woke up in the middle of a taper-style dream, smacked my previously-mashed big toe on a door and generally stumbled around trying to decide if running would make it better or worse.

I opted for a run, but I decided to take it as easy as I could. And since I have a bad habit of extending my out-and-back runs only to find out I should have run less, I picked a loop route of just about four miles. Glad I did.

The run started out surprisingly easy -- my HR dipped to 50 just as I started my warmup, and it stayed pretty low in the first mile or two. After that, it started to creep a bit, and I had to walk a couple of times to bring it down.

The route was one I'd given up several years ago because of unsafe conditions. But the county spent all summer rebuilding the road and installing a very nice sidewalk, so it's quite pedestrian-friendly now. Heck, it'd be a good loop for barefooting, too. Hm...

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 128
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:41 pm

@Mark B wrote:Hm. Ego finally fighting back against being DFL? Interesting theory. May even be some truth in it. As much as you try to be a good sport about it, it is pretty tough to come in last place. Tougher than dropping? I guess that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? Maybe.

Anyway, I guess I need to at least mull over the possibilities so I can, as you say, move on.
I can't fully relate to being in your shoes, as you're much faster than I and have had better success in running than I.  But from a habitual back-of-the-pack runner, it sucks being back there.  But I'm in the race and I've never had anyone question the legitimacy of the medal or finisher's shirt, afterwards.  "Great job, man, I couldn't do that."  And I was a fat guy back then (you should see the drivers license picture from 2004 and today).

I FINISHED and have an official time to prove it.  Even if I didn't have an official time, I still finished.

You FINISHED and have an official time to prove it.  You trained for, ran, and officially finished a 50 mile race and that's nothing to sneeze at, even by the NYT.  Who the f-----rick cares what place?  Sure, you want to do your best and not finish last.  It doesn't always turn out like we would like to have it.  We lick our egos, learn from it and turn the page.

You have the tools and mental ability to do another 50.  Put the first one behind you, sir.  The first one will feed the training for the second.  You'll be fine.  Isn't there a shoe company that says, "Just Do It."?

You might need a rallying cry to spur you on.  In Texas, we have two historical rallying cries:  Remember the Alamo and Remember Goliad to get the blood flowing.

Maybe Remember Mt. Hood?  Sorry for being preachy.
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Re: Stalking 50

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:45 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Hm. Ego finally fighting back against being DFL? Interesting theory. May even be some truth in it. As much as you try to be a good sport about it, it is pretty tough to come in last place. Tougher than dropping? I guess that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? Maybe.

Anyway, I guess I need to at least mull over the possibilities so I can, as you say, move on.
I can't fully relate to being in your shoes, as you're much faster than I and have had better success in running than I.  But from a habitual back-of-the-pack runner, it sucks being back there.  But I'm in the race and I've never had anyone question the legitimacy of the medal or finisher's shirt, afterwards.  "Great job, man, I couldn't do that."  And I was a fat guy back then (you should see the drivers license picture from 2004 and today).

I FINISHED and have an official time to prove it.  Even if I didn't have an official time, I still finished.

You FINISHED and have an official time to prove it.  You trained for, ran, and officially finished a 50 mile race and that's nothing to sneeze at, even by the NYT.  Who the f-----rick cares what place?  Sure, you want to do your best and not finish last.  It doesn't always turn out like we would like to have it.  We lick our egos, learn from it and turn the page.

You have the tools and mental ability to do another 50.  Put the first one behind you, sir.  The first one will feed the training for the second.  You'll be fine.  Isn't there a shoe company that says, "Just Do It."?

You might need a rallying cry to spur you on.  In Texas, we have two historical rallying cries:  Remember the Alamo and Remember Goliad to get the blood flowing.

Maybe Remember Mt. Hood?  Sorry for being preachy.
No apologies necessary. Preach away!

I had a feeling that I might get this sort of response. I should have made clear that this is not (repeat, NOT) an existential crisis for me: just paying heed to one of the many aspects of that experience that have been rattling around in my head. It's far from the totality of my psyche.

Related note: Alita has long since given up on asking "what are you thinking?" when she sees me with an odd look on my face. I've tried to explain before, but there are usually so many thoughts running through my head at any given moment that it takes five minutes to explain what I was thinking in the five seconds before she asked me about it. It know that's weird, but it's just how I'm wired.

So, in that vein, it's not unusual for me to happen upon a stray thought and examine it for a while. In this case, it actually didn't have anything to do with me finishing last. It was more about making a decision to take decisive action (dropping), only to cave in at least partly because it was easier to suck it up to the finish than to say "F- it" and stop. The part of me that had convinced itself that "it takes more guts to know when to quit, and do it" was grumbling that I effectively chickened out of dropping.

I'm not saying it's rational. I'm not even saying it's how I truly feel on the whole. I'm glad I finished. I'm proud of what I accomplished. I know that my brain was screwing with me, and my ego was fighting back against the humiliation it felt out there that day in the only way it could: by telling me to pull the plug. But I have to at least acknowledge that bit of weirdness, because it was part of the whole experience.

As I've read more about the psychology of ultras in that book Charles gave me, I'm understanding that learning how to face and wrestle with those sorts of feelings is a big part of the ultra experience. It lays your sole bare. I'm just choosing to poke it a little with a stick now. Smile

It also brings to mind a lyrics from an old, great, Simon and Garfunkel song:

In the clearing stands a boxer 
And a fighter by his trade 
And he carries the reminders 
Of ev'ry glove that layed him down 
Or cut him till he cried out 
In his anger and his shame 
"I am leaving, I am leaving" 
But the fighter still remains 
—from "The Boxer"

The question of what to do next revolves less around this observation about an ego that's still a bit pouty than it does about wanting to be prepared. I'm not saying definitely no to Lake Sonoma, but I'm not saying yes yet, either. I'll see how my body responds to ramping up the miles and take it from there.
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