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Yasso and the Sub-3

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Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:39 pm

I wish I had time to keep a blog about my quest for a Sub-3 marathon. A lot of folks seemed interested last time I mentioned it. I'm in my last week before the taper. This week includes 10 x 800, tempo, 12 miles at race pace, and 20 miles with last 5 at race pace. Total miles this week should be 76.

In the interest of reporting on a big milestone, here is my log entry for the final Yasso 800's I did yesterday:

Henry County High Track
regular shorts, thick long sleeve tech shirt, gloves, (sock cap during wup/cdn only)

Yasso 10 x 800. Felt good. I had lots left at the end. Only mistake was on #3 where I forgot to check my 600 split and I thought I had more time banked than I really did.

Needed to average 2:59. Actual average was 2:57.4.

Splits:
2:58
2:58
3:00
2:59
2:58
2:58
2:55
2:58
2:56
2:54

Weather:
11:15 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 21.2 °F 39% 30.11 in 10.0 mi East 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:35 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:55 AM 44.6 °F 43.1 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 3.5 mph - N/A Clear
12:15 PM 48.2 °F - 17.6 °F 30% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear
12:35 PM 48.2 °F - 12.2 °F 24% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear

Total of 12.06 miles in 1:28:42
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Diego on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:46 pm

Nice work Stan. sub-3 is in range. I like the times for the last few repeats. Good luck!!!

For your next race, try this one: Run the same pace and cut the jog interval down to 90-100 seconds.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:01 pm

@Diego wrote:Nice work Stan. sub-3 is in range. I like the times for the last few repeats. Good luck!!!

For your next race, try this one: Run the same pace and cut the jog interval down to 90-100 seconds.
I should have mentioned that. An interval workout doesn't mean much if you don't specify the interval!

I do a 400 jog in between. Not sure if that is standard for Yasso's, but it is what I did the last time I followed this modified Hal Higdon Advanced II plan. So the intervals end up being around 2:30. This workout is tough enough already. 90-100 seconds would be extra-tough!

Stan
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:11 pm

Looks good, Stan. It's great to see you've been putting in the miles. Those 800s are a good confidence boost to take you into the taper. Are doing the traditional 3 week?

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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:50 pm

@Mr MattM wrote:Looks good, Stan. It's great to see you've been putting in the miles. Those 800s are a good confidence boost to take you into the taper. Are doing the traditional 3 week?
Yes, same taper with a few extra miles thrown in. Hal's taper worked for me before, so I'm doing it again.

Stan
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:15 pm

Definitely looks like everything is coming together and the ellusive sub-3 is there for the taking!!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  T Miller on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:18 am

It looks like you're primed and ready to run that sub 3. Now the only things that remain are of course the remainder of your peak week runs, taper, race day weather and execution. Stay focused on the things that you can control and hope for the best for the others. Which race are you targeting? I hope the weather cooperates and I wish you the best.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:36 am

@T Miller wrote:It looks like you're primed and ready to run that sub 3. Now the only things that remain are of course the remainder of your peak week runs, taper, race day weather and execution. Stay focused on the things that you can control and hope for the best for the others. Which race are you targeting? I hope the weather cooperates and I wish you the best.

Snicker's Albany Marathon in Albany, GA
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  fostever on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:07 pm

Here's a couple good articles that asserts the 800 repeats may not be the best selection for marathon training and may be off a bit as a predictor. http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/yasso-800s/ and http://www.hillrunner.com/articles/article.php/yasso_800s
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:33 pm

Funny. I actually came across that first article yesterday. First, correlation vs. causation arguments are usually pretty silly when you think about them. There is no provable causation between smoking and cancer. Does that stop us from concluding that smoking is bad for your health?

He says he thinks Yasso's are off by about five minutes because most people don't have the aerobic base to cash in on the base speed that the Yasso's display. That may be a good argument, but it probably doesn't apply to me because I have been running distance for almost 10 years now. And I spent the whole summer base-building with several weeks in the 70's and 80's.

That author argues that Yasso 800's are not a good marathon workout because it is a VO2 max workout. I disagree. Maybe traditional Yasso 800's are run all out. But I don't do them all out. If you look at my splits, I was sandbagging most of the time. I wanted to hold back and make sure I could finish strong. 10 x 800 is more mentally tough that physically tough. It's a long workout that takes a lot of concentration. That by itself is good for marathon training.

Even the author admits that Yasso 800's do some physiological good for a marathon. He just says that there are better workouts you should be doing. Well, I'm doing the ones he suggests. Like this author, Hal is big on marathon pace workouts. I believe in them too. Friday I will do 12 miles at pace. The next day, I'll do 20 miles with the last 5 at pace. That last peak week workout is the one that will really tell me if I'm ready. Five miles at pace on super-tired legs are just what this author has ordered.

I'll be ready.

Stan
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  mul21 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:35 pm

Yeah, those both kind of reflect the opinion here of Yassos being more of a negative indicator than anything else, i.e. if you can't do them, you're definitely not going to hit your marathon goal.

There's definitely a place for VO2max work in a marathon program, but I don't think it should be the focus by any means.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Seth Harrison on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:47 pm

Just curious Stan, I see that you're doing your 20 with the last 5 at MP. What's
the most amount of MP miles you've done in a long run this training
cycle (not counting the long tempo runs at MP)?
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:30 pm

@Seth Harrison wrote:Just curious Stan, I see that you're doing your 20 with the last 5 at MP. What's
the most amount of MP miles you've done in a long run this training
cycle (not counting the long tempo runs at MP)?

The 12 miles on Friday will be the longest at MP. Two Fridays ago I did 11 at MP. Hal's normal schedule stops at 10, but since I've extended the program four weeks I've kept adding miles. These MP runs are done the day before the long run.

I will do 5 20-milers. The last one is this Saturday. The first, third, and fifth ones are "fast-finish" with miles at marathon pace. For those I've done 3, 4, and 5 miles of MP.

Stan
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Jerry on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:20 pm

If Jerry could pull this off, Jerry would be ready for sub 2:49. So Jerry thinks Stan is more than ready.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Ben Z on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:52 am

If you can do what you have planned this week, and hit your paces, you will have the fitness to run sub 3. Good luck!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  T Miller on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:06 am

@Ben Z wrote:If you can do what you have planned this week, and hit your paces, you will have the fitness to run sub 3. Good luck!

+1

How's that for a little motivation for the remainder of the week?

Be careful out there since you're probably walking a fine line with respect to injury.
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Peak Week Done

Post  ssilvert on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:36 pm

I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:

Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.

Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.

Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Ben Z on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:45 pm

@ssilvert wrote:I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:

Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.

Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.

Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.

You should be. You are ready my friend.
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Nick Morris on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:22 pm

You got this!!!!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Dave-O on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:43 pm

@ssilvert wrote:I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:

Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.

Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.

Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.

This Friday/Saturday combo should give you all the confidence you need. You are definitely ready!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  ssilvert on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:53 am

65 minutes til the start. Wish me luck!

Stan
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Bob on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:38 am

Good luck!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Dave-O on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:41 pm

Groove, trust, endure!
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  John Kilpatrick on Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:14 pm

Sorry that we missed Stan - can't wait to read your report. It was cold today! Great racing weather but brutal before and after (for a wussie from south Georgia anyway). Curious to hear your experience too - I've never run any other marathon or half marathon (today) other than Albany.

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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:03 pm

Congrats Stan on a good race.
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