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Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:23 am

Wow, it was kinda humid here this morning!

I did 6 miles on the road, averaging a nice page of 9:17, just taking it easy, and was I ever drenched when I finished up (before 7 a.m.). I was just dripping buckets.

Weather is supposed to break tonight - so it ought to be nice for my bike ride tomorrow a.m.

I feel like I'm getting my legs back, both for the run and for the ride, which is a good feeling indeed.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Chris M on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:39 am

Allright, trail etiquette questions for bike vs runner. I saw a few posts back you talking about the "on your left" thing. I like hearing that when I run. I really like the bell from pretty far back and lot of pretty serious bikers do seem to use that. I don't like the yelled "PASSING" but that's more rare.

Here's my question.

I run on the W&OD Trail which is a paved rails to trails path that a ton of people in the DC area use. Dave, Schuey and Joel ran on it when they visited here and Kevin and I run or even race on it regularly. Pictured below but I imagine it is similar to many similar trails around the country. Now, look at the pic below which is the trail West of my house. If I'm running in my correct lane there on the right and well to the right of the yellow line meanning I'm in the middle of my lane, do I have to do ANYTHING when the bikers pass me? I feel like I've got my spot staked out and I'm just going along at a steady speed with plenty of room to pass me for the bikers but then they yell "ON YOUR LEFT" or "PASSING" and I wonder if they are expecting me to scoot all the way over to the far right side of the right lane to let them go?

I feel like the middle of the lane is mine and I shouldn't have to move over to the gravel or shoulder to let them go. If they want to pass, move out towards the yellow line and do it. Its a hassle and I think unfair for me to in effect have to pull over to the right each time a biker comes up on me. Remember, I'm nowhere near the middle yellow line. I'm firmly in the middle of my own lane. So, Mr. Manners Ann Landers, help me out here.....am I doing it right or when I hear you coming am I supposed to get my butt over to the far right?

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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Tom H on Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:29 am

@Chris M wrote:Allright, trail etiquette questions for bike vs runner. I saw a few posts back you talking about the "on your left" thing. I like hearing that when I run. I really like the bell from pretty far back and lot of pretty serious bikers do seem to use that. I don't like the yelled "PASSING" but that's more rare.

Here's my question.

I run on the W&OD Trail which is a paved rails to trails path that a ton of people in the DC area use. Dave, Schuey and Joel ran on it when they visited here and Kevin and I run or even race on it regularly. Pictured below but I imagine it is similar to many similar trails around the country. Now, look at the pic below which is the trail West of my house. If I'm running in my correct lane there on the right and well to the right of the yellow line meanning I'm in the middle of my lane, do I have to do ANYTHING when the bikers pass me? I feel like I've got my spot staked out and I'm just going along at a steady speed with plenty of room to pass me for the bikers but then they yell "ON YOUR LEFT" or "PASSING" and I wonder if they are expecting me to scoot all the way over to the far right side of the right lane to let them go?

I feel like the middle of the lane is mine and I shouldn't have to move over to the gravel or shoulder to let them go. If they want to pass, move out towards the yellow line and do it. Its a hassle and I think unfair for me to in effect have to pull over to the right each time a biker comes up on me. Remember, I'm nowhere near the middle yellow line. I'm firmly in the middle of my own lane. So, Mr. Manners Ann Landers, help me out here.....am I doing it right or when I hear you coming am I supposed to get my butt over to the far right?


Chris, I'm on both sides of the coin here, riding and running on these types of trails/paths. I've experienced that there are, for wont of a better word, idiots in both camps. As a rider, you find people totally oblivious to the fact that others who are faster than them may be using the path and meander down the middle. Some are startled with the 'on your left' and jump left, but the bigger issue is the large number who have the music playing so loud they can't hear. As a runner, I've experienced idiot bikers who feel they own the path and you should simply get the hell out of their way. I've, on numerous occasions, been brushed by the handlebars or elbows of bikers who are going 20+ mph and used no bell or callout as they came up on me. More than once I've wished I'd brought up my 20 oz carry bottle on that side just as they were going by . . .

That being said, I guess the point of my post is that there are idiots out there and like any time spent near a road the most important thing is your personal safety. Do you have the right to stay on the right half of the trail and make the biker go around you? Yeah, probably so. But if the guy is pissed that day, or is racing with a friend who choses to try and pass right at that time, or the biker swerves a bit to miss a rabid chipmunk, you are the one who with get hammered when he hits you with 175 lbs of pointy bicycle at 20 mph. Sure, he'll get hurt too, but that doesn't help you. As the runner out there, I appreciate the warning, raise my left hand to let them know I heard them and steer slowly (not jump) to the right. It doesn't slow me down and makes it safer for all. I learned this from other runners when I was the biker, and really appreciated the two-way communication that let everyone know both sides knew what was going on (even if they don't edge to the right, I know they are aware of my presence).
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  mul21 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:35 am

My biggest complaint is the bikers who wait until they're about 10 feet from you and the yell, "ON YOUR LEFT" at the top of their lungs. Occasionally scares the crap out of me. I'm usually pretty aware when somebody is approaching because my music isn't on too loud, plus I grew up running on country roads and actually had a teammate suffer a broken arm from an idiot driver once. I much prefer a warning from 25-30 feet back since it's not nearly as close and apt to startle me.

You should be fine just hanging out in the right lane, and, technically, you're a pedestrian and should have right of way anyhow.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:02 pm

Chris - I think you have the right of way as a pedestrian in "your" lane, and shouldn't have to move at all or feel bad about not budging. Having said that, when I'm running and hear a bike approaching, I tend to slide over further out of the way for exactly the reasons stated: I never assume that the person approaching from behind is sane! But I also do give a wave with my left hand to let them know I hear them approaching and don't plan on leaping into their path, because it seems conducive to safety all around.

On the rail trail I run on, its not really open to conjecture - there are rules posted at some of the road crossings or trail heads, and they are explicit about who has the right of way. Not that anyone reads those, but the rules do exist on this trail for all to see!

My biggest problem has traditionally been with people on horseback on this trail. They seem pretty arrogant to me. I was chastised by one of them not that long ago, for running (albeit ever-so-slowly) past them. She (probably correctly) told me that I was endangering myself, because the horses sometimes kick in that situation. It was all in the way she said it - she came off as a real jerk. But she basically was asserting the trail rule that the horseback rider has the right of way (odd, but true, on this trail). I decided not to slam her for riding two abreast (a violation of a trail rule when there is other traffic) or for the piles of horse crap I'd circumvented a half mile earlier (they are supposed to clean that up - that would deter me from horseback riding on the trail!).
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Chris M on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Ok, good answers. For my own safety, I'll try and move a little to the right when I hear them coming. I'm not going to stop and I'm not going to jump right but it doesn't hurt me at all to move as far right as I can while still on the path so I will do that. I do often do the arm wave of acknowledgement when they annoucne they are passing. I like when they say something like "bike line passing - 5 riders total". That's helpful and I get the heck out of the way of the guys going 25 mph+ and in drafting position. My running buddy Scott is a pretty good biker - he did sub 5:00 for the 112 mile Beach2Battleship Ironman Relay that we won in November - but he's pretty new at biking so doesn't know all of the trail/bike/run protocols either. That picture I posted creates a false sense of what its like out there on weekend days. TONS of bikers and runners.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:47 pm

My trail tends towards pretty lonesome (especially early in the day, when I am more likely to be on it), which I think contributes to startling the unsuspecting pedestrian when I approach from the rear.

And since its not paved (stone dust, and just plain dirt or gravel in spots, and broken up in places) does not lend itself to multiple bikes going 25+. I'm on a hybrid and although I've tried it on a road bike, I'm not planning on doing that again.

Funny thing, the trail just looks a lot different when I'm on the bike compared to when I'm on foot. Hard to describe but very noticeable.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:14 am

A nice 12.6 miles on the bike this morning. A bit less hilly than my average bike ride, but I threw in a good one near the end for good measure. Felt good. Weather broke overnight, so much more pleasant here today.

Came across a flock of wild turkeys (not an uncommon sight here) - and I think there were 14 of them. These were big birds (none of the little young ones in this batch), and I had to wonder where they hang out at night. Plenty of woods here, but that's a lot of poundage! I was a little worried they'd run out in the road and I'd have an "encounter" (they seem pretty dumb that way, at least from what I've seen running or driving), but they stuck to the grass and brush they were foraging through.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:52 am

Regarding the trail/path - is it primarily a bike corridor? For example, a few of the ones at home are called "----- Bike Path." In which case, I run on the LEFT side, so I can see the oncoming bikes, and move to the far left (shoulder) of the trail when a cyclist is coming. If it's more of a runner/walker path, then I think Chris has the right idea.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:15 am

Mine is a linear state park (the old railroad right of way) designated as a "multi-use trail", and walkers, runners, bicyclists and horseback riders are all welcome/encouraged. Just nothing motorized. Saw a guy walking his goat up there once! Also, not paved, so not as likely to have high speed bike traffic, though people do get going pretty good where the surface is nicely packed.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Wow, the day got away from me. It started at 6 a.m. with a really nice 6 mile run. I really am feeling much more like a runner again, and a lot less like an "injured runner"!

Now, if I can just keep it that way...
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:08 pm

@Michael Enright wrote:I really am feeling much more like a runner again, and a lot less like an "injured runner"...
That is great! I'm right there with you!

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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:34 am

Thanks! Now if I can just keep my long run distance goal for the weekend within reason, and not become guilty of irrational exuberance...
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Alex Kubacki on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:53 am

That's great that you're feeling it again on the runs. Some good biking in there is definately helping.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Seth Harrison on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:03 am

@Michael Enright wrote:Wow, the day got away from me. It started at 6 a.m. with a really nice 6 mile run. I really am feeling much more like a runner again, and a lot less like an "injured runner"!

Now, if I can just keep it that way...

+1! I hope you can keep it that way also.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:15 am

Thanks Seth.

I'm superstitious, and tend to refrain from declaring myself healed, but this morning still feels pretty good. There is still some pain there, but it is of the type that I can completely deal with, and is improving.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Nothing like a hot and humid 14 miler to bring me back to earth!

It was hotter than I expected when I started this run (about 9:30 a.m.), but I'm not sure of the temp. I decided to take it really easy and again use the HR monitor. This time, I never even checked my pace, feeling it was irrelevant - I just ran by the HR. I had to keep slowing it down to keep it in check.

Glad I did. I finished completely exhausted, and I doubt I would have finished had I gone any faster earlier in the run.

I think this is my slowest pace ever for this distance. That's ok, it was hot, and I usually run my long runs too fast anyway. Plus, this was my first push into the teens since early March.

I was completely drenched. I paid careful attention to hydration, and its a good thing I did.

I drank about 10 oz of water just as I was about to start. After the first six miles, I stopped long enough to down about half a liter of water. I grabbed another half liter to take with me, because I wasn't going to see any potable water in the next 8 miles. Wow, am I glad I did that. I slammed most of that down at the turning point (so with 4 miles left), saving a couple of oz. to drink with two miles left. Despite all the water, I was feeling really dehydrated for the last couple of miles. I get this thing where my ears seem blocked up, and its a sure sign of dehydration, and that was happening big time. Anyway, I just kept it slow (nonetheless, my heart rate was drifting up at this point - don't think I could have run slow enough to keep it as low as I wanted) and finished up. Had a few more oz. of water left at the car and chugged those down and stretched out.

When I got home, before I did anything else, I weighed myself, and I was down 5 lbs from this morning, despite breakfast and the additional water. I knew I would be down, but I was surprised it was that much. I actually got off and weighed myself again just to check it.

And now I'm just plain gassed. Had a lot of yard work I was planning on doing, and some other errands, but can't gather the energy to start! Might go see Harry Potter with my wife and the youngest. A cool, dark place with a bottomless cup of diet coke sounds about right at this point!
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:42 pm

It took me a while to recover last night, but Harry Potter, in a cold, dark theater with comfy seats and a big frosty beverage were just what the doctor ordered! Felt much better after.

Got a bit of a late start this morning, due to some obligations in church, but then was out at about 10:30 for a long easy bike ride. I duplicated my ride from a couple of weeks ago, which was 32 miles, with 21 of that on the rail trail. This was a real nice ride. Its a little tough getting over there on the road (about 5.5 miles of hills, with a net "up" in that direction), but relatively flat once I get there, and I enjoy the lack of motorized vehicles to contend with for most of the 21 mile stretch on the trail.

I got to use my new bell! What a treat! I feel like I'm 7 and I got my first bike bell! Worked great - I would just ding it a good distance behind the people I was approaching, then sing out "on your left" nicely as I got closer. That was real good. Even so, I came across three women walking abreast and chatting, and I was already going slow, rang the bell and did my call out, and even with all of that, they acted like they were being chased by a wild animal. The one on the right headed for the left side of the path. The one on the left headed for the right side of the path. The middle one went right, I think. It was hysterical. Fortunately, all had a good laugh and I was on my way.

Then home to mow the lawn, do some light yardwork and attempt to patch the roof. We'll see if that works.

Exciting World Cup! I gotta go and watch the overtime....
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:46 pm

Smart move with the HR monitor on the hot run. No need to push the pace when conditions are that bad.

And the bell still cracks me up. I want to get one on my road bike. But like, one of the honky-clown ones.
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:18 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Smart move with the HR monitor on the hot run. No need to push the pace when conditions are that bad.

And the bell still cracks me up. I want to get one on my road bike. But like, one of the honky-clown ones.

I thought about that, but figured it would take up too much space on my handlebars! Harder to work, too...
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:19 am

Real swampy run at 6 a.m., with oppressive dewpoints. Did another nice 6 miler, and was completely drenched. It always surprises me when I'm down a couple of pounds on a run of that distance.

I notice that my pace on these shorter runs is creeping up while I run based on perceived exertion. The pace is about appropriate, so a good sign overall.

PF seems to be in check for the moment.

Hope this weather cools down, but doesn't look like any relief until maybe a little over the weekend...
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Kenny B. on Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:11 am

There are times to run just on perceived effort, there are times when to run by HR, and there are times to let it all out to hit your splits regardless.

Using these at the opportune time is what makes a good runner a smart runner and that leads to becoming a better runner.

Nice job on the listening to your body and not worrying about pace. The heat is on!
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:33 am

@Kenny B. wrote: The heat is on!

The heat is really supposed to be "on" tomorrow and Friday 'round these parts (and yours, Kenny)! Not looking forward to that...

In the meantime, it was a relatively nice morning here (all things, including humidity, being relative) for an early 12.6 mile bike ride. That certainly breaks up the running days nicely. Still feeling like that's a great start to the day. Nothing too exciting on the ride this morning.

The excitement was at about 10:45 last night. I was just falling asleep, when there was this horrendous crashing noise that shook the house. Seemed like the roof fell off or something. Ran downstairs (everyone in the house was running in some direction!) and discovered that a sizable portion of a tree had fallen and come down across the side of the house (right outside the window of our bedroom). There was absolutely no wind or other cause. I guess its just been waiting to fall. That tree is in between the house and the pond, and has been in questionable shape for a while. I am not surprised part of it was ready to fall - I just had no clue it would fall in our direction, or could reach that far! No major damage to the house - mostly it was the very top of the tree that brushed the house. It wrecked the gutter, took the top off the radon remediation pipe that runs up that side, tore the siding in a couple of places, took out the kitchen window and took out the railing on the small deck that comes off that side of the house. Ugh. Lots of clean up to follow...

Isn't home ownership a great thing?!
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Michael Enright on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:17 am

Did my early bird six miles this morning.

Was warm, but didn't seem hot.

But was it ever humid! Oppressive due point, again.

When I was done, I sat down for a while at our kitchen table (all water-impervious surfaces involved!). I literally left puddles under the table that I had to wipe up. Haven't been that wet without jumping in a pool or shower in a while.

The run felt pretty good, though. I took it easy. My left hamstring was a little tight/sore throughout the run, but OK.

My son cleared away enough of the fallen tree while I was at work yesterday (a 19 year old will do almost anything for money!) so that the insurance company's guy could come out and inspect the damage today. The tree guy is coming Saturday to remove it and the parts still standing.

About a year ago we had a terrible storm and a "microburst" that took down a bunch of trees on our property and really created a mess. Fortunately, damage to the house from that one was minimal (not even enough for an insurance claim).

But why do I now feel like we are being attacked by our trees?!

Maybe Ents are involved...
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Re: Crossing My Training And Crossing My Fingers

Post  Dave P on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:15 pm

Hey Mike! I'm sure glad the damage to your house wasn't more. I hope they're quick with the repairs. Keep up the running.
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