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New York State of Mind

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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Alex Kubacki on Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:54 am

Have a great race Jim. Enjoy the day.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Mark B on Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:00 pm

I was tracking you at NYC this morning, Jim, and I gotta say: you ran some impressively consistent splits! Great job!

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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:02 pm

I haven't looked yet, but that means he took my advice and didn't blow it out on 1st Ave!
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:13 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I haven't looked yet, but that means he took my advice and didn't blow it out on 1st Ave!
Well, I sort of did.  My fastest 5K split was 25k to 30k, but I was in a good rhythm and was okay with it.  The advice was tremendously helpful and that, along with the pace band I bought off of mymarathonpace.com were the ingredients needed for the recipe to a nearly perfect race.  I was gassed coming through Central Park but hung on just enough to hit the goal.  I really wasn't terribly confident going into the race I'd be able to get close to 3:25 and almost just decided to go for 3:30 from the start.  I'm very glad I went for it, which shouldn't really be surprising because that's kind of my personality.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Michael Enright on Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:41 pm

Good job sticking with it!
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  ounce on Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:28 pm

Gratz, Jim!  I'm sure you're very pleased.

How did the pace band help?
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:08 pm

@Mark B wrote:I was tracking you at NYC this morning, Jim, and I gotta say: you ran some impressively consistent splits! Great job!

So, after further review, I think the way the splits were displayed may have led you astray.  Just for the quick and dirty analysis, here's the 5K splits:

5K        24:43
10K      24:10
15K      24:04
20K      23:54
25K      24:05
30K      23:32
35K      24:16
40K      25:15
Finish   10:54

What happened on the runner tracking page was they were displaying the overall average pace for the entire race, which made it look like every mile was within a second or two of each other.  I'll go into more detail in a race report, but that was without question the toughest finish to a marathon I've ever done and while I built in a fade to my pacing strategy, it was a much bigger fade than I intended.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:29 pm

Actually Jim those splits look pretty good considering the course and the wind!  Great job again.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:40 pm

Well, this seems about right:

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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Mark B on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:04 am

What awesome suffering! No doubt you were feeling it.

And though the splits didn't turn out to be Mello-esque in their regularity, they're still quite good. Yeah, you slowed by about 20 sec/mi in those last three miles, but that's also when you hit those hills going into Central Park. That'll slow you down a bit.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:18 am

Isn't that how we all feel??  My photos from Indy are really bad.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:28 pm

@ounce wrote:Gratz, Jim!  I'm sure you're very pleased.

How did the pace band help?
It was customized based on the course for NYC.  The pace per mile varied quite a bit, going from as fast as 7:30 or so all the way up to 8:42 (for a goal of 3:25, or 7:49 pace).  It was just a really good guide on where to push a little and where to relax.  I'd highly recommend getting one off the site if there's one for a specific marathon you're running.  After using it, I'd pay twice the $5.75 I did and it would still be a bargain.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  ounce on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:16 pm

@mul21 wrote:
@ounce wrote:Gratz, Jim!  I'm sure you're very pleased.

How did the pace band help?
It was customized based on the course for NYC.  The pace per mile varied quite a bit, going from as fast as 7:30 or so all the way up to 8:42 (for a goal of 3:25, or 7:49 pace).  It was just a really good guide on where to push a little and where to relax.  I'd highly recommend getting one off the site if there's one for a specific marathon you're running.  After using it, I'd pay twice the $5.75 I did and it would still be a bargain.
Much obliged.  There's only 1 for a Texas marathon and it's the Cowtown in Fort Worth.  That would be a good use of $5.75 because that course is certainly rolling in a lot of places.  I guess the one in Houston is too flat to sell.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Dave-O on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:53 pm

Congrats Jim. I'm looking forward to the full report.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Penelope on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:41 pm

Nice job on the race! Have to agree about the pic, but if you looked like you were just having a cake-walk, you'd wonder if you pushed yourself hard enough, right? That expression on your face just shows you're giving it all.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:17 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Actually Jim those splits look pretty good considering the course and the wind!  Great job again.
No doubting I was very happy with them.  The wind wasn't all that bad except on the bridges I didn't think and I was mostly able to tuck behind people if it picked up too much.

@Mark B wrote:What awesome suffering! No doubt you were feeling it.

And though the splits didn't turn out to be Mello-esque in their regularity, they're still quite good. Yeah, you slowed by about 20 sec/mi in those last three miles, but that's also when you hit those hills going into Central Park. That'll slow you down a bit.
Um, yeah, an 8:24 split for mile 24 kind of killed my consistency.  There's a ridiculously long uphill right before you actually enter the park and it almost did me in.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Isn't that how we all feel??  My photos from Indy are really bad.
Ha! Well, I thought the look on my face in this particular shot really captured how I was feeling!

@Dave-O wrote:Congrats Jim. I'm looking forward to the full report.
Thanks! I'm still benefiting from all those grueling miles you put me through.  The stuff I do to myself now seems easy!

@Penelope wrote:Nice job on the race! Have to agree about the pic, but if you looked like you were just having a cake-walk, you'd wonder if you pushed yourself hard enough, right? That expression on your face just shows you're giving it all.
True, and I have no doubt that I left very little, if any time out on the course.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  nkrichards on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:04 pm

Love the photo and would love to have those splits!

Great job!
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:12 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Love the photo and would love to have those splits!

Great job!
Thanks!
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:30 pm

Well, the report is posted.  Now for some reflection on this training cycle.

Over the winter, I really need to dedicate myself to doing some core work and getting stronger in the non-running muscles.  I really feel like I didn't have a very good training cycle overall.  I had one good stretch of 4 weeks where I got in some really consistent mileage at 50+ per week, but other than that, the long runs and tempo runs were very sporadic and my mileage was generally not nearly as high as I'd like.  Part of that was because I started the cycle with a decent amount of biking mixed in, with the idea that it would keep me away from some of the pounding and keep me healthier.  A lot of it was due to life and work getting in the way and hopefully some of that stuff will settle down in the near future.

I really wonder what I'm capable of at this point, because with a less than ideal training cycle, being about 10-15 pounds heavier than I'd like, and an inability to stay healthy enough to put in big mileage, I managed a time within 8 minutes of my PR on a course much tougher than the one I PRed on.  It's still a bit depressing that I likely have 16+ minutes to shave off to get a BQ that actually gets me into the race.  Who knows, maybe I need a winter of weight work and less miles and then another run through the Dave-O school of running!
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Nick Morris on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:57 am

@mul21 wrote:Well, the report is posted.  Now for some reflection on this training cycle.

Over the winter, I really need to dedicate myself to doing some core work and getting stronger in the non-running muscles.  I really feel like I didn't have a very good training cycle overall.  I had one good stretch of 4 weeks where I got in some really consistent mileage at 50+ per week, but other than that, the long runs and tempo runs were very sporadic and my mileage was generally not nearly as high as I'd like.  Part of that was because I started the cycle with a decent amount of biking mixed in, with the idea that it would keep me away from some of the pounding and keep me healthier.  A lot of it was due to life and work getting in the way and hopefully some of that stuff will settle down in the near future.

I really wonder what I'm capable of at this point, because with a less than ideal training cycle, being about 10-15 pounds heavier than I'd like, and an inability to stay healthy enough to put in big mileage, I managed a time within 8 minutes of my PR on a course much tougher than the one I PRed on.  It's still a bit depressing that I likely have 16+ minutes to shave off to get a BQ that actually gets me into the race.  Who knows, maybe I need a winter of weight work and less miles and then another run through the Dave-O school of running!
Actually Jim, I think training cycle goes to show you that you don't need to go out and run 70-80 miles consistently to run a fast race.  You made it to the start line healthy and in pretty decent shape.  I bet if you were at the weight that you wanted to race at, you would have been 5-10 minutes faster.  I think what you need is a happy balance between this training cycle and a Dave-O type training cycle.  If you recall, you couldn't stay healthy during his training cycle.  In my opinion that was because you were incorporating too much speed work and miles for what your body could handle.  So like I said, I think a good balance somewhere in between may be the right recipe.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:05 am

I think Nick is right, but believe me the core and weight work do make a difference.  Adding it in to the degree that I did really helped me through my last training cycle.  I only had two mileage weeks in the mid-50s and I'd like to get 4-5 on the way to Boston, but I, too, arrived at the starting line relatively unscathed.  I did hit my ideal weight which I'm sure helped.  I knew that my fitness for the long haul (endurance stamina) wasn't quite there which is why I targeted the 3:50 at the beginning of October.  I got the long runs in and they felt good, but I still felt like I wasn't quite there.

It will come back, just be patient and try to find the right balance.  I think you definitely have that BQ in you and not even if the stars align perfectly and there is a solar eclipse Laughing .
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  ounce on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:14 pm

I'll second that core work and weights will help.  I would recommend finding a good CrossFit box (they call the locations a 'box'), because the free weights works both the big and little muscle groups.  The little muscle groups will help your quads and hamstrings shoulder more of the weight, rather than just the quads and hammies.  But wait a month because I re-started CrossFit after only 2 weeks and my body was not ready for it.

Yoga will help stabilize muscles.  Leg lifts helps the lower core and step ups helps the gluteus medius (both which keeps you balanced).  I just worked on leg lifts over the summer and so I'm out of balance.

Losing 10 pounds equates to 9 faster minutes.  A doctor told me, after I finished 2012 Houston, that for every 10 pounds lost then you get 9 minutes faster.  I had lost 30 pounds and, by golly, I ran 27 minutes faster.  No joke.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  Dave-O on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:23 pm

I'm being painted as quite the masochist, huh? Twisted Evil
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  mul21 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:45 pm

@Dave-O wrote:I'm being painted as quite the masochist, huh? Twisted Evil
No way, at least not in my eyes.  Just an outside push to challenge myself a bit more than I would have on my own.  And there's always the help that outside voice saying, "Yeah, you can do that" provides that sometimes gets you out the door or to finish that last repeat in a workout.  I'm still benefiting from the two cycles I followed your tutelage because of the huge fitness gains I made during that time and the ability to push myself a bit more than I would.
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Re: New York State of Mind

Post  nkrichards on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:18 am

I know this has already been said but I can't agree more...make the core/strength work part or your routine.  It sounds like you are right where I was last fall when I decided I needed to figure out something different if I was going to improve.  I think the core/strength work was the key.  Even with lower mileage than most people recommend I finally managed to pull off a BQ race.

Because of my lower mileage I do a fair bit of swimming and biking.  It works well for me.
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