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Paying The Iron Price

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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:07 am

My plan didn't work well today to get in my run.  Today is Cassidy's first day of 7th grade and so I planned to drop her at the school bus stop at the end of our road at 7:10 and get in a quick run before showing up a bit late but OK time at the office.  Bus didn't come until 7:30 or so - first day details to work out, I guess - and my window to run was gone.   Fantasy football draft tonight so unless I don't want to start until 10pm or so (ugh) that's out.  Now I have to try and figure out if there's an hour I can sneak in during the day.   Its not all that appealing to me to run from 6:00-7:00 and then take her to the bus and then shower up etc. but that might have to become the default plan.  I can handle starting running at 6:30/7:00.   Starting at 6:00 or earlier.....not for me.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Mark B on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:42 am

Nothing like the start of school to mess with a schedule. Don't knock the crazy early runs, though. There is something nice about running at 5 a.m. when the rest of the world is still in bed.

Good luck with seventh grade! My seventh grader starts tomorrow. Hope Cassidy is looking forward to it.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:57 am

@Mark B wrote:Nothing like the start of school to mess with a schedule. Don't knock the crazy early runs, though. There is something nice about running at 5 a.m. when the rest of the world is still in bed.

Good luck with seventh grade! My seventh grader starts tomorrow. Hope Cassidy is looking forward to it.
+1...It sucks getting up really early during the week, but it makes you feel like you've accomplished so much before the rest of the world starts to stir.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Jerry on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:14 am

Just so you know, lazy Jerry's alarm is set 4:00am weekday.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  mul21 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:20 am

Yeah, but that's late afternoon in China!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:38 am

@mul21 wrote:Yeah, but that's late afternoon in China!
HAHAHAHA!!!!lol! lol! lol!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:36 pm

Just so you know, the future weather is looking very good right now for Erie.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:41 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Just so you know, the future weather is looking very good right now for Erie.
I refuse to look yet but that made me smile.  We need to connect about what the plans are to meet up while there.  You coming in Saturday and up for dinner? 

This week has been so so.  I did end up having an unscheduled day off Tuesday but that was probably a good thing.  Wednesday I did around 8 on the mill and fiddled with 800s.   Did a few at 6:45 and then ramped on down with the last one at 6:00.  Not sure if I did 8 total or 9.  Very unstructured in terms of what I was doing in between (walk/jog/regular running) and widely varying time off between the "on" part of 30 seconds or so to a pretty long break.  I always feel better about running after doing some faster stuff and Wednesday was no exception on that.  Pace even on down to 6:00 felt good.  Wish I felt that good running 8:30 on long runs!  THAT'S what's worrying me!

This weekend, I'm signed up for a half marathon.  With Erie a week away, I'm not racing it.  Plan to do some easy few miles and then shoot for 7:30 for the marathon so roughly 15 overall.   I've done this race at least 3-4 other times so know it well.  Tricky with some big hills up and down.  And it does look like hot and humid again.   If I can do it at that pace and never feel like its anything but grooving along, I'll be pleased going into Erie.  If that feels anything like "racing", uh oh.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:58 pm

Yes, I figure that since the race is much bigger this year than in previous years, I had better get my race packet the day before.  Normally, I would just drive in and pick it up in the morning, but I guess not this year.  I don't know downtown Erie at all, as I generally just come to visit Presque Isle or shop on Peach St.  There are several chain type restaurants on Peach St which might be a good place to meet as it is easy for both of us, but I'll be honest that I can't think if there is an Italian one (I bet there is an Olvie Garden or Carrabba's).  Either way, I will plan on driving over on Saturday night, but be aware that I am 45-50 min away, so I won't be hanging out late (LOL).  

Looking at the map is odd to me as the half in July starts at roughly mile 2.8, does the turnaround and then the loop. The minor hill is at mile 10 (if I am reading this right) with a minor downhill shortly thereafter.  Something to look forward to.  I wonder which course will be faster?
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:13 pm

How about:

Alto Cucina at 3531 West Lake Road
http://www.altocucina.com/

or

Mi Scuzi at 27th & Myrtle Street
http://www.miscuzirestaurant.com/

 or

Olive Garden at 5945 Peach St
http://www.olivegarden.com/
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:12 pm

Any of those work, Chris.  I know Peach St., and it is closest to the highway, but I'd really rather eat at a local place than a chain. Just pick the one that sounds the best to you, make an early reservation, and I'll see you there (or even at packet pick up first.).
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  mul21 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:43 pm

I did another tempo run tonight Chris......just sayin'!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michael Enright on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:12 pm

A good Sunday for the Cutler/Marshall combo!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:54 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Any of those work, Chris.  I know Peach St., and it is closest to the highway, but I'd really rather eat at a local place than a chain. Just pick the one that sounds the best to you, make an early reservation, and I'll see you there (or even at packet pick up first.).
Of those, I like Alto Cucina the best based on my unscientific review of the menu and the quotes about the food.   Throwing Olive Garden at you was a test and you passed because I don't know what I would have done if you said "that's the place for me!" .  Ha ha.  Alto Cucina seems pretty close to the packet pickup too.  Is 6pm good?  Earlier?  I land in Pittsburgh at 1:30pm and should be heading up there pretty quickly so I'm probably in Erie by 4pm or so with just the packet pickup to do. Let me know what works best for you.

I did a half marathon on Sunday and....not so good.  Plan was 7:30s throughout.  Went through 8 right at 60:00 so fine on pace but from about 10K on, it was starting to feel like a bit too much work to be doing for what is generally an easy pace.  I don't know what's wrong with me.  So I waited until mile 9 or 10 and then took some walk breaks to cool down and relax and just jogged it in from there.  Final ended up being 8:00 pace.   Legs felt and continue to feel great.  But the effort level for a pace I should easily be able to handle feels way too high.  9 miles of 7:30s and I'm having a problem?  Uh oh!  Yes, it was very humid again which seems to be a recurring theme.  But not too hot.  Mid 70s.  I needed Sunday's run to be a big confidence builder that I can easily go knock out a marathon at a slowish pace and I most definitely did NOT get that kind of boost from it.  Oh well, maybe all of these terrible longish runs are leading to it all coming together soon?  Who knows.  I really do feel good generally.  Speed work goes well and runs of 6-8 miles are utterly routine.  But I've massively struggled on all of the longer stuff this Summer.  Don't know why. 

I am going to change my typical plan for this weekend in terms of fuel intake.  Typically, I take gels at every 5 miles in a marathon.   I've got nothing to lose and I think a change is needed so I'm going to go with a big uptick in that and maybe do them every 2.5 or 3 miles.  Not sure how I'll carry them.  Also, I think I'll start out with a handheld and try and work that for the first hour or so to get in fluids.  I'm reaching for things to change up at this point.

For fantasy football (FIVE TEAMS!!!  That's just nuts) it looks like I'll go 3-2 but one of the games hinges on what happens tonight in Skins v Philly (GO SKINS!!).  Calvin Johnson and Marshawn Lynch let me down.  As Mike said, the Cutler/Marshall combo was sweet.  I also have Victor Cruz in one league and he turned a loss into a win with 3 TDs in last night's game.  The only player I have on more than 2 of my 5 teams?   Justin Tucker, Ravens Kicker, is on 3 of my teams.  Weird.  I went 0-5 on having AP on any of them.  And neither Manning is on any of my 5 teams.

Tonight, I'm so excited to see how RGIII looks.  Excitement around here for the Skins season is crazy high!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  mul21 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:19 am

I wouldn't be too concerned about the rough days on long runs yet if you've had consistently humid weather.  It had been killing me lately and I hadn't had a good long run in 6 weeks until this last Saturday when temps were relatively cool and the humidity was way down.  If you struggle on a good weather day, then you may have something to worry about, but until then, just keep plugging away.  Have you thrown in any 12 or 14 milers during the week yet?  That has always seemed to be where I get my greatest benefit from stretching out that mid week run and backing it up with another longish one on the weekend.

I had the unfortunate lack of foresight to start Joique Bell and Brandon Myers this weekend and that cost me a win because Eric Decker and Stevan Ridley did crap, plus I was up against Aaron Rodgers and Reggie Bush.  Things didn't go my way this weekend at all.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Chris - 6 pm works for me as I have a 45 min drive.  I'm going to head to the packet pickup and try to get there around 5 pm, so I'll probably see you there first. I'll also have to leave quite early on Sunday to get there by 5:45!

I'm guessing that Sunday was pretty humid and I'd blame that for what feels less than stellar to you.  I have been there back and forth all summer, and I have had many a race like that in the past.  Good to get it over with this week and not next.  It is supposed to be 90F here tomorrow after 69F here today.  No worries though as the cold front comes in on Thursday/Friday with some rain, so the weekend should be good.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:09 am

Erie didn't work as getting me a last second BQ.  Great event and had fun seeing Michele Keane for dinner the night before and after the race.  She ROCKED the half with a good run and won a really cool looking AG award.

I needed a 3:25 (7:49 pace) to get a BQ.  I didn't get it.

Felt fantastic through 21 and then just completely blew apart and had to walk/jog it in.   Here's the story from the official mats:

10K 46:34 (7:30 pace).   Felt completely at ease, recovery run intensity.
Half 1:39:49 (7:37 pace).  Exactly on target.  I figured I'd run a 1:40 half and then target a finish in the 3:20-3:25 range.  Again, felt super strong.
20M 2:33:53 (7:41 pace).  Its only looking back that I see any cracks and slowdown.  Through 20, I felt super good and only needed a pretty slowish final 10K to get my BQ.  I was pleasantly surprised feeling that good at 20 miles.

Full 3:37:04 !!!!! Yeah, I took well over an hour to finish the last 10k.  It was brutal.  Walking, jogging, hitting the portajohns a few times.  Just ugly. 

Ugh.  Its hard for me to believe I recently logged over 10 marathon finishes between 3:09 and 3:21 and have 3 halfs under 6:30 pace but couldn't easily do this simple sub 3:25 assignment.  But the stark reality is that I'm just nowhere close to where I was in 2012 and before and I clearly have a long way to go on the path back.  My endurance level just sucks.  I had a whole series of awful long runs this Summer while starting to feel pretty good doing the shorter/faster stuff.  And even though it was much cooler up in Erie than I've been used to, the final few miles felt just as bad as some of my training runs this Summer.  Ugh.

So, where to from here?  Don't know.  I'd like to get my fitness back to old levels and I think the way to do it is to just keep at it with particular focus on trying to up my long run endurance.  I do think I need to go back to the doc and just make sure there's not something more going on because I have just felt so "off" for about 4 months now and even at relatively easy paces, I'm getting torched energy wise after 2+ hours which doesn't seem right.   This almost makes things MORE frustrating but, I have NO soreness.  None.  I could easily run today although I think I won't.  Its not legs or cramps or anything like that shutting me down.  Its like my effort level goes from a 4 out of 10 to a 10 out of 10 with no warning whatsoever.  At mile 21 yesterday I'm doing 7:45 pace and chatting away with a guy and then by Mile 22, I'm only able to run about 50 yards at a time without a walk break.  My heart rate spikes wildly, my breathing is ragged, my ears feel like I'm underwater and its slow down and walk or else.  It all just generally sucks and its like an additional gotcha that my legs don't even feel like I did anything the day after a marathon.  Geesh.   Believe me, just being done with the stupid 26.2 mile distance is very much one of the "what next?" options! 

My buddy Scott did get his BQ by 30 seconds and now will have to see if that's good enough this year to get in with all of the big interest in running Boston 2014.  He did a great job of gutting out a sprint finish when he saw the clock was already in his final minute of qualifying time.  Like I said up above, Michele nailed her half and more importantly (to me, at least!) had cold beer for us post-race!! 

Erie is a GREAT marathon.  Cool small race vibe, easy course, simple logistics, tons of awesome volunteers.  I've done a bunch of the big city and a bunch of the small town marathons and in the small town category, I think this is my new favorite.  Highly recommended.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:54 am

Sorry to hear you didn't get your BQ. It doesn't sound like just an endurance issue. Do you drink a lot of caffeine?
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michael Enright on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:22 am

Sorry to hear that. I can relate - I've always hit the wall pretty hard, and on a couple of occassions felt that it was like someone just flipped a switch. I was doing great, and then my body had a physcial reaction to crossing the twenty mile mark on the course. Suddenly I drop my speed by over a minute a mile and have to walk some. I hope you find a way to get back on the track you want to be on and those prior times.

One thing caught my attention. You noted that your ears felt like you were underwater. That happens to me very consistently when I get dehydrated. It often is the first sign of dehydration that really registers with me. I think the fluid in the inner ear thickens up because my body is like a dried out sponge, and that impacts my hearing. Having said that, I've never heard anyone else make the link, or explain the reason it happens.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Mark B on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:42 am

Oof. That was a tough report to read, Chris. Sorry it turned out like that.

Getting yourself checked out sounds like a good idea. The heart rate spikes, sudden exhaustion and ears-underwater sensation are a little troubling.

I wonder if it would help you to focus on longer, slower runs -- yes, almost ultra style -- to build your aerobic base even more?



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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  T Miller on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:54 am

Hey Chris, so sorry to hear that you didn't get your BQ.  I know it should have been an easy thing to do and really makes you take a step back to re-evaluate.  I've been there.  It also makes me a bit nervous that I'm planning to pace a friend to that same timezone although I haven't been training for those paces.

The ear thing really ran out to me too, I have a buddy that talks about his ears feeling as though they are filled with cotton when he gets dehydrated.  Although it is a different description, it makes me wonder if you were dehydrated.

I also wonder if it's nutritional.  I've just recently gained a deeper understanding of the difference between being a carb burner and a fat burner.  I wonder if you would benefit by training your body to burn more fat so that you would have more fuel availability later on in the race.  Just a thought.  http://runblog.adamcondit.com/2013/08/running-diet-nutrition-fueling-sunny-blende/
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:37 pm

It was tough after the race, Chris as I felt so bad for you and I had a pretty good day.  I did mention dehydration with myself and how I felt, but I never thought about it as a contribution to what you experienced.  Interesting as that might be the key.  I would also get some other things checked.  Hope the trip home was uneventful and that the girls did ok - especially Scott's daughter.  See you in November.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  JohnP on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:45 am

@T Miller wrote:I also wonder if it's nutritional.  I've just recently gained a deeper understanding of the difference between being a carb burner and a fat burner.  I wonder if you would benefit by training your body to burn more fat so that you would have more fuel availability later on in the race.  Just a thought.  http://runblog.adamcondit.com/2013/08/running-diet-nutrition-fueling-sunny-blende/
http://eat4fitness.com/articles/Metabolic_Efficiency_Training.pdf

Not certain but this seems like the text version of the video Tim posted.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:59 pm

Pretty interesting article and now I want to get ME tested at some place locally.  How would I find out where they do that?  Also does make me think some diet changes are probably needed if I'm going to try and head towards a better marathon time.  My 80-90% carb diet doesn't seem to be doing the trick! I'll have to think that over while eating some pizza.  By the way, next step for me in running is a 10K.  Why the heck not?  I think I'm in good shape but obviously not great shape and definitely not ideal marathon shape.  But I'm going to do some speedy stuff over the next couple of weeks as a changeup and then pop into a 10K and see how that goes.  Been too long since I hit a track (not once in 2013) so I'll do a few workouts on the oval to spice things up.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  mul21 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:21 pm

@JohnP wrote:
@T Miller wrote:I also wonder if it's nutritional.  I've just recently gained a deeper understanding of the difference between being a carb burner and a fat burner.  I wonder if you would benefit by training your body to burn more fat so that you would have more fuel availability later on in the race.  Just a thought.  http://runblog.adamcondit.com/2013/08/running-diet-nutrition-fueling-sunny-blende/
http://eat4fitness.com/articles/Metabolic_Efficiency_Training.pdf

Not certain but this seems like the text version of the video Tim posted.
Look out Chris, this appears to be an under the radar attempt to get you to run at ......gasp...... low HR intensities!  Mark has infected everyone! Shots
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