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Paying The Iron Price

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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Mark B on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:53 am

Nice work, Chris! Nothing like an impromptu bit of speedy running to lift the spirits. Keep at it. You'll get to where you want to be.

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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  mul21 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:57 am

I have to say I'm not terribly surprised by this.  I've been experiencing a similar thing lately where the speed work is a much easier day than a recovery run.  I blasted through some 1K repeats on Tuesday night and really had to grind out a 6 mile recovery run last night on a mill.  Just not any fun at all lately.  Good to see you get some motivation back!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:11 pm

mul21 wrote:I have to say I'm not terribly surprised by this.  I've been experiencing a similar thing lately where the speed work is a much easier day than a recovery run.  I blasted through some 1K repeats on Tuesday night and really had to grind out a 6 mile recovery run last night on a mill.  Just not any fun at all lately.  Good to see you get some motivation back!

 Yeah, weird stuff isn't it?  Today was like you said and back to the grind.  7 miles at 8:34 pace on the mill downstairs.  Nothing good or bad about the run.  Just a run. 

I am going up to indoor soccer tonight.  No, I'm not actually going to play in the game yet.   To eliminate any chance of that, I won't even bring my shin guards.  But I am going to go up there and warm up fully with the guys for 20-30 minutes, stay and watch/coach the game and go out for beers afterwards.   I think part of my blahs about running has been missing soccer and being on the team and seeing my brother and buddies every Thursday.  I've only been up to watch twice since the surgery February and of course haven't played.  We'll see how the knee feels moving around out there tonight but I'm thinking of returning to playing in September.  Yes, this hurts my running and yes every injury I've had in the past 4 years is soccer related.  But playing soccer and being on this team is a big part of what I've done for a long time (soccer = all my life; this team = over 10 years) and I'm just going to accept the risks and roll the dice assuming I seem healthy and ready to return to playing soon.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Nick Morris on Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:30 pm

Chris M wrote:Yes, this hurts my running and yes every injury I've had in the past 4 years is soccer related.  But playing soccer and being on this team is a big part of what I've done for a long time (soccer = all my life; this team = over 10 years) and I'm just going to accept the risks and roll the dice assuming I seem healthy and ready to return to playing soon.

I hear ya Chris.  I still play softball and volleyball...It's something that you can't get out of your blood.  I am not sure what I would do if I wasn't playing.  You gotta do what makes YOU happy!!

Btw...Nice job on the 800s Smile
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 pm

Friday - Met up with my friend Jason to run 7 miles outside on the W&OD Trail.  He's had much more major injury issues than I have and is further back on the comeback trail.   This was his "long" run at 7 miles and we kept it at 8:30.  Felt like walking to me which I guess is a sign of things coming along.  It was 86 but not as humid as it has been recently so didn't feel too bad. 

Going to soccer last night was fun.  I did warm up and take a bunch of shots and moved around passing the ball etc.   I was sooo nervous doing any kind of lateral movement and I was probably overly cautious about it.  Felt fine and no soreness today so right now I think its mentally tough to allow myself to let loose a little and kick a ball normally or cut hard but it seems like I'm well on the way to being back to that by September.  I'll go up just like I did last night 3-4 more times before actually playing in a game.  They won 2-0 last night and looked good doing it.  Really good teamwork and better passing combinations than I remember seeing from them recently.  They don't need me at all out there but I still want to re-join.  Ha ha.   Going out for beers afterwards was great too but of course that meant not getting home until 2:15am.  Ugh. That alarm clock wakeup hurt today.

This weekend Scott and his family are staying with us.  They will then leave their daughter Gillian with us to stay for Cassidy for all of the upcoming week and they will return to Pittsburgh.  So, Scott and I will run both Saturday and Sunday. Plan is to take Gillian and my dog Juliet with us for a trail run along the Potomac River Saturday morning and then Sunday Scott and I will run 16 in the morning.  Stepback from last week's 20.  Man, I need a solid long run.  Last 3 have been pretty cruddy.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Schuey on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Common Chris what do you mean you don't have this running thing figured out? It's pretty simple eat, sleep, run and repeat!! Haha

I will have to admit that the best way sometimes to get out of a running funk is by doing some faster running. So, the Fartlek/ 1/2's you did the other day should help with that. Although the reason you felt the way you did during your recovery run is that your body is still getting back into shape. Like I have said fitness goes at it's own pace as does recovering. 

So, even though you felt great on those 1/2's and you picked-up the pace which is good it is going to take your body a little more time to recovery from that type of effort because it isn't quit use to it. Were as when you were in great running fitness and your body was using to hammering out hard runs you would be able to bounce back from those runs much more quicker. Again all this will return as you continue to train and continue to be consistent with your training. Trust me brother I'm going through the same thing right now!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:57 pm

Saturday - took Juliet with us for a 7 mile run on the single track trails along the Potomac River.  She LOVES running.  During the drive there, she jumps around in the car crying and whimpering basically saying "LET'S DO THIS!"   There was nobody out there early Saturday so I was able to let her off leash for the whole thing and she basically just runs on ahead, chases any geese she sees by jumping into the river, crusies way off trail searching for I don't know what and then constantly comes back to check in with us to make sure we are still plodding along the trail.  I really want to put a waterproof Garmin on her because if we are running 7, she's doing at least 10 and probably closer to double the distance.  By the end, she was completely wiped of course and the rest of the day she's super mellow.  Of course, that only lasts a day and she's back to normal hyper Juliet today.   We had 5 girls sleepover last night (still here at 1pm) and so that has Juliet bouncing off the walls as well.

Sunday - today was 16 on the W&OD.  A good long run finally.  7:50 pace.  Last two I did at 7:20 and felt normal and strong.  After 3 cruddy long runs in a row, it felt good to cruise easily through one.

 I posted my week over on Kevin's weekly thread and here it is:
M - 7 on mill
Tu - 7 on mill
W - 8 (with 8x800) on mill
Th - 7 on mill
F - 7 on W&OD rail trail
Sa - 7 at Great Falls Park (hilly single track)
Su - 16 on W&OD rail trail

52 miles

For this week coming up, what do I want to do.....hmmm....

- I'd like to up the mileage on some of the daily runs this week just to see how that goes.  So let's shoot for 27 miles for M/T/W with some combination of 8/9/10 done those days.   Thursday back off a little and do 7 easy and then do a more aggressive warmup at indoor soccer that night.  Friday maybe 8-10 total and some more 800s if I didn't throw them in for one of the M/T/W runs (and that might be better).  I think Saturday FULL DAY OFF - travelling to Pittsburgh - and then Sunday 20 miles up in Pittsburgh.

So, if I did that it would be 62-64 miles all on singles and with a full day off in there.  One workout (like 8-10 800s) and one long run (20).   Nothing too ambitious in that and should be doable if I just stay somewhat motivated.  Writing it down here in advance hopefully makes me stick to it!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:24 pm

Hope that you have entered Erie as it is filling fast.  They already have 2x the entrants for the marathon than last year.  Good work this week.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:20 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Hope that you have entered Erie as it is filling fast.  They already have 2x the entrants for the marathon than last year.  Good work this week.

 Yup, all signed up.  Its happening in mid-September.

Monday - 8 miles on mill slow.  Oops.  Had said I wanted to do 8/9/10 this week Monday-Wednesday and knew I only had time for 8 Tuesday.  Oh well.  Back to back 8s it will be.

Tuesday - hmmm.   This is why things work best when I run on the mill (where the speed is controlled by button pushing) or with a friend when I run outside.  Left to my own when running outside, I run with no thought or purpose and end up running in a too-fast "No Man's Land".  We have Cassidy's best friend Gillian staying with us all week and tonight she was meeting her running coach and his wife for a 60 minute run.  So while they ran from Vienna to the West and back, I had my chance to run the other direction towards DC and back for 60 mins.  So I figured I might have time for 8 miles (7:30 pace) and set out to do a 4 out and 4 back on the W&OD Trail.  First two miles basically at 7:30 (a few seconds over on each) and then I mindlessly was drifting to a faster pace for the next 4 or so miles and for the last 2 I definitely realized I was running quicker than planned or intended and just went with it and pushed it hard for the last 2 miles.  So, 8 miles at 7:02 pace overall.  That's good in that its nice to run that kind of pace on a run again without feeling like I was really trying to run hard (until the last 2).  I haven't run any kind of mileage at a pace like that in quite some time.  But its bad in that a pace like that is a complete dead zone of dumb training pacing for me.  Way too fast to be recovery.  Too fast to be GA.  Too slow to be a tempo or speed work.   As is typical for me, I never looked at my Garmin during the run (except towards around mile 5-6 to confirm that yup, I'm going faster than planned) and all that confirms is that I suck at pacing by feel!   Nothing too bad about a run like this but running like this every day would cook me fast and get me nowhere.  I felt fine and even good during the run.  Helped that it was in the lower to mid 70s which is at least 10 degrees cooler than its been.  But I tell other runners they should know the purpose of a training run and this particular run had no real purpose.  I'll make one up now after the fact and say it was 2 GA-level warmup, 4 around MP in the middle, and then 2 at HMP to end.  Yeah, that actually sounds like a real workout but the fact is I'm inventing it only after seeing the splits.  During the run, I just plain ran and that can get you in trouble if you do it too often.  But I'm pleased that a run like that didn't slaughter me - signs that some progress is definitely being made. 

Our house is sort of close to the Wolf Trap Preforming Arts Center.  When the wind is right and it is tonight, you can hear the concerts there although its often muffled sounding and you can't quite pick out all the words or notes.  Tonight is unusual in that you can hear it completely clearly like you were just outside the park.  Gin Blossoms.  I always kind of liked them.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:24 pm

Ok, you (and Lisa) convinced me, and I signed up to run the 10K that Sunday morning.  I think I will fly in on Friday and leave later on Sunday.  Is Dulles my closest airport??????
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:54 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, you (and Lisa) convinced me, and I signed up to run the 10K that Sunday morning.  I think I will fly in on Friday and leave later on Sunday.  Is Dulles my closest airport??????

 Yes, it is.  Maybe only 5 mins further to DC National so go with whichever one of IAD or DCA has a better flight time/cost for you.  

Wednesday was 10 miles on the mill watching Dexter and Hard Knocks.  Not a good run despite being easy and slow at 8:34 pace.  My head and heart weren't into it at the end of a long work day and with a board meeting coming up tomorrow.  Just a blah slog that I didn't enjoy.  That's ok - Tuesday was fun running fast (relatively speaking) again and so feeling eh about a longer slower run was not unexpected.  I'm just not loving this final season of Dexter which also doesn't help.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:54 pm

Thursday was 6 miles (shorter than planned) outside on the hills.  I didn't go to soccer tonight either.  11pm game and I just didn't feel like driving all the way up there just to warm up.   Watched Batman Dark Knight Rises which I've seen twice but Cassidy and Jennifer had never seen.  I like it more upon further viewing.  I had a big problem with the plot related to Bane's plan for Gotham but he makes a speech early on that explains it more and cleared up what I thought was a big flaw in the story.  Pretty much any Christopher Nolan movie is going to be good.  Inception, Memento, Presitge, Insomina and all the Batman movies.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Friday was 7 with some fartlek type pickups (really more like 0.5 "fastish" thrown in as that was a mill run)

Saturday and Sunday, we took Gillian up to Pittsburgh and stayed with her family before coming back tonight.

No run Saturday and all day walking around at the Kennywood amusement park (more tiring than a long run!)

Today Scott and I did 20 miles at 8:11 pace on a rail trail near his house.  I felt unbelievably strong throughout.  I've had some stinkers as long runs this cycle but this was a walk in the park the whole way and that pace felt like walking to me today and I was never working.   Running is so hard to figure out sometimes but I'll take it.  Actually, I do know the big reason.  Lower temps (low to mid 70s) and low humidity compared to DC.  The super hot and humid weather kills me on long runs and today was downright pleasant compared to recent runs.  An easy 20 is always nice and now I'm going to do a block of 3 weeks in a row that should build on that with some bigger mileage and no days off.  All signs now point to me again being ready to load it on so away we go starting tomorrow...
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:29 pm

It can be humid on the lake even in September, so that heat and humidity in DC should serve you well when you get to Erie.  I actually ran at 9 am this morning to run in the warmer temps and humidity as it has been cool here, and 60F with 60% humidity differs tremendously from 70F with the same humidity.  

What trail did you guys run?  My only running in the Pittsburgh area was over very hilly terrain.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:31 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:It can be humid on the lake even in September, so that heat and humidity in DC should serve you well when you get to Erie.  I actually ran at 9 am this morning to run in the warmer temps and humidity as it has been cool here, and 60F with 60% humidity differs tremendously from 70F with the same humidity.  

What trail did you guys run?  My only running in the Pittsburgh area was over very hilly terrain.
 Uh oh.  I NEED cool weather for Erie!  I'm not going to be happy if its 70+ and humid!

I HIGHLY recommend this trail (The Montour Trail) for anyone running in the Pittsburgh area.  46 miles one-way and the whole thing is basically flat.  We ran mile 31 down to 21 and then back.   Crushed limestone surface and nice trees providing canopy shade the whole way.  The best part?  Bathrooms and water fountains every 2 miles or so.  The trail is basically MADE for a long run.  Very lightly used.  Couldn't believe how few people we saw out there on a Sunday morning. 

http://www.montourtrail.org/map/maps.asp
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Nick Morris on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:42 am

Looks like you are in good shape.  If it continues to be warm and humid for your 20s, I would slow the pace down to where you can finish and not blow up.  That way you are still getting in the work.  Hopefully it will be cool for your fall race.  Canada in November is looking better by the minute...
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:43 am

Chris M wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:It can be humid on the lake even in September, so that heat and humidity in DC should serve you well when you get to Erie.  I actually ran at 9 am this morning to run in the warmer temps and humidity as it has been cool here, and 60F with 60% humidity differs tremendously from 70F with the same humidity.  

What trail did you guys run?  My only running in the Pittsburgh area was over very hilly terrain.
 Uh oh.  I NEED cool weather for Erie!  I'm not going to be happy if its 70+ and humid!

I HIGHLY recommend this trail (The Montour Trail) for anyone running in the Pittsburgh area.  46 miles one-way and the whole thing is basically flat.  We ran mile 31 down to 21 and then back.   Crushed limestone surface and nice trees providing canopy shade the whole way.  The best part?  Bathrooms and water fountains every 2 miles or so.  The trail is basically MADE for a long run.  Very lightly used.  Couldn't believe how few people we saw out there on a Sunday morning. 

http://www.montourtrail.org/map/maps.asp
 I just want your mind prepared for it all!!!!!!  Remember it is your mind - not your physical ability!
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michael Enright on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:09 pm

Chris M wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:It can be humid on the lake even in September, so that heat and humidity in DC should serve you well when you get to Erie.  I actually ran at 9 am this morning to run in the warmer temps and humidity as it has been cool here, and 60F with 60% humidity differs tremendously from 70F with the same humidity.  

What trail did you guys run?  My only running in the Pittsburgh area was over very hilly terrain.
 Uh oh.  I NEED cool weather for Erie!  I'm not going to be happy if its 70+ and humid!

I HIGHLY recommend this trail (The Montour Trail) for anyone running in the Pittsburgh area.  46 miles one-way and the whole thing is basically flat.  We ran mile 31 down to 21 and then back.   Crushed limestone surface and nice trees providing canopy shade the whole way.  The best part?  Bathrooms and water fountains every 2 miles or so.  The trail is basically MADE for a long run.  Very lightly used.  Couldn't believe how few people we saw out there on a Sunday morning. 

http://www.montourtrail.org/map/maps.asp
Water and bathrooms every two miles or so!!! OMG, that sounds like paradise. Can't tell you how many times both of those would have been a godsend on my rail trail. Of course, there is always the woods, and there is always a road crossing somewhere that you might see a human being you can beg for a cold cup of water...
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Mark B on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:51 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote: I just want your mind prepared for it all!!!!!!  Remember it is your mind - not your physical ability!
You tell him, Coach Michele!

Here's a quote to back her up:

"Mind is everything: muscle--pieces of rubber. All that I am, I am because of my mind."
-Paavo Nurmi, the "Flying Finn"
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:46 pm

That low 7s 8 miler that you did is on target (maybe a little slow for a finely tuned machine such as yourself) as a tempo run (MP run) according to the Hanson's plan.  There might actually be some benefit for you in runs like that.  Awesome job on the 20!!!

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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Dave-O on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Chris M wrote:
Tuesday - hmmm.   This is why things work best when I run on the mill (where the speed is controlled by button pushing) or with a friend when I run outside.  Left to my own when running outside, I run with no thought or purpose and end up running in a too-fast "No Man's Land".  
Don't worry about this too much with where you're at in training. With the mileage low (relatively compared to your past cycles) and the workouts not over-bearing, you can let you pace drift on the general aerobic runs.  As long as you keep the effort moderate, you can start creeping towards low-7 pace every now and then.

The key is not to fall into the trap of "well I ran 7:05 pace yesterday so I can't bear to run slower than that today!"
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:12 pm

Fell behind on posting this week.  Lots going on at work.  I haven't really been "ramping it up" like I had predicted I would be.  Really more of the same although I did do 11 today.  So it was:

M- 7 easy
T - 7 easy
W - 7 with 8x800
Thu - 11

Tomorrow, Scott is in town again and we'll do 8 in the morning.  He then wants me to pace him through a 16 miler Saturday so I'll do that.  Sunday will be something like 7-8.  What's that in total?  63-64.  Ok - not jaw dropping but not bad.  I guess I have stuck to the no days off but seem overly content with just doing easy 7 milers.

Sunday we leave for the beach!  Yea!  Down at the beach, I actually join a gym for the week rather than do all my running outside.  Its OK for running down there (Outer Banks) but I shouldn't be out in the heat and sun more than I need to be and so doing most of the runs inside on a mill worked last year so I'll join the same gym for the week this year.

My plan for next week?  80 miles. 

10 miles every single day M-F
20 (likely outside) Saturday
We drive home Sunday so 10 either before we leave or after I get home.

PS - forgot to mention that the Mizunos Nick had mentioned and then I ordered arrived.  So I'll try them out for 8 miles tomorrow. 

I haven't gone close to mileage like that since early Fall 2012 so this will be an interesting test next week (assuming I stick to it and do it).

Oh, that and H-O-P every day.  That's Hot Tub-Ocean-Pool.  Gotta go in each every day.  The ocean is the tricky one.  Sometimes I get lazy and don't feel like battling the big waves, especially if there's a stormy day.  But gotta commit to the H-O-P plan for all 7 days down there.

PS - forgot to mention that the Mizuno shoes Nick had mentioned and I went and ordered finally arrived today.  I'll try them tomorrow for 8 miles and report back.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:10 am

My only comment Chris is that you should stay off the dreadmill and get out and run in the heat and humidity.  Run a bit shorter and certainly slower, but it will only help in the long run.  Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:39 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:My only comment Chris is that you should stay off the dreadmill and get out and run in the heat and humidity.  Run a bit shorter and certainly slower, but it will only help in the long run.  Just my 2 cents.
Nah, I gotta take all opportunities I can to be out of the sun.  Big time health issues with the skin and I'll be outside so much as is at the beach.  I'll likely do the 20 outside.   I do think there's a lot of value in acclimating to running in the heat and humidity outside.  I just really shouldn't be doing outside running even as much as I do (typically 2-3 times a week). 

Yesterday was one of those outside runs with Scott. We did 8 miles.  This afternoon, he wants me to pace him through 8 miles at 9:00 pace and then 8 miles at 8:00 pace (his Erie Marathon BQ target) so for Friday we did a mini version of that with 4 at 9:00 and then 4 faster.  Actually, the final 4 were more like 7:40 so I need to be a more disciplined pacer for him today on the 16 miler.  He starts edging forward and I just shrug and go with him but what I need to do is hold the correct pace and he'll get the message and drift back to me. 

Now I gotta get back to packing for the beach before the run!
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Chris M
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Re: Paying The Iron Price

Post  Chris M on Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:07 pm

Greetings from the Outer Banks. Ahhhh, so nice down here. Yesterday, did the 16 with Scott as planned. I think it was 8:55 for the first 8 with a goal of 9:00 pace so pretty good. Last 8 was 7:56 with a goal of 8:00 so good there too. I felt great the whole time but Scott struggled a bit on this one. We did it late in the day and it wasn't too bad for an August DC day (high 70s and humid) but he was pretty zapped by the end. Still, good job by him with no pace fall off at all. He just said his HR was definitely at a higher point than he wants it to be for MP running.

Then today we drove down here. Incredidbly, its our NINTH year in this house on Pine Island. We used to stay in Duck but the owners there sold their house and the new owners didn't allow dogs so we moved a little north to where we are now and we've been coming for the same week every single year since. Its my favorite week of the year. We do a lot of great vacations and see some amazing places but I really like this one where we just chill out and relax all week and don't really do much at all.

I didn't realize the tennis club where I use the treadmill closes early on Sundays so I was not able to get in there late today. So I ran outside for 6.5. Hot and boring (flat path alongside of Route 12 beach road - not much to look at) so I'm looking forward to starting my normal gym runs starting tomorrow morning. Plan remains the same which is to try and do 10 miles every morning on the mill at the gym. A 30 mile weekend at the end to make it an even 80 for the week. I think it may be harder mentally on me than phyiscally to get there. I really should be able to do it. Get that run done early and I spend the rest of the day relaxing, reading, going in the water, biking, eating, napping.....and simply not working.....what's not to like?
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