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What Comes Next

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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:40 pm

Low HR Run: 4.24 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, cold. 31 degrees. Gear: Testers, tights, T, pullover, jacket, hat, gloves. Fuel: Small snack of Grape Nuts and coffee before, nothing during.

The cold was just penetrating enough this morning (31 degrees with 94% humidity will do that) to chill my legs in the first mile, but I warmed up pretty well after a mile or so. This run was a bit of a struggle. My pace was down and my HR kept wanting to rise up. It's partly the cold, partly the testers and partly the fact that I did an hour running Monday and an hour+ of fast walking Tuesday. I think I was just fatigued. I'll do a walk with Alita later today. Nothing happening on Thanksgiving day other than driving two hours, eating and visiting, and driving home.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 132
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:57 pm

(Have you noticed that Nick hasn't posted anything to his blog, lately?  You don't think it was us, do you?)
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Dave P on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:03 pm

Here's to another 50 years trying out all those other possibilities!
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:11 pm

ounce wrote:(Have you noticed that Nick hasn't posted anything to his blog, lately?  You don't think it was us, do you?)
I hope not! He's almost as weird as we are, and I miss his wacky perspective.

Dave P wrote:Here's to another 50 years trying out all those other possibilities!
Thanks, Dave! I like how you think. Smile
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:40 pm

Adding a bit more...

Walk: 1.5 miles at an strolling pace

Weather: Sunny, mild but cooling off.

Walk in my Altras with Alec and Alita, as we get her big toe joint some more intense exercise. We walked out 15 minutes on the bike path and took a side path on natural surfaces back. It was a pleasant afternoon, so getting outdoors was nice.

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Re: What Comes Next

Post  charles.moman on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:17 am

Mark, you know me and Hokas.
The "ankle suicide" thing is one of what I consider one of the "Hoka myths".
Sure, there is more cushioning, but really - they are not stilts.
If someone is prone to ankle rolls - no matter what the shoe - then they will do the same in Hokas.
I have found the exact opposite - for me.
The wider shoe platform prevents ankle rolls for me - I very rarely have them anymore.
The width keeps me much more stable - see in this photo of my Hoka Bondi B2 and a Brooks Glycerin.
They are different sizes - the Hoka is a 12.5 and the Brooks a 12.

But everyone is different for sure.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:39 pm

charles.moman wrote:Mark, you know me and Hokas.
The "ankle suicide" thing is one of what I consider one of the "Hoka myths".
Sure, there is more cushioning, but really - they are not stilts.
If someone is prone to ankle rolls - no matter what the shoe - then they will do the same in Hokas.
I have found the exact opposite - for me.
The wider shoe platform prevents ankle rolls for me - I very rarely have them anymore.
The width keeps me much more stable - see in this photo of my Hoka Bondi B2 and a Brooks Glycerin.
They are different sizes - the Hoka is a 12.5 and the Brooks a 12.

But everyone is different for sure.
Hi, Charles! Far be it from me to question those open-minded enough to keep experimenting with different ways of running, and there are a number of highly accomplished runners out there (yourself included) for whom Hokas seem to work extremely well. So maybe they'd work well for Tim, too.

Tim does triathlons, so gearwise, he's pretty much up for anything, anyway. Wink 

I've had bad luck with high stack heights and with wide-bottomed shoes over the years, but that might be more about me and my freaky feet than the shoes themselves. For me, high stack heights have made ankle rolls much more common and damaging, especially when heel striking, and wide bottomed (and cushy) shoes tended to amplify the torque on my lower body when I failed to land perfectly centered on the shoe. But again, that might just be me.


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Re: What Comes Next

Post  charles.moman on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:20 pm

I was resisting saying something about someone's freaky feet!
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:17 pm

charles.moman wrote:I was resisting saying something about someone's freaky feet!
Hey, I'm not ashamed. It's a little bit of a miracle that I can run at all, considering. (I did name on of my blogs "Flight of the Bumblebee," after all.) 

---

The Thanksgiving drive and visit was good (when asked over dinner for what I was thankful, I said "possibilities"), but I decided to not run this morning because a burst blister these $#@*! testers gave me got more painful over the day. It's not in a spot that lends itself to a band-aid (base of the 4th and 5th toe), so I kind of need to let the skin heal up before the shoes try to tear it up again. Grr.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  dot520 on Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:37 pm

Glad I was able to get over here and read your blog from the beginning when it's just 2 pages long.  The last one had me reading 15 pages to get caught up.
I've seen Charles run in those Hoka's and he looks 'normal', but the soles of those shoes look like you'd run like a duck!
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Julie on Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:25 pm

Ouch on the blisters! Glad you had a good Thanksgiving. I've finished some marathons with such huge blisters....not fun to run with, for sure.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:01 pm

dot520 wrote:Glad I was able to get over here and read your blog from the beginning when it's just 2 pages long.  The last one had me reading 15 pages to get caught up.
I've seen Charles run in those Hoka's and he looks 'normal', but the soles of those shoes look like you'd run like a duck!
Heh. I may run like a duck even without shoes, Dot! I'd be a clumsy duck in Hokas. Charles ran in them when he and Susie paid us a visit this summer, and he seemed quite graceful in them -- though it sounded like he was running on giant, stale marshmallows. Smile

Julie wrote:Ouch on the blisters! Glad you had a good Thanksgiving. I've finished some marathons with such huge blisters....not fun to run with, for sure.
Thanks, Julie. Not all Nike uppers work well on my oddly shaped feet, and some crease in just the wrong spot and rub me raw. In these shoes, I developed and burst a blister in four miles on my last run. Sheesh! These definitely won't make my to-buy-someday list, though I'm sure they'll be great for most folks. 

(The guys in the department where they make lasts for shoes were fascinated with my feet during a scanning session a while back. They even rummaged through cabinets trying to find a shape that most closely matched my feet. Turns out, the best match they could find was for a Nike Free 5.0 v4. It was, not surprisingly, the best-fitting shoe I've had! Alas, they changed the shape of the last after that version... )


Free 5.0 v4s (I actually have a pair this color. They really are that bright.)

Is it any wonder I gravitate toward barefoot? Shoes don't like me!
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Julie on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:40 am

Maybe for you then, barefoot is best. I just can't imagine it on trails or snow.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:46 pm

Julie wrote:Maybe for you then, barefoot is best. I just can't imagine it on trails or snow.
Ultimately, I think it is probably is best. And you may find this surprising, but trails can be a lot of fun. Some of my best barefoot frolics were on dirt. Snow, of course, is a little trickier. I've done it (mostly as a stunt) and it's not that bad, provided you dress warm enough elsewhere to force your body to shunt excess body heat out your feet.

Still, there are limits. Super rocky trails are difficult and risk, and going barefoot for ultra distances is pretty much unheard of (sandals of VFFs, yes; barefoot, not so much). And I don't think anybody would be fool enough to run for hours barefoot in the snow. Frostbite can happen, as well as accidents due to loss of proprioception. As they say, numb feet are dumb feet!
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:34 pm

Low HR Run: 6.62 miles

Weather: Overcast, moist, mild. 52 degrees. Gear: Testers, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket/vest; hat. Fuel: Grape Nuts with coffee before, nothing during.

We're in the path of a "Pineapple Express" weather system right now, and it rained all night, so I was expecting to get drenched this morning. Surprise! We had a break in the rain for our entire run, so it was quite pleasant.

The rest of the run was good, too. I'd slathered my feet in BodyGlide and wore my Injinji's, so no blistering. It'd been a couple of weeks since by buddy ran last, so we took it nice and easy - so this was a true low HR workout! We even walked a few times when his knee started giving him problems. It was nice ending a run feeling I could easily do more. Smile

Walked first 5, last third of a mile or so. Average HR for entire run: 128
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  ounce on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:49 pm

I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:25 am

ounce wrote:I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
Ah, yes. The Arctic air. It should move in late Monday and bring the coldest weather since 2010. Wind chills to as low as the single digits.

Nippy!

Maybe it'll kill the ant nests around our house, finally. The lack of a good freeze has meant a bit of a population explosion.

I hope Houston gets 30s and dry. That's some great racing weather. Isn't that your race, too, or am I mistaken?
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Julie on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:02 am

I can't imagine barefoot hrs in the snow. My oldest sister convinced us to walk barefoot on rocks and snow and said it was good for our arches. I was gullible and believed everything she ever told me.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:09 am

Julie wrote:I can't imagine barefoot hrs in the snow. My oldest sister convinced us to walk barefoot on rocks and snow and said it was good for our arches. I was gullible and believed everything she ever told me.
Ah, sisters...

(Still, walking barefoot on rocks - especially freshly quarried rock chips - actually can be good for you, because it hurts to much to clomp around like normal that you learn how to walk gently! Honest!)

---

Speaking of snow, there's a slight chance we could get a rain/snow mix tonight as the "Pineapple Express" gets swept aside by the first of two big blasts of Arctic air heading this way. The temperature is already dropping -- our high was just after midnight -- and it's not expected to get that warm again for... well, actually, it's not even in the forecast to get above 36 for the rest of the week. Should be interesting.


Last edited by Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  ounce on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:15 am

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
Ah, yes. The Arctic air. It should move in late Monday and bring the coldest weather since 2010. Wind chills to as low as the single digits.

Nippy!

Maybe it'll kill the ant nests around our house, finally. The lack of a good freeze has meant a bit of a population explosion.

I hope Houston gets 30s and dry. That's some great racing weather. Isn't that your race, too, or am I mistaken?
My next race is December 15, which is the 30K. 

We rejoice when it gets below freezing because it kills the mosquitoes and if it's below freezing for a whole day or so (maybe 2 or 3), it kills off the roaches.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:17 am

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
Ah, yes. The Arctic air. It should move in late Monday and bring the coldest weather since 2010. Wind chills to as low as the single digits.

Nippy!

Maybe it'll kill the ant nests around our house, finally. The lack of a good freeze has meant a bit of a population explosion.

I hope Houston gets 30s and dry. That's some great racing weather. Isn't that your race, too, or am I mistaken?
My next race is December 15, which is the 30K. 

We rejoice when it gets below freezing because it kills the mosquitoes and if it's below freezing for a whole day or so (maybe 2 or 3), it kills off the roaches.
Well, except the roaches that move inside...

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Re: What Comes Next

Post  ounce on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:57 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
Ah, yes. The Arctic air. It should move in late Monday and bring the coldest weather since 2010. Wind chills to as low as the single digits.

Nippy!

Maybe it'll kill the ant nests around our house, finally. The lack of a good freeze has meant a bit of a population explosion.

I hope Houston gets 30s and dry. That's some great racing weather. Isn't that your race, too, or am I mistaken?
My next race is December 15, which is the 30K. 

We rejoice when it gets below freezing because it kills the mosquitoes and if it's below freezing for a whole day or so (maybe 2 or 3), it kills off the roaches.
Well, except the roaches that move inside...

We sub-let to them.
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:35 pm

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:I believe your Pineapple Express jet stream will be such that in a day or two it will suck down a whole lot of the Arctic air bottle up just east of Alaska.  We're expecting the cold air on Thursday, instead of Saturday.  And because of the Low pressure SW of Los Angeles, coupled with the Pacific jet stream, Jerry gets a possibility of a wet Dallas on Sunday, but I think it'll just be in the 30's and dry for the race.

What an interesting winter it will be.
Ah, yes. The Arctic air. It should move in late Monday and bring the coldest weather since 2010. Wind chills to as low as the single digits.

Nippy!

Maybe it'll kill the ant nests around our house, finally. The lack of a good freeze has meant a bit of a population explosion.

I hope Houston gets 30s and dry. That's some great racing weather. Isn't that your race, too, or am I mistaken?
My next race is December 15, which is the 30K. 

We rejoice when it gets below freezing because it kills the mosquitoes and if it's below freezing for a whole day or so (maybe 2 or 3), it kills off the roaches.
Well, except the roaches that move inside...

We sub-let to them.
lol! 
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  Mark B on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Low HR Run: 3.25 miles on treadmill

Weather: Indoors, 68. Gear: Testers, shorts, T. Fuel: Post breakfast, snack, drank one bottle of nuun during.

The temperature was dropping as the day progressed in advance of what they say will be a cold blast, but didn't opt for the treadmill because of the weather: my intestines were gurgling and rumbling like distant thunder, so I didn't want to have to make a mess behind somebody's prize rhododendron.

I kept the effort level easy and was surprised that the pace was quite slow. Of course, it was much warmer than usual, and this is my first time trying these testers on a treadmill. I was landing very much on my forefoot, which is good for developing better form - but it does tend to stress my body.

I didn't set a time limit, as I listened to a RadioLab podcast, but about three miles felt about right and I wrapped it up.

(Never did need to make an emergency pit stop...)

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 129
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Re: What Comes Next

Post  ounce on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Mark B wrote:my intestines were gurgling and rumbling like distant thunder, so I didn't want to have to make a mess behind somebody's prize rhododendron.
Such the thoughtful person
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