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Fracking the system

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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:58 pm

This was a CrossFit morning.  And I also received my new Forerunner 220, or the 620 on a diet, watch.

I didn't figure this workout would be especially hard.  I like doing Farmers Carry (45 lb kettlebell in each hand), as I will jog the prescribed distance, rather than walking it.  I just get through it faster and it seems to stay in my hand better.

Strength: 15 minutes of Push Jerk Skill Work
Work to a moderately heavy set of 3, which was 105 pounds.
Conditioning: For Time
100m Farmer’s Walk, 2- 45 lb kettlebells
9 Shoulder to Overhead (75 lbs) essentially, it's a push jerk (or push press)
80m Farmer’s Walk
7 Shoulder to OH
60m Farmer’s Walk
5 Shoulder to OH
40m Farmer’s Walk
3 Shoulder to OH
20m Farmer’s Walk
1 Shoulder to OH
Time 6:48

The push press will help me with that elusive first chin-up.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  nkrichards on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:48 pm

@Mark B wrote:Ooo! I've been missing a cadence conversation? I've been working on that, myself. The only tip I can offer is to shorten your stride. If it's hard to do wearing shoes, there's always another training tool (cough, cough) you can use to avoid slamming into the pavement... Wink
Don't let this go to your head Mark but when Max King came out and spent the evening working with a group of us here in Madras we talked about posture but we spent a lot of time talking about cadence and although he didn't advocate barefoot running he did video us running barefoot across the parking lot so we could compare that with the video of our run with shoes.  Quite interesting.

I would have to say that if I was going to pick out the one thing he stressed the most it would be shorten your stride.  He seemed to think that this one change would help us achieve the other changes he advocated.

Think there is any chance we'll catch Doug running barefoot in the near future? Wink
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:19 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Ooo! I've been missing a cadence conversation? I've been working on that, myself. The only tip I can offer is to shorten your stride. If it's hard to do wearing shoes, there's always another training tool (cough, cough) you can use to avoid slamming into the pavement... Wink
Don't let this go to your head Mark but when Max King came out and spent the evening working with a group of us here in Madras we talked about posture but we spent a lot of time talking about cadence and although he didn't advocate barefoot running he did video us running barefoot across the parking lot so we could compare that with the video of our run with shoes.  Quite interesting.

I would have to say that if I was going to pick out the one thing he stressed the most it would be shorten your stride.  He seemed to think that this one change would help us achieve the other changes he advocated.

Think there is any chance we'll catch Doug running barefoot in the near future? Wink

Only from the couch to the bathroom.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:00 pm

Okay, then. It's decided. We move Ounce's couch to Waco.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:10 pm

@Mark B wrote:Okay, then. It's decided. We move Ounce's couch to Waco.
CURSES!!!  Foiled again!
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:12 pm

This morning, I ran 12 miles.  I believe it's the longest that I've ran since Houston in January.  On the new 220, I set up almost what I wanted on the screens because there are so few choices on the 220 versus the 305.  But it does measure cadence without a foot pod and it's 99.5% accurate on this first run.

I wanted to run 12 because there's a possibility that I'll be running about that much in the next few weeks.  It was 59 degrees with a dewpoint of 41 with a slight wind.  I also signed up for GarminConnect, for uploading my 'activities.'

12 miles, 2:24:45, 12:03 pace, 142 avg bpm, 158 max bpm during mile 10, 162 avg spm, 1st half pace 12:09, 2nd half pace 11:57


  1. 12:23, 118 bpm, 161 spm
  2. 12:24, 135 bpm, 161 spm
  3. 12:27, 138 bpm, 162 spm
  4. 12:05, 142 bpm, 162 spm
  5. 11:52, 139 bpm, 163 spm
  6. 11:55, 143 bpm, 162 spm
  7. 11:59, 141 bpm, 162 spm
  8. 11:56, 146 bpm, 161 spm
  9. 11:48, 149 bpm, 163 spm
  10. 11:44, 149 bpm, 162 spm
  11. 11:59, 151 bpm, 164 spm
  12. 12:06, 151 bpm, 162 spm


I got into a good groove.  Then, for some reason, I increased my steps by 1 around mile 9.  My legs were going just a tad faster than the 162 chirper, so I increased it to 163.  Tuesday's run had me running 9 and 162 spm.  Today was 12 at 162 spm.  However, after the run was over and I came to work, my lower back was aching.  So, I'm sure my posture was such that I was leaning forward at the waist more than I should have. 

It's real interesting that for every little niggle that doesn't feel right or just plain hurts, that I can adjust my posture to get it right.  For some reason, my back didn't hurt during the run, but it did afterwards.  Stopping for water was also a pleasureable experience because what I was resting wasn't being used, when I was standing and drinking.  Makes me wonder if I should train as a run/walk marathoner.

Anywho, I was overall very pleased with the run.  I will now open the floor for comments.  Thanks for reading and thanks to 1L for graciously accepting my request to observe her running exploits on GarminConnect.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:02 pm

For the past 4 Fridays, CrossFit has been doing the CrossFit Open WODs in order to cull out the people whom are going to participate in the CrossFit Games during the late Spring and Summer.  These WODs are especially tough.  And so, the box I go to has been having the past 4 Fridays to where we do the Open WODs, in addition to the regular strength piece of the workout.

Strength: 15 Minutes
Back Squat x 4-6 Reps  105 lbs.
Half-Kneeling Bottom Up Press x 4-6 Reps  15 lb kettlebell
*For each movement, if you are able to easily perform 6 reps, add weight and shoot for at least 4 reps. If you fail to complete 4 reps, go down in weight.
Conditioning:
14 minute AMRAP
60-calorie row -
50 toes-to-bars -
40 wall-ball shots, 20 / 14 lb.
30 cleans, 135 / 95 lb.
20 muscle-ups


So, the 60 calorie row took about 4 minutes, the 50 toes-to-bars was scaled to where I could lay on the ground, hold on to a post behind me with extended arms and lift my legs about 100 degrees 50 times.  My lower stomach muscles failed at #48.  Then, I used a 14 pound medicine ball sized ball and chunked it up there 40 times.  For the 30 cleans, I used 65 pounds and got through 20 of them before the 14 minutes were up.  I'm so far from doing a muscle up, other than just hanging from the rings.  I can do that!

I had good form during the 4 events because my lower back and other areas do not hurt.

This week, I ran 24 miles.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:22 pm

Nice job on the 12-miler. I think the "chirper" would make me go crazy, so I'm impressed that you can run with it nagging at you constantly. When I check my cadence, I just count the number of right foot landings in a 20-second span. I usually get about 31-32 when I'm running barefoot, which works out to 186-192. It's closer to 180 when I'm in shoes.

It does take some time to build up a faster turnover, because you're essentially training your body new biomechanics, so be patient. You'll get there.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:20 am

@Mark B wrote:Nice job on the 12-miler. I think the "chirper" would make me go crazy, so I'm impressed that you can run with it nagging at you constantly. When I check my cadence, I just count the number of right foot landings in a 20-second span. I usually get about 31-32 when I'm running barefoot, which works out to 186-192. It's closer to 180 when I'm in shoes.

It does take some time to build up a faster turnover, because you're essentially training your body new biomechanics, so be patient. You'll get there.

I'm a little self-conscious about the thing up at Memorial Park, to the degree that I'll turn it off when I see a runner approcaching.  And changing the cadence to just 1 foot landings will decrease the noise by half.  And that conversion of which you wrote could decrease the noise even more.

I probably should not have run 12 miles, being so new to the cadence, but I did and my back was fine on Sunday.

This morning, I ran 3 miles and change at a cadence of 164, up 1 from last week.  I'll stay at this cadence until next week.  Saturday, I have a 7 hour clinic on this style in Austin, about 2 and a half hours from Houston.  Hopefully, what I've learned doesn't have to be too terribly re-learned.

I'll post the splits, this evening sometime.

3.43 miles, 40:58, 11:57 avg pace, 137 avg HR, 144 max HR during miles 1 and 3, 162 avg spm

  1. 11:46, 135 bpm, 163 spm
  2. 12:30, 135 bpm, 158 spm
  3. 11:42, 139 bpm, 163 spm



About 45 minutes after the run, I did CrossFit.

Strength: 15 Minutes
Power Snatch x 3 Reps  started at 55 and went up to 75 pounds.
HEAVY Goblet Squat x 6 Reps  53 pounds
Conditioning: 8 min AMRAP
One Round Equals:
1 Power Snatch 55 pounds
1 Box Jump 20" size
3 Power Snatch
3 Box Jumps
5 Power Snatch
5 Box Jumps

So, the 1-3-5 reps constitutes 1 rep.  I did 5 reps in 8 minutes.  It was my first WOD with box jumps.  20" was a good, safe height to start with.  I probably could've placed a 35 or 45 pound plate on it to make it a ~22" box jump, but why risk it?   Smile   I should be able to jump to a 24" box in 4-6 weeks.

As I write this, I'm not very sore at all, but the muscle at the front ('front' being chest) of the shoulder socket was whining a bit during the 8 minutes.


Last edited by ounce on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:49 pm

There is a metronome app that you can download that might not be as hard to use since it is on the phone and you can use headphones.  I know that it is hard to get the cadence rate up and I'm glad my natural rate is around the 180.  If you look at my Garmin data you will see that I drift as low as 172-174 when I'm slowing my natural pace, but when "Racing" I'm naturally at 180-184.  When I was coming back from surgery and injury last year, it took me along time to get back to that 180.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:06 pm

I did check for an app for a Shuffle, but they're all for the iphone or ipad.  Both are bigger than I wish to carry.

This link will provide the shape and size of the metronome.  http://www.amazon.com/Seiko-DM51-Digital-Metronome-Silver/dp/B009Q1B2CY/ref=sr_1_22?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1395687640&sr=1-22&keywords=seiko+metronome

I can pretty much limit 80% of the sound by covering it up with my hand, while I run.

I know the more I use the chirper, the sooner that I'll be able to not use it as much because my feet and ears will be in sync.  Something tells me though that I'm not extending my feet rearward enough (twisting the hips enough), so I'll have to slow down a bit until my hips get into the game more consistently.  I'm going to a clinic on Saturday, so I'll get the 411 on this.

Thanks, 1L.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:02 pm

Monday, Tuesday and Thursday are settling in to be my running days.  Monday is a 40 minute run, Tuesday is a 6-8 mile day and Thursday is a long run day.
Monday, Wednesday and Friday are settling in to be my CrossFit days.

This morning felt like an 8 mile run, so that's what I did.  I'm working on getting comfortable with a 164 step/minute runner, this week.  It was 49 degrees with a dewpoint of 49, clear skies and no wind.  I wore a long sleeved shirt, no gloves and no do-rag.

8.12 miles, 1:38:16, 12:06 pace, 133 avg bpm, 145 max bpm during mile 3, 162 avg spm, 1st half pace 12:12, 2nd half pace 12:00


  1. 11:57, 126 bpm, 162 spm
  2. 12:27, 130 bpm, 161 spm
  3. 12:02, 131 bpm, 162 spm
  4. 12:19, 135 bpm, 163 spm
  5. 12:20, 132 bpm, 160 spm
  6. 11:34, 134 bpm, 162 spm
  7. 11:51, 136 bpm, 163 spm
  8. 11:54, 136 bpm, 162 bpm


It seems I was distracted during mile 5 because my cadence slipped a bit.  This morning's run was easier to maintain the 164 chirping than Monday's run.  I was even beginning to feel my hip twist rearward, thereby allowing my stride to go longer to the rear.  This hip twist is supposed to be one of the larger minor benefits of this approach, as it can extend the length of your stride a few inches.

Indeed, even my heart rate was dropping when compared to Monday and last Friday's 12 mile.  Hmmm.

And since I like to see comparisons, below is the same course done in April 2013, when the temp was 47 degrees.  I like the following quote from below, "Crap, and I'm going to have to hold that pace for the trip back."  LOL.  1 year later and that wasn't a problem.  My average HR on the run below is my max HR on the run above, plus I had 4 sub-12 laps above with only 1 sub-12 last year.

Thanks for dropping by.

April 17, 2013-------------------
A 47 degree starting temperature at 4:45 a.m. with no wind. Eight miles is the target. I start out and it seems I'm not getting into a good groove, as if I have a small anchor that I'm dragging. When I get to Memorial at about mile 3, I'm doing a 12:33 pace, but it seems that I'm finding a groove. Running on the trail with people passing me, I step it up a bit and by the halfway point, I'm at 12:23 pace. Crap, and I'm going to have to hold that pace for the trip back.

Something happens and I'm running faster. I don't know why, but my average pace is dropping. Guess I got the trash out of my legs. So, the last mile, I put the hammer down where I was hoping for a sub-12 minute mile. That was a good run and possibly a recipe for handling future runs.

8 mile run, 1:37:34, 12:08 avg pace, 145 avg HR, 160 max HR during mile 8, 12:23 first half average and 11:53 2nd half pace.


  1. 12:20, 138 bpm
  2. 12:46, 139 bpm
  3. 12:23, 144 bpm
  4. 12:01, 149 bpm
  5. 12:05, 144 bpm
  6. 12:06, 147 bpm
  7. 12:01, 147 bpm
  8. 11:26, 150 bpm
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:32 pm

That is some nice progress, Doug and an it can be attributed to all the hard work that you have done over the past year.  Nice job.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:07 pm

Nice work, Ounce! Part of that speedy sensation just might come from a more efficient, faster stride.

One way to track cadence without a beeper/clicker is to count the steps on your right foot. (Or left, I suppose...)

30 one-side steps in 20 seconds equals a cadence of 180.
29 one-side steps in 20 seconds equals a cadence of 174
28 one-side steps in 20 seconds equals a cadence of 168.

I found counting works better because it forces the rhythm into my head. It's gotten to the point to where I can feel when my footfalls are at the right level.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 pm

Thank y'all very much.  Mark, I don't think I would be able to count like that.  I was at the running clinic in Austin on Saturday, and when they asked us to count our steps in 30 seconds, I did it 2 out of 3 attempts.  So, I may work my way down to just having the metronome beep on the left or the right foot only, essentially a stride rate, as opposed to a step rate.

Anyway and as alluded to, I was at the ChiRunning clinic on Saturday in Austin.  Burned the crap out of my head due to the sunshine.  It was really informative and Danny Dreyer, the author of the book, led the clinic.  There were about 25-29 people there.  Because I want to go to bed, I'll just say the clinic helped me out, where the book and DVD couldn't by giving us 1 on 1 critiques and help.  They had us doing 175 spm, pretty much out of the gate.  So, there's no reason for me to believe that I can't hit 180 soon.

I understand a lot better of the theory with which to make application.  I think it has the potential to assist me in becoming more efficient at running and to even lengthen my stride a couple of inches with each step.  Like nutritional ketosis, y'all will just have to see if it's worthwhile for you.

I have Thursday and Friday's  workouts to write about, so I'll work on that over the next couple of days.  Tomorrow is a 40 minute run and CrossFit.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  mul21 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:03 pm

Ounce, I think you may be having a disconnect with this cadence vs. stride length thing.  At slower paces, your stride will naturally be shorter than it would at faster paces.  So, worrying about stride length is really kind of irrelevant in this particular discussion.  I remember a post from VW a while back where he noted that he, Chris and Schuey were running at the same pace along the Lakefront path and despite their differences in height (VW at 6'5", Chris at 5'10" or so and Schuey around 6'1" maybe) they were all running with the exact same cadence and stride length.  The whole point of hitting 180 is to get your stride length to be correct for the pace you're running and getting your body's center of gravity correctly positioned with your stride to prevent injury and inefficiency.  If you're at less than 180, you're more than likely over striding and at the very least wasting energy and at the worst opening yourself up to the possibility of injury.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:44 am

Much obliged, Jim.

One of the tenets of chi running is that the steps per minute is always the same, stride length stays the same (and once you effectively learn how to swivel your hips which is very easy to do, stride length can be extended about 3 inches or so), and speed comes through leaning your body at the ankles, not the waist or the shoulders.

The first 3 hours of the clinic was just getting your posture correct by lining up your shoulders with your hips and stretching the crown of your head upwards.  It feels really awkward, when you're in the right posture, but within 30 minutes, I had a new normal.  Prior to the new normal, you feel like you're leaning forward, but your core is engaged below the belly button and the posture feels different, but I can set myself into position really quickly, now.

The perfect (yet a little exaggerated) demonstration of chi running is the Road Runner.  Legs are churning like wheels, not a pendulum and the body is leaned for the speed desired.  Your legs are just there to keep you upright, not propulsion.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:20 pm

Last Thursday morning, I ran the almost 9 mile loop.  It was 63 degrees and I made the mistake of thinking it was a dry 63.  I saw the dewpoint, but it didn't register that I should wear a short-sleeved shirt.  I wore a long sleeve and was sweating more than I should have been.  It was some 15 degrees warmer than last Tuesday's 8 mile run.

8.67 miles, 1:47:27, 12:23 pace, 143 avg HR, 157 max HR during mile 7, 162 spm avg, 1st half pace 12:14 and 2nd half pace 12:32.


  1. 11:57, 136 bpm, 163 spm
  2. 12:23, 140 bpm, 163 spm
  3. 12:18, 143 bpm, 163 spm
  4. 12:29, 146 bpm, 163 spm
  5. 12:27, 145 bpm, 162 spm
  6. 12:08, 146 bpm, 162 spm
  7. 12:25, 144 bpm, 158 spm
  8. 12:22, 144 bpm, 162 spm
  9. 12:27 pace, 146 bpm, 162 spm


I think and I believe the increase in pace was due to the temperature.  The chirper was set on 164.  As a result of the clinic on Saturday, tomorrow I'll start at 175 spm.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:22 pm

Last Friday's CrossFit workout was a toughie.  The strength part wasn't so bad, but the conditioning part was the CrossFit Open Games workout 14.5

Strength: 3 Rounds
Pendlay Row x 8 Reps
DB Good Mornings x 8 Reps
Side Plank x 20 sec R/L
Conditioning:


Workout 14.5




For time
21-18-15-12-9-6-3 reps of:
Thrusters, 95 / 65 lb.
Burpees


We had 16 minutes to go as far as we could.  The 3-time male winner of the CrossFit Games did it in under 9 minutes.  The WHOLE thing.

I got through 21, 18 and 12.  Argh.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:26 pm

Monday's CrossFit exercise was the following
Strength: Strict Press
Warm-Up: 2-3 sets of 5 Reps
Work Sets: 65% x 5, 70% x 5, 77% x 5+ (AMRAP)  I worked up to 85 pounds.
Conditioning: 4 Rounds for Total Reps
30 sec Pull-Ups w/green 2'' assist strap
20 sec Rest
30 sec Sit-Ups
20 sec Rest
30 sec Push Press 55 lbs
20 sec Rest
Cool Down: 4 x 100m Farmer’s Carry  I used a 45 lb kettlebell.
I go, You go w/ a partner

I didn't run, Monday morning.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:46 pm

Oh, I've been running and doing CrossFit.  Actually, I'm more consistent with the running than the CrossFit.  I had to adjust the schedule on CrossFit, so that now I'm doing M, T, and F, then running M, W, and Th.

This morning, I ran 11 miles and my step rate is at 167 spm.  I'm finding it challenging to maintain the 167 throughout.  However, should I really focus, I can maintain the 167.  My HR is averaging 140 or 70%, so I'm pedalling faster than pre-Chi and HR is faster.  At the point when I am easily (or less labored may be more accurate) in maintaining the 167, I can rotate my hips a little and get a little more distance per step.  Just two inches (some get 3-4 inches) per step extra is almost 28 feet further down the road per minute (2 * 167)/12 inches.  And if you only do that for half of a marathon, that amounts to 4,200 extra feet or 0.8 miles further down the road.  For only rotating your hips for an extra 2 inches a step.

But you have to get comfortable at the new step rate, so you can in turn rotate the hips.  At least, that is what Iv'e been finding.

Stats later.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:49 pm

Thanks for your comments in my blog.  How's this for Ohio weather - Sunday and Tuesday:



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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:33 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Thanks for your comments in my blog.  How's this for Ohio weather - Sunday and Tuesday:



Well, at least you won't have to water them.  Do y'all have azaleas up there?
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:15 am

No azaleas like the south.  We do have lilacs and dogwoods though and they are finally starting to bud out.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:45 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:No azaleas like the south.  We do have lilacs and dogwoods though and they are finally starting to bud out.

While I was in Sacramento for Reina's race, I saw azaleas, red tip phontinias and indian hawthornes.  I was very surprised.

Stay Smart.
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Re: Fracking the system

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