Survival of the fittest

nkrichards wrote:Thanks Doug and Mark...the numbers are interesting but it's daily life that's more important.

So...I've been on Gramma duty for the last 2 1/2 days.  It's hard work.  The boys are 3 1/2 and 1 1/2 and full of energy.  Fortunately they have daycare/preschool for a couple hours each morning so I was able to get a swim and a few minutes on the bike trainer in on Monday and do my core work on Tuesday.  I even found time to do payroll on Monday!

I'm still kind of winging it as far as training goes.  Sounds like we are going to swim on MWF with Wednesday being the day that we have a coach so it's the longer, harder day.  I've just been running or biking on the trainer when time allows.  I've been kind of tired and haven't felt great.  I'm wondering if I jumped back into things a bit to aggressively so I'm trying to slow things down a bit for a few days.

My opinion would be that you're doing something different and your heart & body is trying to adapt to the new or re-started activities.  I think it'll be fine, the heart will adapt and get back on the hammock until you change it up again.  The rest of the body will get there when it gets there.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Thanks Doug and Mark...the numbers are interesting but it's daily life that's more important.

So...I've been on Gramma duty for the last 2 1/2 days.  It's hard work.  The boys are 3 1/2 and 1 1/2 and full of energy.  Fortunately they have daycare/preschool for a couple hours each morning so I was able to get a swim and a few minutes on the bike trainer in on Monday and do my core work on Tuesday.  I even found time to do payroll on Monday!

I'm still kind of winging it as far as training goes.  Sounds like we are going to swim on MWF with Wednesday being the day that we have a coach so it's the longer, harder day.  I've just been running or biking on the trainer when time allows.  I've been kind of tired and haven't felt great.  I'm wondering if I jumped back into things a bit to aggressively so I'm trying to slow things down a bit for a few days.

My opinion would be that you're doing something different and your heart & body is trying to adapt to the new or re-started activities.  I think it'll be fine, the heart will adapt and get back on the hammock until you change it up again.  The rest of the body will get there when it gets there.

The lesson that they drummed into me at cardiac rehab was to watch how I felt the day after a workout.  I could often do something with relative ease but I was drained the next day...an indication that I had done to much.  I guess it is kind of a condensed version of overtraining.  I'm trying to be aware of that and not do to much to quickly even though I'm physically able.  I want to keep the next few weeks at a base training level.

That said...
Wednesday:  Swim 2000 yds.  Nice coached workout.  Run 4.15 w/3 @ 10:35 HR 135
Thursday: Pooped oops!  Core/strength and then drove to Sandy for lunch with Mom
Friday:  Swim 1000 yds.  Bike 30mins on trainer.
Saturday:  Core/strength.  Short run later today if time/energy allows.

Heart issues or no, those are pretty challenging workouts. I can see why you'd get pooped from time to time.

It makes sense to monitor day-after fatigue as a way to gauge if you pushed yourself too far. Maybe your "cardiac event" affects you less during exercise as it does when your body is recovering/rebuilding from the exercise? Either way, I imagine it'd be a little unnerving to not get a sense you're overdoing it during the exercise itself. Do you use a HR monitor? It may give real-time clues.

Mark B wrote:Heart issues or no, those are pretty challenging workouts. I can see why you'd get pooped from time to time.

It makes sense to monitor day-after fatigue as a way to gauge if you pushed yourself too far. Maybe your "cardiac event" affects you less during exercise as it does when your body is recovering/rebuilding from the exercise? Either way, I imagine it'd be a little unnerving to not get a sense you're overdoing it during the exercise itself. Do you use a HR monitor? It may give real-time clues.

I'm not sure how much of my overdoing it problem is heart related and how much is just me.  I've always had trouble remembering to train slow enough and not push to hard especially when I'm in a group situation.  I was getting better...finally able to get in some negative split runs and pace myself more appropriately but I still have a tendency to push to hard.

I do wear a HR monitor.  I've never been very good at paying attention to it while running.  I mainly used it just to see where I was at after I finished a run.  I also don't always trust that it's reading accurately.  Now I'm really confused about how to use it as the Beta Blocker that I'm on tends to keep my HR lower than normal...and/or slows it down like it did during the stress test.  Dr. B says some people can exercise well while on Beta Blockers and others really struggle.  I seem to do OK and still get my HR up fairly high.



I did get out for a run on Saturday afternoon.

My goal was to take it a bit slower...I started out much better.  Here's my run on Wednesday and my run on Saturday.  Same course...out the door and onto the country road with rolling hills.

Wednesday 4.15 mi @ 12:32 HR 119 (high of 165) w/3mi @ 10:35 Avg HR 135
Saturday     4.3  mi @ 12:42 HR 130 (high of 168) w/3mi @ 10:32 Avg HR 146

They sound similar right...except my HR was a bit higher on Saturday even though I felt better.
They both started with 1/2 mi walking warm up.  The difference in mileage was a longer walking cool down.

Now here's the laps of the 3 faster miles.
Wednesday
10:35 HR 139
10:51 HR 131
10:18 HR 134

Saturday
10:56 HR 134
10:57 HR 147
 9:43  HR 158

Not sure what to think of this.  Conditions were similar.  The biggest difference would be that I swam fairly hard before the Wednesday run and my pre-run core/strength workout on Saturday may have been a bit easier.  I felt MUCH better during and after the Saturday run.  I was surprised my HR was that much higher.  I was quite pleased that I started out at a more appropriate pace on Saturday.  That last lap is the fastest I've run in a long time and it felt good!! 

Not sure this counts as an easy base building workout but I was never very good at them anyway.

Sunday was a rest day.

Monday-Swim 1300 yds. with a nice 500 in 10:24.  Nice time for a moderate effort.  I planned to jump on the bike trainer later in the day but the boys asked if I would go to the pool to play with them and I couldn't say no.

Tuesday-Core/strength.  We're gradually increasing our reps and are at about 80% of our goal numbers right now.
Max King's Track Tuesday workout later in the day.  He gives us 2 options depending on our training level.  I chose the shorter obviously.  His suggested effort level was also more than I was ready for so I toned it down a bit.  I ended up essentially doing 4 x 400.  The goal was for the first and last to be the hardest and the middle two at a more moderate effort.  My splits were 2:10, 2:18, 2:11, 2:04  Not fast by any means but nice efforts that felt challenging but didn't raise my HR to high.  Total miles 4:07 Avg HR 121 (136 during the hard intervals) Max HR 155

It's been cold but sunny...nice weather for this time of year.  We may be getting some moisture later today though.

I can understand why the HR data looks a little confusing to you... it's because it is.

Normally, the HR gurus like Maffetone would say that an elevated heart rate would indicate that your body was under greater stress in that Saturday work out. That can happen even in a workout that feels good. Your body may have given you a shot of adrenalin or something that left you feeling super. That'd be the conventional wisdom.

The medication you're taking, though, might throw things off. Did you do the two workouts at the same time of day, the same length of time since you took your medication? If not, maybe that has something to do with it?

It's good that you're wearing the monitor, especially if you have a hard time reining it in. Over time, you can notice trends and begin to match up cause and effect. That can be useful.

Numbers are good to have to review, as well as temps.

Wednesday-Swim 2400 yds.  Not 1 1/2 miles but getting close!  Fun and challenging coached swim.
                 - Bike trainer 30 mins.  Avg HR 98 Max HR 122 Kept this pretty easy as I was tired.

OK...I did my homework.

Here's my Wed/Sat run info reposted.

Wednesday 4.15 mi @ 12:32 HR 119 (high of 165) w/3mi @ 10:35 Avg HR 135
Saturday     4.3  mi @ 12:42 HR 130 (high of 168) w/3mi @ 10:32 Avg HR 146

They sound similar right...except my HR was a bit higher on Saturday even though I felt better.
They both started with 1/2 mi walking warm up.  The difference in mileage was a longer walking cool down.

Now here's the laps of the 3 faster miles.
Wednesday
10:35 HR 139
10:51 HR 131
10:18 HR 134

Saturday
10:56 HR 134
10:57 HR 147
 9:43  HR 158

And more details...
I took my meds around 6:00 am both days and they are an extended release formula.
Run time: Wed 3:30p
                Sat 10:30a
Temp: Wed low 50s.  I wore capris and a long sleeve shirt.  I was chilly...especially my hands
           Sat 37  I wore long pants and layers.  I was to warm before I finished.
My pre-run workout on Wednesday was more difficult than my pre-run workout on Saturday.  But there was more time in between to recover.
2nd Avg HR #: Wed. 139
                       Sat. 145
Sleep: Tues night 8:04 92%
           Fri night 5:59 72% (that's an interesting figure)
These last two figures are from a Basis Peak that my daughter gave me. (Intel product and she works there).  It is not very user friendly for stuff like this as you can't start and stop it on request and it doesn't measure distance but it's an interesting comparison.  The HR readings are often similar but sometimes very different until they settle in.

There is a lot of possible causes for the difference in how I felt and my HR but it's tough to narrow it down to one or even two things.  More than likely it was a combination.  The other thing to consider is the accuracy of the HR readings.

The main purpose of my medication (metoprolol) is to prevent my heart from responding to adrenalin and working to hard.  That said...the nurses were very surprised that I was able to get my HR above 138 (the calculated max for my age/gender) during my stress test.  And the doctor indicated that some people can exercise very well while taking a beta blocker while others just feel tired and lethargic all day.

I'm not really concerned about the HR level...just mainly interested.  Especially in the difference. 

 I did notice one thing as I was looking back at the HR data that I have.  The main reason I decided to wear the Basis Peak is to track my sleep and to keep an eye on my resting HR.  I didn't sleep as well the night before my Sat run...interesting. 

Also...my resting HR has been in the upper 40's but the last week or 10 days it's been dipping down into the low 40s.  The results of increased training efforts?  BUT yesterday it was 55!  I was exhausted after my swim and actually took a short nap after lunch.  I didn't want to skip my bike workout but I did keep it fairly easy.  Looks like I'm back on track as it's at 44 for today.

Nancy, I don't get this part of your report (love the details):
Sleep: Tues night 8:04 92%
           Fri night 5:59 72% (that's an interesting figure)
These last two figures are from a Basis Peak that my daughter gave me. (Intel product and she works there).  It is not very user friendly for stuff like this as you can't start and stop it on request and it doesn't measure distance but it's an interesting comparison.  The HR readings are often similar but sometimes very different until they settle in.

92% and 72% of what?

As far as the spike in resting HR to 55, I seem to remember from the V-Board days that if a resting HR is higher than normal, then the body is not done repairing from the prior day's activities.

ounce wrote:Nancy, I don't get this part of your report (love the details):
Sleep: Tues night 8:04 92%
           Fri night 5:59 72% (that's an interesting figure)
These last two figures are from a Basis Peak that my daughter gave me. (Intel product and she works there).  It is not very user friendly for stuff like this as you can't start and stop it on request and it doesn't measure distance but it's an interesting comparison.  The HR readings are often similar but sometimes very different until they settle in.

92% and 72% of what?

As far as the spike in resting HR to 55, I seem to remember from the V-Board days that if a resting HR is higher than normal, then the body is not done repairing from the prior day's activities.

Doug, I don't fully understand those percentages either.  Somehow they calculate a % that you can use to compare the quality of your sleep with other nights.  They track duration, REM, Deep sleep, toss & turns, and interruptions. I do know the higher percentage is better and I usually average in the upper 80s or low 90s.

And yes, that's why the spike in the resting HR had me concerned.  I believe I read that it was a sign of overtraining.  That's one of the main reasons I decided to wear the Peak.  I have a tendency not be listen to my body very well...

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

Elevated resting heart rates are a sign of strain on the body, which could be anything from overtraining to stress to fighting off a bug. To say 55 bpm is elevated says a lot for you, though. Wowsers.

I have found that my HR while running can relate to how warm I am. If I'm overdressed, the HR goes up. You said you were overdressed on Saturday, so that could be a factor.

Still, it's tough to say anything on a couple of runs. Keep an eye on things and see if patterns develop.

The elevated HR is probably a sign that you are not recovering rather than overtraining.  I think it just means you need a bit more rest between efforts but it also probably means that you are regaining fitness and making strides.  I wouldn't be overly concerned yet, but I would watch it.  You are right to be concerned over the 55, but like Mark said, it could be that you are fighting off something as well.  You also mentioned being exhausted after your swim - so the recovery thing comes to mind for me.

Case in point - I have re-started my Boston training.  While my HR is staying low, I was very sore and tired after Wednesday's hilly run.  It was also 64F which is an anomaly for winter, but it was.  I kept my HR easy during that run, but it did drift a bit which was to be expected given the terrain and temps.  Wed night I was tired and went to bed early - fast forward as I slept right through my alarm and didn't wake up until 9:20 am!  Guess I needed the sleep! and the recovery!  I used to be bad at listening to my body, but I'm getting better.  I was wary of my run yesterday, but after the first few steps it was easy, peasy and I had to slow myself down.  Just keep listening - you are doing great.

Mark B wrote:Elevated resting heart rates are a sign of strain on the body, which could be anything from overtraining to stress to fighting off a bug. To say 55 bpm is elevated says a lot for you, though. Wowsers.

I have found that my HR while running can relate to how warm I am. If I'm overdressed, the HR goes  up. You said you were overdressed on Saturday, so that could be a factor.

Still, it's tough to say anything on a couple of runs. Keep an eye on things and see if patterns develop.

I'm not overly concerned with the elevated resting HR...it's just something I want to start keeping a better eye on.  I'm happy to say that it's back down to 44 so I think I just overdid it and didn't take the time to recover properly.

I'm also thinking that the elevated HR on that Saturday run was probably related to overdressing...and not getting a good nights sleep the night before.  Not overly concerned...just curious


Michele "1L" Keane

The elevated HR is probably a sign that you are not recovering rather than overtraining.  I think it just means you need a bit more rest between efforts but it also probably means that you are regaining fitness and making strides.  I wouldn't be overly concerned yet, but I would watch it.  You are right to be concerned over the 55, but like Mark said, it could be that you are fighting off something as well.  You also mentioned being exhausted after your swim - so the recovery thing comes to mind for me.

Case in point - I have re-started my Boston training.  While my HR is staying low, I was very sore and tired after Wednesday's hilly run.  It was also 64F which is an anomaly for winter, but it was.  I kept my HR easy during that run, but it did drift a bit which was to be expected given the terrain and temps.  Wed night I was tired and went to bed early - fast forward as I slept right through my alarm and didn't wake up until 9:20 am!  Guess I needed the sleep! and the recovery!  I used to be bad at listening to my body, but I'm getting better.  I was wary of my run yesterday, but after the first few steps it was easy, peasy and I had to slow myself down.  Just keep listening - you are doing great.

At this point I'm pretty confident that the elevated HR during that Saturday run and the elevated resting HR a few days later were both probably an indication that I hadn't allowed enough recovery time.  Even though I'm trying not to rush things, I am pushing a bit harder than I have been.  I realize that I'm not great at listening to my body so I'm trying to learn and hoping that having some numbers to look at will help me recognize issues sooner rather than later.  That said I don't want to count on the numbers and as a result ignore the things I am hearing.  I want to push hard enough to gain back fitness without going to far...

I'll get there but patience isn't my strong suit.

So to continue the experiment:

Thursday Core/strength
              4.17 mi @ 12:31 HR 120 (Max 173) w/3 @ 10:40 HR 134

Splits-
11:13 HR 123
10:44 HR 140
10:03 HR 139

2:45p  50 and breezy, Capri, LS shirt & gloves
Basis Peak HR 145
Sleep 6:04 76%

Same course.  I took it kind of easy on purpose as I was feeling tired.  Times are slightly slower but not drastically.  HR about where expected.

Comfortable and was able to remove gloves once I warmed up and got out of the headwind.
Not a great night sleep...the boys spent the night again. 

Friday - Swim 1200 yds
          - Bike 30 mins on trainer HR 112 Max 136

Saturday - Core/strength
              - 5.05 mi @ 11:54 HR 132 Max 161 W/4 mi @ 10:20 HR 145

Splits:
10:25 HR 139
10:35 HR 143
10:24 HR 148
  9:57 HR 152

I decided to venture out a bit farther on Saturday afternoon and added a mile to the run I've been doing recently.  2:30p  50 degrees, overcast with very slight breeze.  Capris, LS shirt.  Left the gloves at home.  My intention was to slow down a bit as I was planning to add the extra mile but I tried running this by feel rather than watching the numbers and I ended up going out much quicker than I had intended.  As a result the HR was a bit higher than recent runs but no more than would be expected.  It ended up being a big confidence boost and I have all day Sunday to recover.

Alright, alright, alright!

Slight interruption in training.

A scratchy throat on Sunday evening turned into a full blown sore throat by Monday morning.  I cancelled swimming, took some Emergen-C, and took it easy on Monday.  I still don't feel great but I haven't gotten any worse.  We did our core/strength work this morning.  My HR was slightly elevated but we just took it slow and easy. 

Interesting note about my resting HR...
Saturday - 45
Sunday - 46
Monday - 40  First full day I didn't feel well????
Tuesday - 46

That wasn't the response I expected!!

nkrichards wrote:Slight interruption in training.

A scratchy throat on Sunday evening turned into a full blown sore throat by Monday morning.  I cancelled swimming, took some Emergen-C, and took it easy on Monday.  I still don't feel great but I haven't gotten any worse.  We did our core/strength work this morning.  My HR was slightly elevated but we just took it slow and easy. 

Interesting note about my resting HR...
Saturday - 45
Sunday - 46
Monday - 40  First full day I didn't feel well????
Tuesday - 46

That wasn't the response I expected!!

Very nice RHR, youngin'!  It's been a while since I've had a sore throat.  I had a cold the week before the marathon in January.

Sore throat isn't any worse.  Only other symptom is discomfort in my ears which is common for me when I catch a cold. 

Felt OK last night so I went ahead and did 30 minutes on the bike trainer.

Still feeling OK this morning...not better but not worse.

I can't make it to the group swim today as we have an appointment with the accountant.  I'll try and squeeze something in...

Oh...RHR this morning 48.  Up a bit which I would imagine is due to the cold....

I'm going to be off the grid for a couple days again.  We're taking Mom for a trip down into Hells Canyon.  We'll do a jet boat ride and then stay at a lodge on the river...pretty remote.  Hoping to see lots of wildlife.

Very busy morning but I finally made it out for a run this afternoon.

6.08 mi @ 12:10 HR 127 Max 159  w/5 mi @ 10:41 HR 137

11:03 (124)
11:24 (131)
10:51 (136)
10:29 (144)
  9:40 (149)

I haven't been this far in a long time and I'm still not feeling 100% so started pretty slow and easy.  2nd mile was tough but I settled in and started to feel better.  Nice finish...pretty happy with this run.

Off to pack my bags...

OK...back to technology...not sure if that's a good thing or not.

We had a great trip.  Drove up the Columbia River gorge and on to White Bird, Idaho the first day. Then we boarded a jet boat for a trip into Hells Canyon up the Snake River in the wild part of the river.  It was an awesome trip.  We saw more elk, mountain goats, and bighorn sheep than we could count.  We stopped at a few historic ranches and also were able to go ashore at the dam.  We spent the night at Kirby Creek Lodge which is only accessible by boat.  We had the boat and the lodge all to ourselves.  Took two days to drive home as we drove the slightly longer scenic route through Baker City.  Family trip...I traveled with my husband, my Mom, my daughter, my brother and my niece.

My only complaint was I arrived home feeling awful.  I didn't sleep well and ate much different than my normal routine.  I sure hope that's all it was...I'm starting to feel a bit better but still feel a bit off.

So...running...not sure if I should post what I did today.

I've been very frustrated that I'm not able to get back to anywhere close to the speeds I was running at a year ago.  That in addition to not feeling well really had me feeling sorry for myself.  So what did I do?  I RAN.

5.11 mi @ 12:18 HR 128 Max 165 w/3 mi @ 10:03 HR 149

That's the fastest 3 miles I've done since last April.  Still not where I'd like to be but boy did it feel good.  Well at least it felt good until I realized that my arms and legs were starting to tingle and go numb.  I'd done what I needed to so I walked for a quarter mile and then jogged the rest of mile 4 and transitioned into my normal cool down walk for the last half mile.  Feeling fine now...and in a much better state of mind.

That trip sounds like a lot of fun. Glad you enjoyed it, even if it did throw your body off its routine.

Totally get the desire to get out there and fly sometimes. Arm tingling is a little weird, but if you're good, it's good.

Mark B wrote:That trip sounds like a lot of fun. Glad you enjoyed it, even if it did throw your body off its routine.

Totally get the desire to get out there and fly sometimes. Arm tingling is a little weird, but if you're good, it's good.

Yes Mark...It did feel good to at least feel like I was flying for a few minutes.  The arm/leg tingling/numbness had me a bit nervous so I mentioned it to Dr. B and he doesn't seem concerned.

Wed - swim 2150 yds (coach day) Nice workout!
        - Bike 30 min on trainer HR 122 max 149 pushed the cadence pretty hard

Thur - Core/strength
       - Treadmill 4 mi 5% 2 mi @ 12:00 3rd mile gradually faster till I got to 10:30 Plus warm up and cool down  HR 119 Max 149  I hate treadmills but 40 mph wind gusts didn't look like a good option either

Fri - Swim 1950 yds  including a very challenging ladder  Very pleased with times.
     - Bike 30 min on trainer HR 108 Max 127  Took it pretty easy but mixed in some one leg drills.  I may need to practice these a bit!

We had to run to Bend today and got caught in a snowstorm.  It was sunny in Madras!  Headed to Cornelius to help our daughter with some house projects this weekend.

Very successful...and tiring trip to Cornelius this weekend to help our daughter with some projects at her new house.  Her husband cooked and we ate way to much!

Sat - early start driving so we had to skip our core/strength work.
      - 4.1 mi @ 11:44 HR avg/max 115/155 w/3.5 @ 10:45 HR avg 121  Ran in the neighborhood that my daughter lives in.  Sidewalks tended to start and stop and there were a lot of stop signs.  I took it easy to make sure I could keep an eye on the traffic and not get lost!  Easy run but I think that was probably a good thing.

Sun - rest(?) day  Finished our projects and drove home.

Mon - Swim 1200 yds including a 500 @ 9:58    I've only managed to swim a 500 under 10 minutes 6 or 7 times.  This was feeling relatively easy this morning and while I had to push a bit on the last lap the laps were all very consistent.  First 500 under 10 since my cardiac event.

So...why is it that I'm still struggling to run anywhere close to pre-cardiac event times but the swimming times have steadily improved and are now at essentially pre-cardiac event levels?  Am I running to conservatively based on fear?  Obviously my cardio is OK to swim so it should be OK to run.  Have I just not run consistently enough to get my legs back to where they need to be?  I don't feel the need to run PRs moving forward but I'd sure like to get a bit closer to my old times...

My guess is that it is subconscious.  Just keep at it.