Funkadelic Happening

Nice improvement Doug!

mul21 wrote:I've had trouble grasping your whole concept from the beginning for several reasons.

1. Cadence should always be ~180, regardless of pace.
2. Stride length will vary greatly dependent upon pace because the cadence should be at ~180.
3. Stride length being a function of cadence will result in having bad form and making yourself susceptible to injury if you alter it in one direction or the other too much.

Those things being said, with your cadence being lower, your stride length will be longer than someone at 180 at the same pace/mile.  I guess my whole point is that if you get your cadence to 180, the rest will fall into place naturally and you shouldn't really worry about stride length because it will be where it's supposed to by default.  As a side note, I do tend to fall below 180 when doing recovery runs and am up into the 190s during a 5K.

Welcome back, Jim!

For me, I'm going to have to work up to 180, if I want to do a marathon each year.  I've never been able to do 180 for a long period.  Last year, I was probably running a cadence of 150.  This Summer, I got up to 174, but I figured out that my heart rate wasn't going to attain 70%-80% of HRmax during a long run, by the time my training cycle would start.  Hence, I reduced the cadence to 165 and it seems my HR can maintain it for at least 14 miles.  So, +/-2 steps, 165 will be my training cadence.

I can lengthen my stride by rotating my hips rearward on each step and leaning forward at the ankles.  My heel never gets past my knee, when I run.


So, instead of this...
I get this...


My stride doesn't have my heel out in front of my foot, at any speed.  Therefore, I get speed by leaning at the ankles (because if I lean more, my feet have to get under me quicker to ensure that I don't fall on my face) and I can get a little more speed by rotating my hips rearward on each stride, but that takes more practice and looser hips.  I do appreciate the conversation.

nkrichards wrote:Nice improvement Doug!

Hey Nancy, thanks very much.  Now, if I can stay healthy that would be really nice.

Like Jim, I'm a bit confused over all the cadence and stride length stuff.  Also like Jim, my goal is simply to have the same cadence no matter the pace, and I'm actually getting there.  That bein said, I would say that your fitness has improved a lot over the summer and that you are ready for this cycle.

Okay, well, it boils down to this.  Last year, I was probably at a 150 cadence or less.  Right now, I can't do 180 for a mile.  I can do 174 for 9 miles, but was very tired and then believed that I could not get my body to adapt quickly enough to run long enough runs for a January marathon.  So, I settled at 165 because I could run long between 70% - 75% of HR max.

I could get into stride length, but I will do the odd thing and stop typing.  I do appreciate y'alls thougths.

Yesterday morning, I mailed back my 220 to mother Garmin, so I can get a newly refurbed one.
I also lifted weights on the upper body for about 15 minutes, before going to the post office.

Last night, I went to yoga again.  This is the Vinyasa flavor of yoga...the one with Warrior 1, Warrior 2, pigeon, etc.  The substitute instructor was really good and I'm amazed at some of the positions she could get into.  I look forward to doing it over the next 18 weeks.

And since I didn't have a measuring device for this morning's run, I went out with no strap on my chest and no strap on my wrist.  Oh, how light I felt!

This was the long run day with the asterisk of last night's yoga and could it affect the distance.  I wanted to do 12, but did 11.  Meh, no biggie.  I bumped up the cadence from 165 to 166.  I know from past experience that even just one step can sneak up on you and slow you down.  It did do that, but I was able to keep the 166 going for the whole run.

It was 69 degrees with the same dewpoint, but still comfortable.  Sweat wasn't running down my legs and I didn't have to lay down on a towel for 10 minutes waiting for the sweat to evaporate.  There were a couple of times when my leg or foot got slightly caddywompus and my upper leg around the hip flexor growled at me, but quickly settled down.

No running this weekend.  Thanks for stopping by.

71 degrees with a 71 degree dewpoint, but somehow there was an intermittent wind.  Still this is 4-7 degrees cooler than two weeks ago.  Maybe this is the 'de-acclimitization' process.

With my watch gone to Kansas, it was just my gnome and me.  I continued the setting at 166 cadence and decided that now is the time to start running faster.  I've been slowly inching up the cadence because a higher cadence is better than a lower one, even 1 step per minute. 

I have four weeks until the Houston Half.  I just need to get going, now that Summer is breaking down.  I ran 8 miles this morning at an unknown pace, but I was leaning more than usual, so I know I was faster than usual.  Please keep in mind that 'faster' is a relative term. 

And my feet are increasingly disliking the casual shoe use of the Nike Vomero 7's that I used to run in, last year up to October.  The softness coupled with the way my left ankle on the medial side collapses further than in the Kinvara 4's, upsets the space/time continuum.  I'm going to find me a zero drop shoe or something minimalist that will be my 'sneakers' or 'tennis shoes' for casual time and mimic the Kinvaras.  This will be the first time in 11 years that I haven't used old running shoes as hand-me-down casual shoes.

Glad things are cooling down. I always use my old running shoes for walking, I thought that was pretty standard. I hope you find something that works for your casual shoes that isn't too ridiculously expensive.

Good to see a new blog.  The other was getting a bit muddled if I didn't keep up with it.  So many experiments and drills.  I, too, am working up to 180 cadence.  I seem to be very comfortable at 164 and without the metronome, I forget to keep going at it.

I ran my first 50k in Huntsville (Sun Mart), loved the course although if it rains prior to the race, one area in particular gets quite swampy!

New Avatar...I like it.

Julie wrote:Glad things are cooling down. I always use my old running shoes for walking, I thought that was pretty standard. I hope you find something that works for your casual shoes that isn't too ridiculously expensive.

Hey, Julie!  It's supposed to get back into the 60's for lows this weekend, so maybe y'all will get it tomorrow or Thursday?

Well, I'm a penny pincher, so I have to fully wear things out.  I was looking at runningwarehouse.com and they had some possiblities that were on clearance for $50.  About a month ago, I went to a big box store and I was floored that simple Converse Chuck Taylor shoes were about $50, instead of the $20 I remembered them to cost.

dot520 wrote:Good to see a new blog.  The other was getting a bit muddled if I didn't keep up with it.  So many experiments and drills.  I, too, am working up to 180 cadence.  I seem to be very comfortable at 164 and without the metronome, I forget to keep going at it.

I ran my first 50k in Huntsville (Sun Mart), loved the course although if it rains prior to the race, one area in particular gets quite swampy!

New Avatar...I like it.

Dot, I finally learned to keep a blog short, so we'll see how this one goes.  I do want to get up to the 170's, but I've read that it's easier for shorter people to get to 180, than tall people running 180 because of the length of the legs.

I, too, ran my first 50K there.  I really don't see 'running' that course in the dark with all of the roots above the surface.

Thanks on the avatar.  I'll change it up, in keeping with the 60's counter culture, tie-dyed, Woodstock theme.

-30-

Went and lifted weights, this morning.  Upper body only, with the exception of the abductor and adductor machines.  Tomorrow will be a 5 mile run with hills disguised as a parking garage!

Did a 4-5 mile run of about 1.5 mile run to the parking garage, then 3 laps of running the ramps, then 1.5 back home.  The gnome was set at 166 cadence with no watch.

Boy, by that 3rd lap, I was sure tuckered out.  Doing a 166 cadence uphill is a real challenge.  I know that I'll get better at it, but my upper quads were bitchin' and moanin' all the way home.  A challenge was taking those itty bitty steps on an incline.

My watch is supposed to be delivered by close of day Thursday, just in time for Friday's long run.  Sleeping in tomorrow morning with yoga tomorrow evening.

ounce wrote:Did a 4-5 mile run of about 1.5 mile run to the parking garage, then 3 laps of running the ramps, then 1.5 back home.  The gnome was set at 166 cadence with no watch.

Boy, by that 3rd lap, I was sure tuckered out.  Doing a 166 cadence uphill is a real challenge.  I know that I'll get better at it, but my upper quads were bitchin' and moanin' all the way home.  A challenge was taking those itty bitty steps on an incline.

My watch is supposed to be delivered by close of day Thursday, just in time for Friday's long run.  Sleeping in tomorrow morning with yoga tomorrow evening.

You keep talking about "itty bitty steps" -- are you neglecting to tell us that you're 7 feet tall or something?

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Did a 4-5 mile run of about 1.5 mile run to the parking garage, then 3 laps of running the ramps, then 1.5 back home.  The gnome was set at 166 cadence with no watch.

Boy, by that 3rd lap, I was sure tuckered out.  Doing a 166 cadence uphill is a real challenge.  I know that I'll get better at it, but my upper quads were bitchin' and moanin' all the way home.  A challenge was taking those itty bitty steps on an incline.

My watch is supposed to be delivered by close of day Thursday, just in time for Friday's long run.  Sleeping in tomorrow morning with yoga tomorrow evening.

You keep talking about "itty bitty steps" -- are you neglecting to tell us that you're 7 feet tall or something?

Well, no, but a parking garage ramp has an incline and when I'm doing 166 steps per minute, I can't take normal steps.  Even 166 spm steps on flat ground is a 30 inch.

The recently refurbed 220 arrived today.  It's paired and has found the satellite.

A cold front is arriving in the morning with storms to be coming by ahead of the front, with the timing of the rain to be during my run.

ounce wrote:The recently refurbed 220 arrived today.  It's paired and has found the satellite.

A cold front is arriving in the morning with storms to be coming by ahead of the front, with the timing of the rain to be during my run.

Nifty on both counts!

So, I take it you like the 220? We still have two 305s that are going strong, so it'll be a while before I need to change. But that doesn't mean I can't engage in a little techno-lust now and again.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:The recently refurbed 220 arrived today.  It's paired and has found the satellite.

A cold front is arriving in the morning with storms to be coming by ahead of the front, with the timing of the rain to be during my run.

Nifty on both counts!

So, I take it you like the 220? We still have two 305s that are going strong, so it'll be a while before I need to change. But that doesn't mean I can't engage in a little techno-lust now and again.

My recommendation is to keep on buying refurbed 305's until you can't.  The 220 has only 3 advantages over the 305.  It finds the satellite wickedly fast, cadence, and it also serves as a watch.  The 220 only has about 12 settings from which to choose.  I loved the 305's Last Lap Pace and Last Lap HR so I could, before the next mile, see what I ran.  Not on the 220.  When you hit the mile marker, it tells you the split, but that's it until you upload.  I don't know how much the 305 uploads to GarminConnect.

-30-

No run today.  I will continue a run, when it starts to rain, but I won't start a run in the pouring rain.  I get my head right, as I walk to my starting point, and I just can't do that in the rain, unless it's a race.  I woke up an hour later and it was still raining.  Then another hour, and I saw a flash of lightning with the thunder following just 2 seconds (1/3 mile away) later.  Finally at 4 a.m., I gave up because it was still raining. 

Oh, well, I'll have to run 16 miles another day.  But the weekend is supposed to be great with temps on Saturday morning at 59 and high of 79.  Yesterday, it was 93.

I have a 305 and a 405 and while I like the 405, It's a pain because it stays on all the time and it has to be charged just about every other day.  The only downside to the 305 in my experience is how bulky it is and the lag time between turning it on and it grabbing satellites, which the 405 does much faster.  I've gone to using the 305 for biking and the 405 for running so I don't have to constantly mess with the settings on either one.

1hr later + 1hr later = 4am?!  You were going to run at 2 in the morning?  What?

Re: watch discussion - the 310xt is a nice evolution from the 305.  Slightly more features + smaller.  I've enjoyed mine so far.

Mike MacLellan wrote:1hr later + 1hr later = 4am?!  You were going to run at 2 in the morning?  What?

Re: watch discussion - the 310xt is a nice evolution from the 305.  Slightly more features + smaller.  I've enjoyed mine so far.

Actually 1:30 a.m.  I can't run on the weekends, so I have to run when I can fit it in.  And my legs are fresher in the mornings, than after work.  16 miles takes me a while to run...between 3.5-4 hours.

ounce wrote:

Mike MacLellan wrote:1hr later + 1hr later = 4am?!  You were going to run at 2 in the morning?  What?

Re: watch discussion - the 310xt is a nice evolution from the 305.  Slightly more features + smaller.  I've enjoyed mine so far.

Actually 1:30 a.m.  I can't run on the weekends, so I have to run when I can fit it in.  And my legs are fresher in the mornings, than after work.  16 miles takes me a while to run...between 3.5-4 hours.

Yes Mike, I agree...he's crazy! Getting up early to run is one thing but that early is just crazy.

ounce wrote:My recommendation is to keep on buying refurbed 305's until you can't.  The 220 has only 3 advantages over the 305.  It finds the satellite wickedly fast, cadence, and it also serves as a watch.  The 220 only has about 12 settings from which to choose.  I loved the 305's Last Lap Pace and Last Lap HR so I could, before the next mile, see what I ran.  Not on the 220.  When you hit the mile marker, it tells you the split, but that's it until you upload.  I don't know how much the 305 uploads to GarminConnect.

That's good to know. I've got a 305 that I really like. I don't mind the bulk. I've figured out how to use it and I can read it so I'm happy...BUT...lately I've been having to reset it on a regular basis to get it to start up and the battery doesn't last very long. It wouldn't be much good for a marathon at this point. I've tried letting it run completely down and recharging but that hasn't helped. Any suggestions to make this one last? Can/should I send this one in? Buy a refurbished one while I can?

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mike MacLellan wrote:1hr later + 1hr later = 4am?!  You were going to run at 2 in the morning?  What?

Re: watch discussion - the 310xt is a nice evolution from the 305.  Slightly more features + smaller.  I've enjoyed mine so far.

Actually 1:30 a.m.  I can't run on the weekends, so I have to run when I can fit it in.  And my legs are fresher in the mornings, than after work.  16 miles takes me a while to run...between 3.5-4 hours.

Yes Mike, I agree...he's crazy!  Getting up early to run is one thing but that early is just crazy.

I guess that i'd get a few , if I told you that i have started at midnight, in the past.

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:My recommendation is to keep on buying refurbed 305's until you can't.  The 220 has only 3 advantages over the 305.  It finds the satellite wickedly fast, cadence, and it also serves as a watch.  The 220 only has about 12 settings from which to choose.  I loved the 305's Last Lap Pace and Last Lap HR so I could, before the next mile, see what I ran.  Not on the 220.  When you hit the mile marker, it tells you the split, but that's it until you upload.  I don't know how much the 305 uploads to GarminConnect.

That's good to know.  I've got a 305 that I really like.  I don't mind the bulk.  I've figured out how to use it and I can read it so I'm happy...BUT...lately I've been having to reset it on a regular basis to get it to start up and the battery doesn't last very long.  It wouldn't be much good for a marathon at this point.  I've tried letting it run completely down and recharging but that hasn't helped.  Any suggestions to make this one last? Can/should I send this one in?  Buy a refurbished one while I can?

Yes!  They're around $90.  I even have an old 305 that i'm going to do to use it as a backup.
thanks for checking in, too.

To think Ounce is out there running when all the drunks are driving home after the bars close gives me some pause, but hey, if it works for you... it's great training for a 24-hour race someday.

Interesting discussion on the Garmins. I'm accustomed to the bulk of the 305, and I have no need for another wristwatch, so it'll do for now. If I have to replace it, the 310xt might work. I'd like a barometric altimeter, but that's only in the super-luxe 920XT and that just isn't going to happen.

It works for me, because it has to work for me.

As light as traffic is at that time of night, it peaks about 2:30, then drops until 5.  The biggest (but dangerous for them) hoot are the cars that are stopped with their driver asleep.  One time, there was a BMW X5 that was stopped on a very low traffic, 40 mph road.  I ran past him, then an hour later when I was running back home along the same route, he was still there.  I thumped the quarter panel, fairly hard, with no response.

ounce wrote:It works for me, because it has to work for me.

As light as traffic is at that time of night, it peaks about 2:30, then drops until 5.  The biggest (but dangerous for them) hoot are the cars that are stopped with their driver asleep.  One time, there was a BMW X5 that was stopped on a very low traffic, 40 mph road.  I ran past him, then an hour later when I was running back home along the same route, he was still there.  I thumped the quarter panel, fairly hard, with no response.

Wow. Hope he wasn't, well, you know...


... because you left your prints on his car.