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50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:23 am

@Mike MacLellan wrote:You just wanted to show off those calf veins.  

Yes, there are frequent reminders, which many people ignore.  I've always followed the runners-stay-left thing, since it's also the law on roads, but it seems like the ARBT is the only one to actually enforce it.  All the mixed use trails here are runners-stay-right, as are the ones near Aileen's parents' house (I still stay left on those).


Funny thing, the "which side to run on".  I actually got reprimanded 2 weeks ago by a park bike cop for running on the left side. 

@nkrichards wrote:Sounds like Valentines Day was an especially nice one this year. Very Happy 

Looks like plans are coming together for your 50K.  You're taking care of all the details ahead of time...  Enjoy taper...

It's weird Nancy, because I'm lot really looking at the 50k as a "race" the taper thing doesn't really seem to have the same weight.  I've actually toyed with adding in some miles this week, but since the last 3 weeks have been 50+, I do need a stepback week, and then the following week is the week before the 50k, so kinda have to take it easier there just because I'll be doing a longer run than I've ever done before by about 5 miles.

@Mark B wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:So y'know that slow group that you get caught behind at the beginning of like, every race, and you always get frustrated and have to wait for the opening to zoom past them?  Don't zoom past them.  That's the difference between a marathon and a 50k.  That slow group is now a group of your closest friends for the next 10 miles.  After that, maybe you can zoom by them.

After spending the first 10 miles of the Eugene Marathon with you, I heartily second Mike's suggestion. Go out too hard at the start of a longer race and you may end up in a sufferfest -- or not finishing at all.

I have great memories of Eugene, Mark.  The course was great, the results were good, and I got to meet up with a lot of the great people in the group.  You are dead on with the advice, I've just got to find a way to make it happen.  Where's a pace group when you need it!!??
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:17 pm

The runs of the last two days, 10 and 6 miles respectively have been great.  All the indicators - PRE, HR, Pace - line up nicely and the run seems easy.  Maybe it is just my body's way of saying thank you for taking a stepback week.

I got a notice from my shoe store that my Kinvara model was becoming obsolete, so needed to buy more if I wanted the same model.  The only problem was that I never have the model (Kinvara 5) that they were talking about, I'd only made it as far as the 4.  But it got me to thinking that I really should check the mileage on my shoes.  Good thing I did.  Turns out that my two pairs had a total of 800 miles on them, and they aren't super cushioned to start.  Oops.  So, did a little on-line research comparing the 4 to the 5 and there were really no negatives and a couple of good improvements, so I went and got myself a couple of pairs.  Yup, the old shoes were well past retirement and the new ones feel great.  Maybe that's what is responsible for the good runs - happy feet!
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:29 pm

I've moved into taper #1 of 2.  It is going to be weird to have two taper periods in 4-5 weeks.  It is also different to be running 32 miles during my taper week.  I'm learning that ultra distance training is a little bit different, but in a fun, learning way. 

I've officially started obsessing on the 50k race next Sunday to get all the ducks in a row.  The event actually has 3 races (HM, marathon, 50k) running on the same course at the same time.  Sorta.  The 50k and marathon start at the same point at the same time, but quickly diverge to add 3.1 miles onto the course for the 50k (and do the same at the marathon midpoint).  The 3.1 loops back to the starting line, so if I'm sticking to plan and doing a 9:36ish pace, I'll be passing the queued up half marathoners as they start 30 minutes later.  Which means that approximately a minute later they will be unleashed to come dashing past all us 50k runners as they follow their speedy pace plans.  Guess I'll just listen for the thundering herd to come up behind me

I got my reformulated Infinit fuel today and mixed up a test bottle.  It is a rest day, so can't really put it to the test to see have truly foam-free it is (that'll come tomorrow) so just shook the heck out of it in a clear bottle.  Initial results are very promising.  This means I'll likely be able to go with my smaller, better fitting, bottle in my ultra vest for the fuel, a bottle that will hold about 2 hours worth which includes 15 oz. of water.  I was thinking that this, along with another 16 oz. bottle of water would be all I'd need, just refilling the water as needed.  This plan would call for mixing up a replacement bottle of Infinit during the race, but that is just a baggie full of powder and water.  As I side note, I looked at the aid station spacing and see that there are between 3.4 and 5.5 miles between aid stations.  Wow, I hope the marathon runners take a good look at this in advance as they have only 6 aid stations for water along the course with some pretty significant spacing between, and most don't usually carry water with them. 

So it looks like the plan I outlined before is still a go, but am toying with the idea of not starting the 5/1 run/walk right away, but instead run the first hour straight so that I'll get a better feeling of being tired at the end.  Haven't quite decided what to do yet as I also want to be able to finish this race without causing any training interruption, especially since I have a 24 mile run scheduled the following Thursday.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:25 pm

Not a good day.  Did my 12 miler as a comfortable run, but about mile 6 started getting some discomfort in my left glutes.  It was irritating but not bad.  Went to lunch afterwards and when I stood up it was a definite ouch.  Feels like piriformis based on the localized pain and what feels like referred pain down the leg.  It isn't as bad as the injury I got pre-CIM on the right side, and have started the Motrin and PT regimen that worked for the right side.  I can't point to anything that brought this on; last week was a stepback week, this week is taper, was running on the flats when I first felt it, and was runnning at a moderate pace.  Will Sunday's 50k be a possibility?  Time will tell.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tim C on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:38 pm

@Tom H wrote:Not a good day.  Did my 12 miler as a comfortable run, but about mile 6 started getting some discomfort in my left glutes.  It was irritating but not bad.  Went to lunch afterwards and when I stood up it was a definite ouch.  Feels like piriformis based on the localized pain and what feels like referred pain down the leg.  It isn't as bad as the injury I got pre-CIM on the right side, and have started the Motrin and PT regimen that worked for the right side.  I can't point to anything that brought this on; last week was a stepback week, this week is taper, was running on the flats when I first felt it, and was runnning at a moderate pace.  Will Sunday's 50k be a possibility?  Time will tell.

Tom, I hope you can run it but listen to your body.  One thing I've learned at my advanced age is that just toughing it out like I was still 25 just doesn't cut it anymore.  Often it only makes things worse.  Sometimes taking it easy is much, much better for you in the long run...
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Nick Morris on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:50 pm

Awww nuts!! Hopefully this is just a niggle and will go away shortly. Or hopefully it is a part of Taper Madness.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:51 pm

It could be taper, or it could be your new shoes. If you want to experiment, try a short run in the old shoes and see what happens.

As to the 5/1 strategy, I'd humbly suggest not waiting an hour to implement it. The secret of ultras is energy conservation, so you don't want to burn too much energy too soon. Better to save the "all run" mindset for the LAST hour, if your body feels up to it.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:23 pm

Mark, thanks for the good advice - I'll be using it.  Things are still out of sorts today so I'm taking the planned 6 miles as a(n active) rest day.  Dog walking in 1.5 mile clips is the key; thus far I'm at 4.5 miles and likely, and totally coincidentally, will hit 6 miles in total.  Also doing the PT my PT prescribed for me when I had the similar issue in my right hip 3x/day.  While out of sorts, definitely better than yesterday afternoon.  On the most recent walk I think I'm finally homing in on part of the problem which lies in my glute medius, and I know how to attack that area.  Not giving up on Sunday's race yet!
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Agree with Mark, to an extent.  If your pace is truly slow enough - you have to be completely honest with yourself here - I would say you COULD run the whole first hour.  But the idea of doing it to somehow get ahead for later is a bad one.  Truly, your effort level should be ZERO (this is a hard zero, not a "well, it's pretty easy..." - ZERO) for the first three hours.  Everything catches up to you in hours 4 and 5 and 6 etc., as I've learned.

Re: your glutes (that's a weird thing to write), have you tried one-legged deadlifts?  I just discovered them today and wow, they target the glute like no other exercise I've done.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:38 pm

Aaaarggggggghh!  Posted this over on the FB V-team page, but want to whine over here as well. 

"Have gone through taper. Have PT'd the crap out of my left glute region to fix the strain I got in taper. Have a hotel reservation that is past the cancellation deadline. Got an email from the race today that it is not going to take place tomorrow after all due to bad weather in DALLAS (the race is near Sacramento). WTH? Turns out the race organizers are a two person team and one has been stuck in Dallas due to weather and can't make it out. They rescheduled for the 8th, so now have to decide if that is too close to my 50 miler on April 4."

Well, the hotel is not going to be accommodating in terms of not charging me for the cancellation.  Boo.  The race organizers followed up with an email saying that there will be no refunds, you can either choose to run the race on the 8th or get a credit towards one of their future events.  I looked at my training schedule and think I can push things around to make it work to run on the 8th, but it'll mean a 3rd week of lower (mid-30's) mileage as I won't be able to fit another 20+ run in before the race date.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:25 pm

Bummer about the hotel, and i'm not happy with the no refunds but I get it. I know nothing about training for a 50 miler, but Im guessing a 31 mile training run is ok.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Nick Morris on Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:23 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Bummer about the hotel, and i'm not happy with the no refunds but I get it. I know nothing about training for a 50 miler, but Im guessing a 31 mile training run is ok.

If anything, this will help you test things out for race day...like a practice run. Test out the clothing, shoes, and nutrition.

Sorry to hear about the no refunds Sad
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:28 am

I don't know what your recent overall mileage is - someone doesn't do the weekly totals thread - but here's what I'd suggest...

Do a long run today.  3-4hr.
Next week, do your 50k.  The whole taper thing?  Overrated.  You'll go into it too fresh and excited and blow your pacing plan, anyway Wink.  Try for a shakeout run Sunday, too.
Cutback the weekend of 3/14-15.  
One last big weekend 3 weeks out.
Begin taper.

At this point, it's all about the long run, so your midweek mileage can probably be consistent week to week.  Sucks about the hotel, but if you decided to take advantage of it and are in Sac, head up to Auburn and play for the day.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  nkrichards on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:17 pm

That's a bummer about the hotel!  Also doesn't really seem fair that they are changing the race date and not willing to refund even the entry fee let alone any other expenses you've incurred. 

Sounds like you have some good suggestions for making this new date fit into your training...hope it works out OK.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:28 pm

From bad to worse.  Since there was no race to be had yesterday, I reconfigured the training plan to allow for it next Sunday.  Went out on my run yesterday and had to stop 2 miles in.  That glute/hammie/piriformis issue that popped up last Wednesday?  Well, I'd rested since then, done all the PT and it was feeling fine - until I started to run.  At first, everything was great, but in the first mile it started to issue me a reminder of the previous run.  In mile 2 it just continued to worsen and I pulled the plug at 2.2 as I could tell that I would only do further damage if I continued.  This feels a lot like the pre-CIM injury which took two weeks to allow me to run again.  As such, next weekend's race is out and the AR50 is dubious.  I've had 2 weeks of no real long runs already, and the next two weeks are the only other ones in the plan, then it is taper time.  I can't imagine running a 50 miler with no long runs for 6 weeks prior to the race.  Crap.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:15 pm

Do you have a 30 under your belt yet?  If you've run 5ish hours, you could probably go for the 50.  Just, y'know, really slow.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  nkrichards on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:32 pm

That's not good news!  Hope this doesn't turn into a chronic issue.  As much as I'd like to encourage you to hold on to the thought of making it though that 50 miler it might not be the best long term decision.  I can't imagine how frustrating this must be!
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Nick Morris on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:34 pm

Well shoot! I am not sure if a 50 miler is I the cards. What is your longest run of the cycle and how long ago did you run it? Like Mike stated, if you got in a decent distance or time, you may have a chance to do the 50 miler...although...the pace will not be close to what you were hoping for.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:16 am

I can't imagine running a 50 miler either - shoot, I often don't run that much in a week anymore.  Bummer about the piriformis thing - just let it heal and keep listening to your body.  Can you make it through the 50 miler?  I can't say, but I do think you might be ready to run that 50K and then try.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:27 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Do you have a 30 under your belt yet?  If you've run 5ish hours, you could probably go for the 50.  Just, y'know, really slow.

Mike, no, only got up to 24 in the long run.  It's really about injury management now I think, so this doesn't become an ongoing issue.  It really hasn't improved much over the past few days, which I really don't like. 

@nkrichards wrote:That's not good news!  Hope this doesn't turn into a chronic issue.  As much as I'd like to encourage you to hold on to the thought of making it though that 50 miler it might not be the best long term decision.  I can't imagine how frustrating this must be!

Nancy - frustrating is right.  My wife really doesn't like it when I'm benched as I become a bit of a grump.  Well, maybe more than a bit.

@Nick Morris wrote:Well shoot!  I am not sure if a 50 miler is I the cards.  What is your longest run of the cycle and how long ago did you run it?  Like Mike stated, if you got in a decent distance or time, you may have a chance to do the 50 miler...although...the pace will not be close to what you were hoping for.

Nick, I really don't feel that I want to do the distance just to have done the distance, especially if I'm doing so at the risk of further or long-term injury, so I'll have to feel really good to consider the 50 miler.  The way I'm feeling now, the 50k is definitely off the table.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I can't imagine running a 50 miler either - shoot, I often don't run that much in a week anymore.  Bummer about the piriformis thing - just let it heal and keep listening to your body.  Can you make it through the 50 miler?  I can't say, but I do think you might be ready to run that 50K and then try.

Michele - the funny thing is that I've been regularly running 50 mpw now for a while.  Don't have any idea where this came from, just out of the blue.  I guess just a little tweak that got exacerbated by the miles or some such.  I refuse to blame it on the aging process, once you start down that road . . .
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:26 pm

Sorry I didn't check back on this sooner. I hope my suggestions don't come too late.

Doing a 50-miler with your longest run being 24 would be a tough sell even if you weren't struggling with what seems to be becoming a chronic injury. With it? You'd be better off setting your sights on a different race later this year. I know it rankles, but there's a better than good chance that starting a 50-miler in your current state would result in a suffer-fest and/or a demoralizing DNF. These distances are difficult enough even when you're in great shape, especially if it's your first outing.

Keep your powder dry and wait until you can run an event that'll be memorable for all the right reasons.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:36 pm

Second what Mark said.  :-\
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:44 pm

Mark, we are in total alignment on this one.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:30 pm

Spent the last week being morose about the injury and having to bail on the races.  I actually had not realized how fully invested I was in the AR50 until I saw it go away.  Poop.  Still not running, but have discovered that I can swim and bike. So getting my antsies out in the water and on two wheels. Managed 2100 yds in the pool Sat/Mon and 10 and 14 miles @~20mph Sun/today. Even just walking I can feel the hip area injury is still not up to trying out a run; thinking I'll give it at least another week. Good I am able to get my frustration at having to back out of the AR50 out via the water and wheels as I think my wife was about to push my morose butt out the front door. Rightfully so.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:49 pm

Injuries suck.  At least there's cross training.  You could always head up to Folsom anyway and ride with the Cycle Folsom group one weekend.  Tell them I sent you.  Wink
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