Building A Better Bumblebee

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Didn't figure you for a country fan, but that's a nice one.

Yup. Broken at the tip of the pinkie toe.

Weird shoe for a week, buddy taping, and expected heal time of four weeks.

I didn't think I'd be able to get ready for that ultra on the Oregon Coast anyway, but this seals it. My only decision now is whether to go anyway and volunteer.

Volunteer or crew for someone.

Ok, I think that you are done as things come in threes - weird ankle/leg thing, flooded house, broken toe.  Yup, done.

If you go...turn the water off.  #fluffain'tnosaint

Jim Lentz wrote:Volunteer or crew for someone.

That was my thought. It'd be nice to just get out there, and I think I could use the karma.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, I think that you are done as things come in threes - weird ankle/leg thing, flooded house, broken toe.  Yup, done.

Done? I like done. Done is perfectly fine with me. Yeah. Done.   

ounce wrote:If you go...turn the water off.  #fluffain'tnosaint

And the gas, and the electricity, and...

---

Our project superintendent spent an hour or so going over his giant to-do list at our house today, and his next task is setting up schedules for subcontractors. The underlayment from hell is going to complicate things a bit, and they still haven't decided to try to pry it up and sand it down, or just saw most of it out and start with fresh subfloor.

Given the fact that they have to prep the subfloor to be able to put in a replacement floor anyway, I wouldn't be all that surprised if we end up with a top-down view into our crawl space for a while. (Lock up the cats!)

Getting some sympathy at work, though my boss just rolled his eyes and said, "Okay, NOW what?"

But you're the former and ONLY Pot Editor at that paper?  Shouldn't he show more respect...especially if you still have some samples?

ounce wrote:But you're the former and ONLY Pot Editor at that paper?  Shouldn't he show more respect ... especially if you still have some samples?

I know, right? Oh well...

(No samples for me, though. Been there, done that, very long ago. Blech. I prefer my cannabinoids to be self-generated.)

Northern California ruined me (country).  I agree with Michele though, it's time for a break...  Bad pun not intended.


EDIT:  Just saw your response re: construction on the previous page.  Try a prybar + hammer.  The flat, flooring prybars.  Yeah, it sucks, but short of sanding the particle board into oblivion, it's your only option.  Probably the worst demo you could do yourself, though.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Northern California ruined me (country).  I agree with Michele though, it's time for a break...  Bad pun not intended.


EDIT:  Just saw your response re: construction on the previous page.  Try a prybar + hammer.  The flat, flooring prybars.  Yeah, it sucks, but short of sanding the particle board into oblivion, it's your only option.  Probably the worst demo you could do yourself, though.

Amazing how many times I've heard, without irony, "Man, you deserve a break!" -- followed by wide eyes and an "Oops!"

The superintendent visited today, and I think they're not going to give us the DIY option. There's an insane amount of glue and staples securing that particleboard to the subfloor, and getting it ready for new flooring is going to be very difficult.

There is one more option they're seriously considering. It probably makes more sense from a quality/time/aggravation standpoint for the flooring folks to just cut it all out (including the OSB) and drop in new subfloor. We'll see.

Yeah, figures.  It'd take you a long, long time to get it done, and it still probably wouldn't be up to par with what they need.  I remember once being on a job with a similarly difficult floor, and they ended up pouring something over it (epoxy?) to level everything out at the height of the leftover junk we couldn't scrape out.  Not sure if they can do that for yours, but it may be cheaper than replacing it all.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Yeah, figures.  It'd take you a long, long time to get it done, and it still probably wouldn't be up to par with what they need.  I remember once being on a job with a similarly difficult floor, and they ended up pouring something over it (epoxy?) to level everything out at the height of the leftover junk we couldn't scrape out.  Not sure if they can do that for yours, but it may be cheaper than replacing it all.

Yipes. Was that on a slab? I can't imagine anybody being so desperate to try that trick on OSB.

I think we'll know in a day or two what their plan is going to be. The flooring guy is coming this afternoon.

I, meanwhile, am perfecting the art of buddy-taping my toes. It turns out that Band-Aids do the trick very well. I can't wait to be done with the surgical shoe, though. It makes me walk like a ruptured penguin.

If I were you, I would volunteer for the ultra race. If anything, I am sure you can still learn something from the experience that will help you race in the future.

In regards to your house, hopefully they will come up with a plan soon and execute on it.

Mark B wrote:

Mike MacLellan wrote:Yeah, figures.  It'd take you a long, long time to get it done, and it still probably wouldn't be up to par with what they need.  I remember once being on a job with a similarly difficult floor, and they ended up pouring something over it (epoxy?) to level everything out at the height of the leftover junk we couldn't scrape out.  Not sure if they can do that for yours, but it may be cheaper than replacing it all.

Yipes. Was that on a slab? I can't imagine anybody being so desperate to try that trick on OSB.

I think we'll know in a day or two what their plan is going to be. The flooring guy is coming this afternoon.

I, meanwhile, am perfecting the art of buddy-taping my toes. It turns out that Band-Aids do the trick very well. I can't wait to be done with the surgical shoe, though. It makes me walk like a ruptured penguin.

Didn't know ruptured penguin's existed, much less in Washington. 

Nick Morris wrote:If I were you, I would volunteer for the ultra race.  If anything, I am sure you can still learn something from the experience that will help you race in the future.

In regards to your house, hopefully they will come up with a plan soon and execute on it.

Yes, that will be nice. (Note I did not use the conditional form in this case. I take that as a sign of hope.)

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Mike MacLellan wrote:Yeah, figures.  It'd take you a long, long time to get it done, and it still probably wouldn't be up to par with what they need.  I remember once being on a job with a similarly difficult floor, and they ended up pouring something over it (epoxy?) to level everything out at the height of the leftover junk we couldn't scrape out.  Not sure if they can do that for yours, but it may be cheaper than replacing it all.

Yipes. Was that on a slab? I can't imagine anybody being so desperate to try that trick on OSB.

I think we'll know in a day or two what their plan is going to be. The flooring guy is coming this afternoon.

I, meanwhile, am perfecting the art of buddy-taping my toes. It turns out that Band-Aids do the trick very well. I can't wait to be done with the surgical shoe, though. It makes me walk like a ruptured penguin.

Didn't know ruptured penguin's existed, much less in Washington. 

Yes, they do! As a matter of fact, penguins are the mascot for Vancouver's own Clark College.

Stand proud, Penguin Nation, and waddle proud!

So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Mark B wrote:So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Did they have any ideas on on what to do with the pesky underlay?

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Did they have any ideas on on what to do with the pesky underlay?

There are only two real options, as far as I know: Either going at it with scrapers, power tools and whatever they can find to scrape it down level to the subfloor or just sawing up the underlay and subfloor as one unit and dropping in new subfloor.

Neither choice is attractive. Scraping will be very difficult and time-consuming, and it may not get the floor totally flat. Removing it all and starting all over again is complicated by the fact that the subfloor panels go under walls, so they'd have to cut as close to the wall as possible, then try to cut replacement OSB panels to fit the space. Either way, it's going to be a monumental pain in the neck.

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Did they have any ideas on on what to do with the pesky underlay?

There are only two real options, as far as I know: Either going at it with scrapers, power tools and whatever they can find to scrape it down level to the subfloor or just sawing up the underlay and subfloor as one unit and dropping in new subfloor.

Neither choice is attractive. Scraping will be very difficult and time-consuming, and it may not get the floor totally flat. Removing it all and starting all over again is complicated by the fact that the subfloor panels go under walls, so they'd have to cut as close to the wall as possible, then try to cut replacement OSB panels to fit the space. Either way, it's going to be a monumental pain in the neck.

YUCK!!!

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Did they have any ideas on on what to do with the pesky underlay?

There are only two real options, as far as I know: Either going at it with scrapers, power tools and whatever they can find to scrape it down level to the subfloor or just sawing up the underlay and subfloor as one unit and dropping in new subfloor.

Neither choice is attractive. Scraping will be very difficult and time-consuming, and it may not get the floor totally flat. Removing it all and starting all over again is complicated by the fact that the subfloor panels go under walls, so they'd have to cut as close to the wall as possible, then try to cut replacement OSB panels to fit the space. Either way, it's going to be a monumental pain in the neck.

YUCK!!!

Yes, I bet Mike would agree to that. I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

If it wasn't for the walls, I bet the subfloor would already be pulled and replaced.

The question we have to answer is what do we want on the floors when it's all done. We had a mix of carpet, vinyl and wood. We'd like to go all wood, either prefinished or engineered. We'll consider laminate, but it would be a third choice. The flooring guy blanched a little at changing over the stairs, but he relaxed a bit after we assured him we understood he couldn't do it solely on the insurance money. I bet he gets unrealistic expectations all the time.

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:So, the flooring guy came today. He was a bit taken aback by just how much flooring in the house needs to be replaced. In fact, nearly all of it was affected. There are only two small bedrooms and one bonus room that were untouched by water.

He seems to be interested in doing a good job and helping us make good floor decisions, which is nice. We will probably be able to decide exactly what sort of flooring will go in next week. That will be the biggest, and most expensive, decision we have to make. Then, it's a matter of sitting back and watching them do all the work. That will be nice. (But not as nice as when it's done.)

Did they have any ideas on on what to do with the pesky underlay?

There are only two real options, as far as I know: Either going at it with scrapers, power tools and whatever they can find to scrape it down level to the subfloor or just sawing up the underlay and subfloor as one unit and dropping in new subfloor.

Neither choice is attractive. Scraping will be very difficult and time-consuming, and it may not get the floor totally flat. Removing it all and starting all over again is complicated by the fact that the subfloor panels go under walls, so they'd have to cut as close to the wall as possible, then try to cut replacement OSB panels to fit the space. Either way, it's going to be a monumental pain in the neck.

YUCK!!!

Yes, I bet Mike would agree to that. I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole.  If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole. If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

Sounds like someone is familiar with the vocabulary of the insurance industry...

I don't actually know which technique would make us whole in this case, but I know that both the insurance adjustor and contractor are working some calculus balancing the labor cost of obliterating everything down to the subfloor and prepping for new  flooring vs the additional materials cost of hacking out the *whole* floor and starting fresh.

It seems, based on a conversation I had this afternoon, that the answer will be a bit of both. Scrape, pry and prep  where they can, but if it gets too ridiculous, break out the saws, cut it out to the floor joists and replace the OSB. (I'd bet money the saws come out pretty quickly.)

We actually have work set to start next week. We'll have an electrician out (we have many lights were not allowed to use yet, and some GFI outlets need to be replaced) and the restoration of wall insulation and the beginnings of drywall restoration. Woot! About dang time.

Also had a bit of a disagreement over how much insurance was crediting us for our old dining area chandelier, but they were fine with upgrading it to something that ought to make it easier. Just goes to show that you can't stop being an advocate for yourself. It is our responsibility to protect our investment.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole. If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

Sounds like someone is familiar with the vocabulary of the insurance industry...

I don't actually know which technique would make us whole in this case, but I know that both the insurance adjustor and contractor are working some calculus balancing the labor cost of obliterating everything down to the subfloor and prepping for new  flooring vs the additional materials cost of hacking out the *whole* floor and starting fresh.

It seems, based on a conversation I had this afternoon, that the answer will be a bit of both. Scrape, pry and prep  where they can, but if it gets too ridiculous, break out the saws, cut it out to the floor joists and replace the OSB. (I'd bet money the saws come out pretty quickly.)

We actually have work set to start next week. We'll have an electrician out (we have many lights were not allowed to use yet, and some GFI outlets need to be replaced) and the restoration of wall insulation and the beginnings of drywall restoration. Woot! About dang time.

Also had a bit of a disagreement over how much insurance was crediting us for our old dining area chandelier, but they were fine with upgrading it to something that ought to make it easier. Just goes to show that you can't stop being an advocate for yourself. It is our responsibility to protect our investment.

Just years of reading contracts and understanding insurance certificates.  And like dealing with doctors on care and treatment, you ABSOLUTELY MUST be an advocate for yourself and your loved ones when dealing with insurance companies.  Document.  Document.  Document.  Because if you ever get into a mediation battle with the insurance company, the mediator will love documentation as it pretty much eliminates the 'he said, she said' part of the issue or at least counters some of the insurance company's documentation.

Find someone that can be your advocate that knows something about what the rebuild is trying to accomplish.  Somebody that can talk and understand the lingo and make sure you're getting a fair shake.  Of course, that cost is out of your pocket unless you can find it in the policy that you can get reimbursed.

One last thing, WRITE to the insurance adjustor and ask him if any of the trades involved in the renovation are required to submit to the insurance company Certificates of Insurance for Workers Compensation and General Liability while on your property and does that Certificate extend its coverage to y'all, the homeowner.  The Certificate comes from the contractor's insurance company, not yours, unless they just happen to be it.Then ask for a copy of the Certificate.  If he can't easily produce the Certificate, then ask him to reply to your email in writing saying that y'all are covered.  Insurance companies hate writing stuff that might extend the coverage of a policy.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole. If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

Sounds like someone is familiar with the vocabulary of the insurance industry...

I don't actually know which technique would make us whole in this case, but I know that both the insurance adjustor and contractor are working some calculus balancing the labor cost of obliterating everything down to the subfloor and prepping for new  flooring vs the additional materials cost of hacking out the *whole* floor and starting fresh.

It seems, based on a conversation I had this afternoon, that the answer will be a bit of both. Scrape, pry and prep  where they can, but if it gets too ridiculous, break out the saws, cut it out to the floor joists and replace the OSB. (I'd bet money the saws come out pretty quickly.)

We actually have work set to start next week. We'll have an electrician out (we have many lights were not allowed to use yet, and some GFI outlets need to be replaced) and the restoration of wall insulation and the beginnings of drywall restoration. Woot! About dang time.

Also had a bit of a disagreement over how much insurance was crediting us for our old dining area chandelier, but they were fine with upgrading it to something that ought to make it easier. Just goes to show that you can't stop being an advocate for yourself. It is our responsibility to protect our investment.

Just years of reading contracts and understanding insurance certificates.  And like dealing with doctors on care and treatment, you ABSOLUTELY MUST be an advocate for yourself and your loved ones when dealing with insurance companies.  Document.  Document.  Document.  Because if you ever get into a mediation battle with the insurance company, the mediator will love documentation as it pretty much eliminates the 'he said, she said' part of the issue or at least counters some of the insurance company's documentation.

Find someone that can be your advocate that knows something about what the rebuild is trying to accomplish.  Somebody that can talk and understand the lingo and make sure you're getting a fair shake.  Of course, that cost is out of your pocket unless you can find it in the policy that you can get reimbursed.

One last thing, WRITE to the insurance adjustor and ask him if any of the trades involved in the renovation are required to submit to the insurance company Certificates of Insurance for Workers Compensation and General Liability while on your property and does that Certificate extend its coverage to y'all, the homeowner.  The Certificate comes from the contractor's insurance company, not yours, unless they just happen to be it.Then ask for a copy of the Certificate.  If he can't easily produce the Certificate, then ask him to reply to your email in writing saying that y'all are covered.  Insurance companies hate writing stuff that might extend the coverage of a policy.

Oh, yes. Documentation. Very important. It helped us out yesterday when there was a disagreement about a light fixture, and how they were valuing it. I pulled up an email (so glad people communicate via email today rather than just talking) that showed the differences and shared it, and the problem was quickly resolved.

The insurance certificate thing isn't entirely clear. I get that they need to have their own liability insurance and worker's comp coverage, but are you saying that liability coverage needs to also apply to the clients on their job site, in the event they drop a saw on my foot or something?

As far as third party advocates go, it just so happens that our next door neighbor is a county building inspector and former contractor who has done restoration work. He's wants to show up and pay a visit when they start work. Building permits aren't required for the type of work we're having done, but he wants to make sure they know they're being watched.