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Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:09 pm

Yesterday was a double day.  I ran 4 miles in the morning at a just-do-the-miles pace, then in the evening was 30 minutes (after warming up) of 'hill work' by running a cloverleaf designed exit of Memorial Drive and Waugh Drive that's about halfway from Memorial Park and downtown.  I really like running this cloverleaf because it's a consistent rise on just about smooth ground.

The morning run was fine, although my shins have been hurting in the early miles, lately.  Nothing that can't be overcome.  Heck, I'll stop for a minute and the pain drops dramatically, when I re-start.  It was 59 degrees with 100% humidity.  The gnome has a fresh battery, so the cadence of 168 is plugged in and ready.  The HR strap didn't kick in until about a 1/2 mile into the run.

4.01 miles, 52:47, 13:10 pace, 140 avg HR, 166 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1.  13:28, x bpm, 165 spm, 72 sl
2.  12:59, 137 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:13, 141 bpm, 167 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:04, 140 bpm, 166 spm, 74 sl


The evening event had a warm up of 4 minutes out and 4 minutes back.  Then, the 30 minute cloverleaf.  I forgot to start my watch for the 30 minutes, but it went well.  I was pushing myself the whole evening because the weather is 20 degrees cooler than September and I need to execute some hardship to toughen up the system.

Afterwards was core for about 30 minutes.




It was an acceptable run with the shin splints going on.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:13 pm

(2nd time to post, so you get to read just text)

Yesterday, I ran twice...4 miles in the morning with some shin splints and a 30 minute cloverleaf 'hill work' in the evening.  Aside from the shin splints, it was fine.  I pushed myself because it's 20 degrees cooler and that allows me to go a little harder for the same perceived effort.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:14 pm

(2nd time to post, so you get to read just text)

Yesterday, I ran twice...4 miles in the morning with some shin splints and a 30 minute cloverleaf 'hill work' in the evening.  Aside from the shin splints, it was fine.  I pushed myself because it's 20 degrees cooler and that allows me to go a little harder for the same perceived effort.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:31 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:Don't you hate it when all this technology fails you...

Way to stick with it and finish up the run.
Yes, ma'am, and it makes me wonder what the real value of monitoring heart rate during a normal long run.  Sure, it's a piece of data used for comparing, assuring, and confirming the feel of the run.  But my ability to maintain cadence is becoming the bellwether statistic on my long run.  You can easily tell when the battery on the gnome crapped out.

Heart rate is good to see early on in a training cycle to see how the heart is adapting to the training, but I have noticed my heart is the first part of the body to get settled in to a training cycle, so its value in the mid and later parts of a training cycle is for anomalies and not a North Star.  I will be curious to see what a working gnome and weather below 60 degrees does for my cadence on the longest runs over the next 9 weeks.

Thanks for the compliment, Nancy.

The main benefit of monitoring HR in a long run matches up mostly with a specific type of low HR training, like Maffetone and Hadd. The goal of that sort of training, as I've nattered about incessantly, is to stimulate mitochondrial development, fat burning, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah...

But if you're NOT doing that specific type of training, the benefit of obsessively diligent HR monitoring gets a lot less clear. It can help you avoid winding out your engine too soon on a longer, slower run -- or, conversely, lollygagging when you should be dropping the hammer on shorter speedwork. But beyond that? Not overly useful.

Of course, a HR monitor can serve as an "idiot light" for runners who aren't exactly tuned in to their internal stress/health levels, but considering the compulsive nature of most runners, that's only marginally effective. Smile

So, are you going to ditch the HR strap?

Good job on the runs, and on managing the conditions.




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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:44 pm

Gosh, hi Mark!  Just coming out from under your birfday drunkenness? Wink 

I believe my heart rate is not going to give me useful data for the long runs, unless I'm doing a bunch of inclines, which I won't be doing a lot of them.  However, I'm not going to purposely avoid them anymore.  No, cadence is going to tell me how the ol' body is doing for the remaining of the training cycle.  Stride length can give useful input, if I want to compare against cadence for some anomaly or confirm how things are going.

For a race, the HRM will provide interesting data like, when my stride length increased, what affect did that have on my HR?

But sometime in February, when I begin training for an ultra that I'm seriously considering doing, HR will rule the roost.  For the actual race, cadence won't be very important, much less the watch, since it doesn't have the battery life to go the whole race.

I like the whole HR training thing.  I started doing it in 2008 or so on the other boards and I think it'll be useful next year.

Thanks for stopping by, Mark, and next year, you'll be able to show your knowledge to me about ultras.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:08 pm

@ounce wrote:... next year, you'll be able to show your knowledge to me about ultras.

oOooo! I'm intrigued.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:36 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:... next year, you'll be able to show your knowledge to me about ultras.

oOooo! I'm intrigued.
Well, what the hell.  I'm seriously considering doing the Javelina Jundred, next year, in Arizona.  The 100K one, not the 100 mile race ran at the same time.  They just ran it, last weekend.  This was why I mentioned in yesterday's posting that I wasn't going to avoid inclines or hills in training for Houston in January.  Further, I'm setting a goal for Houston to actually not stop, unless I need to, for the whole race.  Last year, I walked and ran after mile 22 when I was confident I could get an official time.

The 100K is 4 - 25K loops in the Sonoran Desert.  It has 600 feet elevation gain over 6.5 miles.  I know how flat and sore my feet feel after a street marathon, so run/walking 100K on somewhat, sometime rocky terrain makes me wonder how the tootsies will do and if it would help to bring 2 pairs of shoes.  Altras are zero drop (my street Saucony's are 4 mm drop), so that seems on paper to be better for my feet than Hokas.  Although, I'll need to see how high both shoes are off the ground, since my left heel collapses medially.

So, I'm not going to start training for JJ until mid-February.  I've been told by two people from Houston who did the 100 mile that I don't need to get training on real hills for JJ, as the types of inclines on the new trails near downtown will do me fine.  Plus, even though it's dry as can be in Arizona, the hot 'n humid we have here in the Summer will serve me well for Arizona.

The cat is out of the bag.  And after I finish the 100K, I can heal up in time for the January, 2017 Houston.  Gasps and thoughts are welcome and/or needed.  I still have plenty of time to back out, but I figured that if I was going to pace and crew Reina, that I might as well run it, too.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Gasp!
Gasp!
Gasp!

Okay, that's taken care of....

Javelina, eh? That's very exciting!

I know a few people who have done the 100-miler there. Well, actually, they set out to do the 100 miler, but dropped back to the 100K. That desert course isn't mountainous, but it apparently is tougher than it seems and stands ready to waylay the unprepared. I suspect a lot of folks get fooled into thinking it's "easy" because you're not climbing a mountain and start out too fast, only to regret it 12+ hours later.

I don't think those things are going to be a problem for you. You understand pacing and fueling, and you're picking a distance that's actually *almost* reasonable. Well, it seems reasonable to me, anyway.

As far as training goes, I'd suggest that running and walking on LOTS of dirt trails (and sandy ones if you can find them) will be more important than hills to get ready for this event. You need to get so used to running on uneven surfaces that it becomes second nature. Proprioception is key to avoiding injury.

That and getting used to a bit of monotony, because I have a feeling the scenery ain't going to change much from mile to mile. (Creosote bush,  creosote bush, cactus, creosote bush, cactus, cactus, cactus, SNAKE!! cactus, creosote bush, creosote bush, SCORPION! cactus, cactus, creosote bush, etc.)

November 2016 is plenty of time for you to get ready.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:07 pm

Exciting wasn't exactly the verb that I was thinking of, but far be it from me to lessen others excitement.

I think it's doable, after all, they give you 29 hours to do it.  I analyzed the last 23 finishers for 2014 and 2015 and the average is 22 hours, with the DFL this year was 26:00:25.  The average for each lap was 4 hours, 5 hours, 6 hours, and 7 hours. 

And you're right about the sand and underestimating the loops.  The headline is the 600 feet gain over 6.5 miles x 4, but it doesn't mention the sandy conditions and the undulating areas through creek beds.  People seem to discount the 80 degrees, no shade, and a few rocky spots, plus going out too fast, then the evening temps are 50 degrees.  It seemed 50-50 on FB as to whether gaiters were needed.

What I noticed as unique (to me) is how the loops are executed.  The odd numbered loops are ran clockwise and the even numbered loops are ran counter-clockwise. 

Long time until then.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:01 pm

Wow, a 100K - hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.  When is the exact race? and do you need/want crew?
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:46 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.

Uh, are we on thin ice again? There are only a few of us posting regularly, but it looks like we've got about a dozen people who log in regularly, at least to lurk. Is that enough to keep us going?

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:35 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Wow, a 100K - hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.  When is the exact race? and do you need/want crew?
Yeah, call it a late-mid-life reaction.  (I'd prefer not to, but at the risk of being humorous, I did.)  The race is typically held on the weekend of Halloween.  So, I'm thinking it'll be October 29 and 30, next year.  November 1 is Election Day.  It starts at 6 on Saturday for the 100 mile (6 loops + 9 miles) and at 7 for the 100K with it ending for all participants at noon on Sunday.

Thanks for the offer, 1L.  Really, thanks, but I think I'll be fine.  I don't know if having the ability to rent a tent and a cot is normal for an ultra, but they do and even have 2 sizes...4x6 and 6x8 feet.
@Mark B wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.

Uh, are we on thin ice again? There are only a few of us posting regularly, but it looks like we've got about a dozen people who log in regularly, at least to lurk. Is that enough to keep us going?
Matt paid the website fee earlier.  I don't know if it's for 1 year or more, but it's not very much money.  I seem to think we'll be fine.  Matt will let us know.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:35 pm

Now here I come with a report on a 16 mile run, this morning.  I wanted the usual things to happen, like not getting hurt, a working gnome, and holding cadence of 168.  The last time I ran 16, the gnome crapped out.  It was 70 degrees that morning.  Today it was 54 degrees.  I also wanted to have a low 140's average HR.

In the later miles, I was concentrating on not wobbling on the sidewalk because I knew my legs were going to get sloppy as the miles increased.  I'd like to think that by wobbling less, I'll reduce my time.

16 miles, 3:37:39, 13:36 pace, 141 avg bpm, 158 max bpm during mile 15,  167 avg cadence, 0.71 m average stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 13:42.
1.  13:21, 99 bpm (ha!), 167 spm, 72 sl
2.  13:14, 140 bpm, 168 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:18, 139 bpm, 167 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:42, 140 bpm, 167 spm, 70 sl
5.  13:37, 137 bpm, 167 spm, 71 sl
6.  13:38, 137 bpm, 166 spm, 71 sl
7.  13:31, 138 bpm, 167 spm, 71 sl
8.  13:40, 138 bpm, 167 spm, 70 sl
9.  13:41, 141 bpm, 167 spm, 70 sl
10. 13:37, 141 bpm, 166 spm, 71 sl
11. 13:36, 148 bpm, 166 spm, 71 sl
12. 13:41, 147 bpm, 167 spm, 71 sl
13. 13:30, 151 bpm, 168 spm, 71 sl
14. 14:10, 149 bpm, 165 spm, 69 sl
15. 13:44, 154 bpm, 164 spm, 70 sl
16. 13:35, 154 bpm, 166 spm, 71 sl

The gnome was fiesty, today.  It would turn off, then I'd tap it or slap it and it would come back on.  I'll get another one.  This was the longest run, this cycle, with a working metronome.  After the run, my hip flexors were very sore, which I attribute to the mechanics of my stride and having to do it for 16 miles.  But I know this is good for me.

This run ended up being about 7 minutes shorter than 2 weeks ago in 70 degree weather.  That run had the busted gnome.  The last few miles, I did control the wobblies by holding my path.  I only received a chafe spot along my stomach, where the top of the shorts ride.  I also two 2 S!Caps at mile 9 and mile 11.  I wanted to get ahead of the electrolyte shortage, so I wasn't running on empty.  Overall, it was a good effort.  This coming Saturday, 14 miles is on the schedule.  I'm not sure how far I will run, but it will be more than 14.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:38 pm

@ounce wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Wow, a 100K - hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.  When is the exact race? and do you need/want crew?
Yeah, call it a late-mid-life reaction.  (I'd prefer not to, but at the risk of being humorous, I did.)  The race is typically held on the weekend of Halloween.  So, I'm thinking it'll be October 29 and 30, next year.  November 1 is Election Day.  It starts at 6 on Saturday for the 100 mile (6 loops + 9 miles) and at 7 for the 100K with it ending for all participants at noon on Sunday.

Thanks for the offer, 1L.  Really, thanks, but I think I'll be fine.  I don't know if having the ability to rent a tent and a cot is normal for an ultra, but they do and even have 2 sizes...4x6 and 6x8 feet.
@Mark B wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.

Uh, are we on thin ice again? There are only a few of us posting regularly, but it looks like we've got about a dozen people who log in regularly, at least to lurk. Is that enough to keep us going?
Matt paid the website fee earlier.  I don't know if it's for 1 year or more, but it's not very much money.  I seem to think we'll be fine.  Matt will let us know.
Ok, but if need be - let me know.  I think renting a tent is beneficial as it is a loop course.  That way you have a way (weigh?) station to stage from - clothes, shoes, food, etc.  And again, I'll be there if you need me.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:15 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:
@ounce wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Wow, a 100K - hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.  When is the exact race? and do you need/want crew?
Yeah, call it a late-mid-life reaction.  (I'd prefer not to, but at the risk of being humorous, I did.)  The race is typically held on the weekend of Halloween.  So, I'm thinking it'll be October 29 and 30, next year.  November 1 is Election Day.  It starts at 6 on Saturday for the 100 mile (6 loops + 9 miles) and at 7 for the 100K with it ending for all participants at noon on Sunday.

Thanks for the offer, 1L.  Really, thanks, but I think I'll be fine.  I don't know if having the ability to rent a tent and a cot is normal for an ultra, but they do and even have 2 sizes...4x6 and 6x8 feet.
@Mark B wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Hope these boards stick around long enough for me to following your training.

Uh, are we on thin ice again? There are only a few of us posting regularly, but it looks like we've got about a dozen people who log in regularly, at least to lurk. Is that enough to keep us going?
Matt paid the website fee earlier.  I don't know if it's for 1 year or more, but it's not very much money.  I seem to think we'll be fine.  Matt will let us know.
Ok, but if need be - let me know.  I think renting a tent is beneficial as it is a loop course.  That way you have a way (weigh?) station to stage from - clothes, shoes, food, etc.  And again, I'll be there if you need me.
Thanks very much, Miche1e.  Sincerely.  Yes, the tent rental is great because there is zero shade out there, plus I won't have to break it down afterwards when I'll feel like curling up in the fetal position and cry like a baby.  I am bringing 2 chairs with me for shoe changing.

The high temperature on Halloween was 80 degrees with 22% humidity.  Temps rose quickly and went down quickly at sunset.  As far as the night running, I'll love looking at all of the stars and hearing the coyotes howling.

---
Separate question for the readers regarding shoes.

Thinking of the hurting feet at the end of a marathon, when is the comparable hurting feet on a trail run and how does swapping out shoes help?  Much like rotating shoes where uncompressed soles have just a bit more cush?
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:26 pm

So, I've been reading up on the Javelina Jundred by reading race reports.  I have picked up on one external danger in running the course, aside from rocks on the trail.  Cholla cactus or the Jumping Cholla cactus or the Running Cholla cactus are very painful.  They dislodge extremely easy from the mother plant, like cat hair on the sofa.  Therefore, I am noting to bring on the trail either a hair comb or a Swiss Army Knife for the needlenose pliers.  Here is a link from the race photos of some Cholla cactus, which are the short white and green cactus.  http://www.sweetmimages.com/Javelina-Jundred-2015/i-RkgQ7xG/A


Everybody lauds the race organizers for a wonderful race.  They even have pumpkin pie at the race, plus the usual smorgasbord at ultra races.

As far as yesterday's 16 mile run, I woke up with no stiffness or residual soreness.  I imagine I'll have a little different opinion after tonight's tempo run with a dose of core work.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Tim C on Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:04 pm

On the Cholla Cactus - be very careful.  My buddy used to race the Baja 500 & 1000.  I was at one of the pit stops listening to him on the radio trying to pull those things out in the middle of nowhere.  He was wearing a full driving suit when he drove thru a cactus and he had tons of needles stuck in his legs.  VERY painful. affraid
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  nkrichards on Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:58 am

WOW!  Great goal...thanks for sharing it with us.

Nice job on the 16 miler as well.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:47 pm

@Tim C wrote:On the Cholla Cactus - be very careful.  My buddy used to race the Baja 500 & 1000.  I was at one of the pit stops listening to him on the radio trying to pull those things out in the middle of nowhere.  He was wearing a full driving suit when he drove thru a cactus and he had tons of needles stuck in his legs.  VERY painful. affraid
Tim, Tim, Tim, thanks for coming by.  Oh, YES, on those needles.  I viewed a few videos on YouTube and those things are the most concerning non-weather factor of the race to me, which is why I'm bringing a tool of some sort.

I can't imagine your buddy running in to those things at any speed, even off a bicycle (there's a video of that).  HIGHLY painful.

Reina fell into a sticker bush last year at Wild Hare and I had to pull her out.  So, I expect her to do it at JJ.
@nkrichards wrote:WOW!  Great goal...thanks for sharing it with us.

Nice job on the 16 miler as well.
Howdy, Nancy.  Thanks.  It looks like I get to train in the daylight during the next Summer, after all.  pale
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:57 pm

Oh, one thing more.  Do y'all think riding on a stationery bike a couple of times a week would help my hip flexors adapt to longer running distances at the cadence I want?

The 16 miler on Monday resulted in some hip flexor discomfort after I finished.  I usually don't have that discomfort and attribute it to staying at the 168 cadence for durn near all of the run.  I regularly do hip flexor stretches (on the back, then right leg laying over and past the left leg.  Plus a pigeon pose from time to time).  So, I think the body will be constructing some muscle cells in that area over the coming weeks.

Thanks.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:57 pm

Been too long, since I've posted, but it's been a very difficult week outside of running and should continue to Thanksgiving.  So, let me post a couple of runs.

Thursday, November 12
This was a morning run of 6.67 miles at around 65 degrees and a goal cadence of 168.

6.67 miles, 1:24:53, 12:43 pace, 167 avg cadence, 0.76 m avg stride length
1.  12:56, x bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
2.  12:49, 147 bpm, 167 spm, 75 sl
3.  12:53, 145 bpm, 168 spm, 74 sl
4.  12:33, 150 bpm, 167 spm, 77 sl
5.  12:54, 151 bpm, 168 spm, 74 sl
6.  12:30, 152 bpm, 167 spm, 77 sl
7.  12:20 pace, x bpm, 168 spm, 78 sl

This run was to loosen up the legs in advance of the long run on Saturday, the 14th, with the Team Fit bunch.

-30-

Saturday, November 14
I ran 17 miles, this day.  The Team Fit bunch ran 15 miles, but I've always try to run more than them purely because I think I know what I need to run at this point in the training.  It was 55 degrees with a dewpoint of 44.  A very nice morning for running.  I left my car at Memorial Park on Friday afternoon.  When I returned in the morning, I found a $40 ticket for parking in the park after 11 p.m., when it closes...with no gate.

17 miles, 3:40:35, 12:59 pace, 167 avg cadence, 0.74 m stride length, 1st half pace 13:11, 2nd half pace 12:47.
1.  13:04, 167 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:04, 139 bpm, 168 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:09, 139 bpm, 166 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:18, 142 bpm, 168 spm, 72 sl
5.  13:00, 141 bpm, 166 spm, 74 sl
6.  13:22, 139 bpm, 167 spm, 72 sl
7.  13:08, 142 bpm, 166 spm, 74 sl
8.  13:21, 143 bpm, 167 spm, 72 sl
9.  13:11, 146 bpm, 168 spm, 73 sl
10. 13:12, 147 bpm, 167 spm, 73 sl
11. 12:54, 149 bpm, 168 spm, 74 sl
12. 13:11, 148 bpm, 167 spm, 73 sl
13. 12:51, 150 bpm, 167 spm, 75 sl
14. 12:20, 155 bpm, 168 spm, 78 sl
15. 12:16, x bpm, 167 spm, 78 sl
16. 12:35, x bpm, 168 spm, 76 sl
17. 12:36, x bpm, 166 spm, 77 sl

You might be able to tell that I increased my pace around mile 11.  This was when the faster bunch was passing me.  I thought, what the hell, let's see how long I can last at a faster pace.  So, except for mile 12, I lasted.  It felt good.  I wasn't really huffing and puffing.  My legs were getting wobbly.  That kind of wobbly where one's lateral movement takes a little more effort to keep me tracking straight.

Afterwards, I went to the chiro sponsor massage of the hamstrings where she splits my legs like a turkey wishbone.  I was very pleased with the run.  The Saturday after Thanksgiving is a 20 mile run.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:42 pm

Hey there! Nice runs lately, though the $40 parking ticket stinks. Normally when you pay that much to run, you at least get a T-shirt. (Was it posted? Maybe you could at least talk the fine down a bit?)

I've never experienced the joy of "jumping cactus" but I have read about it by somebody who called it CHAW-ya, as in, well, you get it. Owie. Maybe some chaps would come in handy?

I think an exercise bike as a method of practicing cadence and working on your hip flexors is a good idea. It also gives you more aerobic work with less impact, and mixes things up a bit. Go for it!

It seems that people tend to change out shoes mostly when their initial pair gets wet. Sometimes, they'll change them out to a different brand/style if the one they're wearing has started rubbing uncomfortably. Lastly, some folks change into cushier shoes later in an ultra to give their feet some respite, especially if it's rocky or technical.

I didn't change out shoes in my 50, but it was my ankles -- not my feet -- that caused me problems. Still, would switching to something with more medial support and cushion have helped make those last 20 miles more enjoyable? Maybe...

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:29 pm

@Mark B wrote:Hey there! Nice runs lately, though the $40 parking ticket stinks. Normally when you pay that much to run, you at least get a T-shirt. (Was it posted? Maybe you could at least talk the fine down a bit?)

I've never experienced the joy of "jumping cactus" but I have read about it by somebody who called it CHAW-ya, as in, well, you get it. Owie. Maybe some chaps would come in handy?

I think an exercise bike as a method of practicing cadence and working on your hip flexors is a good idea. It also gives you more aerobic work with less impact, and mixes things up a bit. Go for it!

It seems that people tend to change out shoes mostly when their initial pair gets wet. Sometimes, they'll change them out to a different brand/style if the one they're wearing has started rubbing uncomfortably. Lastly, some folks change into cushier shoes later in an ultra to give their feet some respite, especially if it's rocky or technical.

I didn't change out shoes in my 50, but it was my ankles -- not my feet -- that caused me problems. Still, would switching to something with more medial support and cushion have helped make those last 20 miles more enjoyable? Maybe...
Hey Mark.  Yeah, a t-shirt AND a medal!  I don't think that I'll be able to get out of it.

Chaps would work, but I don't think that I'll go without shorts (this year, some guy started the race in a Borat outfit), it's a costume race, too since it's at Halloween time.

Regarding shoes, it looks like the height of my Kinvaras is comparable to an Altra Lone Peak and Altra Superior.  It appears the Lone Peak is to be stout enough for Wasatch 100, which I imagine is tougher terrain than Javelina Jundred.  So, is it overkill to get a Lone Peak or just try the Superior?

It appears the Hokas are a much taller shoe (31mm) than the Kinvara, Lone Peak and Superior.  I have a pair of Peregrines, which is the trail equivalent to the Kinvara. 

Any fault in logic for only looking at the two Altras?  I would estimate running 1.5 loops of the 4 loops (100K), maybe 2 loops (50K).  I don't know.  Reina and I will be in tandem for the race.

Thanks, y'all.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:39 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Hey there! Nice runs lately, though the $40 parking ticket stinks. Normally when you pay that much to run, you at least get a T-shirt. (Was it posted? Maybe you could at least talk the fine down a bit?)

I've never experienced the joy of "jumping cactus" but I have read about it by somebody who called it CHAW-ya, as in, well, you get it. Owie. Maybe some chaps would come in handy?

I think an exercise bike as a method of practicing cadence and working on your hip flexors is a good idea. It also gives you more aerobic work with less impact, and mixes things up a bit. Go for it!

It seems that people tend to change out shoes mostly when their initial pair gets wet. Sometimes, they'll change them out to a different brand/style if the one they're wearing has started rubbing uncomfortably. Lastly, some folks change into cushier shoes later in an ultra to give their feet some respite, especially if it's rocky or technical.

I didn't change out shoes in my 50, but it was my ankles -- not my feet -- that caused me problems. Still, would switching to something with more medial support and cushion have helped make those last 20 miles more enjoyable? Maybe...
Hey Mark.  Yeah, a t-shirt AND a medal!  I don't think that I'll be able to get out of it.

Chaps would work, but I don't think that I'll go without shorts (this year, some guy started the race in a Borat outfit), it's a costume race, too since it's at Halloween time.

Regarding shoes, it looks like the height of my Kinvaras is comparable to an Altra Lone Peak and Altra Superior.  It appears the Lone Peak is to be stout enough for Wasatch 100, which I imagine is tougher terrain than Javelina Jundred.  So, is it overkill to get a Lone Peak or just try the Superior?

It appears the Hokas are a much taller shoe (31mm) than the Kinvara, Lone Peak and Superior.  I have a pair of Peregrines, which is the trail equivalent to the Kinvara. 

Any fault in logic for only looking at the two Altras?  I would estimate running 1.5 loops of the 4 loops (100K), maybe 2 loops (50K).  I don't know.  Reina and I will be in tandem for the race.

Thanks, y'all.

As luck would have it, I've run in both the Superior and the Lone Peak. I used the Superior for my 50, and I have to admit it might have been a little too minimalist for my needs that day. I currently run in the Lone Peak 2.0, and while it is definitely more robust feeling, I like it quite a lot.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:59 am

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Hey there! Nice runs lately, though the $40 parking ticket stinks. Normally when you pay that much to run, you at least get a T-shirt. (Was it posted? Maybe you could at least talk the fine down a bit?)

I've never experienced the joy of "jumping cactus" but I have read about it by somebody who called it CHAW-ya, as in, well, you get it. Owie. Maybe some chaps would come in handy?

I think an exercise bike as a method of practicing cadence and working on your hip flexors is a good idea. It also gives you more aerobic work with less impact, and mixes things up a bit. Go for it!

It seems that people tend to change out shoes mostly when their initial pair gets wet. Sometimes, they'll change them out to a different brand/style if the one they're wearing has started rubbing uncomfortably. Lastly, some folks change into cushier shoes later in an ultra to give their feet some respite, especially if it's rocky or technical.

I didn't change out shoes in my 50, but it was my ankles -- not my feet -- that caused me problems. Still, would switching to something with more medial support and cushion have helped make those last 20 miles more enjoyable? Maybe...
Hey Mark.  Yeah, a t-shirt AND a medal!  I don't think that I'll be able to get out of it.

Chaps would work, but I don't think that I'll go without shorts (this year, some guy started the race in a Borat outfit), it's a costume race, too since it's at Halloween time.

Regarding shoes, it looks like the height of my Kinvaras is comparable to an Altra Lone Peak and Altra Superior.  It appears the Lone Peak is to be stout enough for Wasatch 100, which I imagine is tougher terrain than Javelina Jundred.  So, is it overkill to get a Lone Peak or just try the Superior?

It appears the Hokas are a much taller shoe (31mm) than the Kinvara, Lone Peak and Superior.  I have a pair of Peregrines, which is the trail equivalent to the Kinvara. 

Any fault in logic for only looking at the two Altras?  I would estimate running 1.5 loops of the 4 loops (100K), maybe 2 loops (50K).  I don't know.  Reina and I will be in tandem for the race.

Thanks, y'all.

As luck would have it, I've run in both the Superior and the Lone Peak. I used the Superior for my 50, and I have to admit it might have been a little too minimalist for my needs that day. I currently run in the Lone Peak 2.0, and while it is definitely more robust feeling, I like it quite a lot.
Then, I'll turn my sights to the Lone Peak.  Remembering the elevation charts you showed, JJ is not as intense as your 50, nor AR50 that Reina has twice attempted.  I'm glad I put you on retainer.  Wink

---

So last week (Turkey Week), was a pretty good week for me.  I assess that I'm at or very close to where I need to be 50 days away from Houston.

For example, the Tuesday run was to be an 'easy' run for 40 minutes.  One of the Houston Fit coaches hooked up with me and we began talking, running at his 'easy' pace of around 11:30, clearly 2 minutes faster than my easy pace.  But I thought it'd be good to see how far I can hold it.  In fact, one of the other runners in my group who is about a minute/mile faster than me was not passing me and dusting me with this pace of mine.  So in the final 15 minutes, I passed her for the final time and worked at maintaining that pace.  Temp was in the high 50's and cadence was 168.

3.52 miles, 40:26, 11:29 pace, 150 avg bpm, 167 max bpm during mile 3, 169 avg cadence, 0.83 m avg stride length.
1.  11:39, 136 bpm, 168 spm, 82 sl
2.  11:38, 150 bpm, 169 spm, 82 sl
3.  11:19, 157 bpm, 170 spm, 83 sl
4.  11:11 pace, 162 bpm, 170 spm, 85 sl

The next run was 20 miles on Saturday.
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