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Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:54 pm

Yesterday, it was 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 76 degrees with no wind.  The idea for this workout was to do a mile further to 8 miles or run 1 or 2 miles.  Well, I did 8 miles and ran 1 of them. It had been 8 days (June 6) since donating RBCs.

The second mile was the run mile.  I thought to do it then, when it was early in the 8 miles.  How I felt during and after the 1 mile run would decide whether to run another one.   Cadence was 120 for the walk and 163 for the run.

8 miles, 2:12:17, 16:34 pace, 122 avg cadence, 0.80 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 16:07, 2nd half pace 17:01
1.  16:59, 118 spm, 80 sl
2.  13:09, 162 spm, 75 sl
3.  16:36, 117 spm, 82 sl
4.  16:53, 119 spm, 79 sl
5.  17:01, 115 spm, 82 sl
6.  17:11, 116 spm, 81 sl
7.  17:04, 118 spm, 80 sl
8.  17:16, 116 spm, 80 sl

Boy, that 1 mile was as if I hadn't ran in a while longer than 10 days.  Typically for the temperatures, my body started sweating as if I was in a real sauna within a quarter mile.  I was pretty glad the mile was over and I was pleased with the 13:09 split.  Now, what was going to happen next regarding my lack of enough RBCs?

Well, the wobbling didn't happen until mile 5 or so.  That's becoming the measure of when the RBC effect affects.  I'm comfortable with the route, now, so shearing is not an issue anymore.

Tomorrow, I will probably venture out into the daylight for the 8 mile walk/run.  I'll have to have my head on a swivel, watching my fellow Houstonians carefully, so I won't get hit.  I'll head out about 8 a.m. for a couple of hours.  Temps will easily reach 86 degrees.  I'll try to run 1 mile, like I did Wednesday.  I won't cover up more so than a dark 8 mile, except to wear a short sleeved shirt, instead of a singlet.  The singlet is best worn in the dark, when people can't see how dirty white the 10 year old singlet is.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:25 am

I totally get the singlet-in-the-dark reasoning. I'd probably do the same thing, though I'd succumb to hypothermia if I did it here.

Good job getting out there despite the lack of blood cells. The muscles still appreciate the effort, even if they can't quite function as well as they might otherwise. If nothing else, it's a testament to the benefits of donating platelets.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:07 pm

@Mark B wrote:I totally get the singlet-in-the-dark reasoning. I'd probably do the same thing, though I'd succumb to hypothermia if I did it here.

Good job getting out there despite the lack of blood cells. The muscles still appreciate the effort, even if they can't quite function as well as they might otherwise. If nothing else, it's a testament to the benefits of donating platelets.
Well, part of the process to re-generate RBCs was to exercise, along with getting iron and binding it with 500mg of vitamin C.  I guess all this walking that I'm doing is a benefit and is allowing me to get under 17 minute/miles on a consistent basis.  Of course, it's on concrete, flat concrete at that.  Thanks, too.

-30-

As advertised yesterday, I started my walk 90 minutes after sunrise.  At that point, it was 80 degrees at 8 a.m. and 86 degrees with a heat index of 93 degrees at 10:20 a.m.  The walk has a lot of shade in it, but when I was in full sun, it was warm, though not HOT.

At mile 2, I did start a run but it was getting too intense about a third of a mile into the run, so I shut down and just walked the rest of it.  I wasn't thrilled shutting it down, but the overall goal of the day was 8 miles and run another day.

8 miles, 2:11:49, 16:29 pace, 1st half pace 16:16, 2nd half pace 16:42
1.  16:41
2.  15:08
3.  16:27
4.  16:46
5.  16:32
6.  16:35
7.  16:27
8.  16:42

I don't know why the watch didn't record the cadence because it was working like a champ.  Again, I was pleased with the times, especially since it was in the daylight.  Look at the difference between Wednesday and Friday.

8 miles, 2:12:17, 16:34 pace, 122 avg cadence, 0.80 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 16:07, 2nd half pace 17:01
1.  16:59, 118 spm, 80 sl
2.  13:09, 162 spm, 75 sl
3.  16:36, 117 spm, 82 sl
4.  16:53, 119 spm, 79 sl
5.  17:01, 115 spm, 82 sl
6.  17:11, 116 spm, 81 sl
7.  17:04, 118 spm, 80 sl
8.  17:16, 116 spm, 80 sl



Wednesday had 1 whole running mile logged in the dark and today's walk was faster and in the daylight!  It would seem that the blood has adapted to walking 8 miles efficiently.  I think that next week I'll increase the mileage, but continue to walk as it doesn't seem to tax the body much.

I read in the Foot book to consider bringing to the race another pair of shoes 1/2 to 1 full size bigger than the pair I start the race with for swelling and comfort.  I guess I should practice that.

Thanks for stopping by and have a good weekend.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  nkrichards on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Good to see you're still moving forward in spite of your RBC setback. Nice improvement.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:22 pm

Much obliged, Nancy.  I'm working at not losing much stamina, even though I've probably lost some running stamina.  A lot of running stamina, but I'll get it back.

-30-

So, I believe I'll be going back up to the 7IL Ranch to walk the two other ~6-7 mile loops.  The when isn't set, but I can go up there once this month, once in July, and then go back up there in August to run/walk all three loops for a 20 mile run/walk.

The race is 3 loops of the 3 different loops.  Think of a 3 leafed clover that I would have to cover 3 times.  The good thing is I get to cross the Start/Finish line 9 times, which gives me 9 times to check out my feet and other functions.  The bad thing is I get to past the Start/Finish line 9 times, longing for the 9th time to be done.

On race day, I wonder if I can run each leaf of the clover the 3 required times all at once, or if I have to run the 3 leafed clover 3 times.

I think that I'll walk 12 in the morning.  Some dark miles and some daylight miles.  Thanks for your time.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm

I was GOING to walk 12 miles, this morning, but at 5 miles, I was getting off cadence which is a sure sign of "head for home-itis."  It was 77 degrees at the start, about an hour before sunrise, and 3 hours later it was 84 degrees  with a Heat Index of 94...at 8:45 a.m.

I figured out why I was getting off cadence.  All of the walks up to today was on sidewalks that were pretty much wheelchair friendly, meaning no curbs to jump and very flat.  Starting after mile 4, I was having to navigate curbs and walk up curbs, broken and yawed sidewalks, etc.  So, I was spoiled prior to today.

I did end up walking 11 miles because I tacked on about a half mile during the last 2 miles. I was going to have a mid-10 distance, if I didn't, and it's easier to talk about whole miles, rather than the last one being a partial.  One excellent thing about today's walk was that at 6:30 a.m., the shopping mall on my route was open with lovely air conditioning blowing, bathrooms where I didn't have to find a fence to pee on, and water fountains with chilled water.

11 miles, 3:06:14, 16:56 pace
1.  17:06
2.  16:45
3.  16:52
4.  16:53
5.  17:11
6.  16:58
7.  16:59
8.  17:05
9.  15:10 (actually ran for a half mile)
10. 17:38
11. 17:35

On a whim, I ran 0.47 mile, wanting to do the whole mile for mile 9.  Some days you're the bug and some days you're the windshield.  RBC is still part of the problem.

Overall, I was pleased.  I see that I'm too comfortable just walking the flats.  While Mondays may be delegated to flat and Long Walk/Runs, Wednesday and/or Fridays will have non-flat terrain.  It could be that doing weights on the legs and other components on Tuesday and/or Thursday could help with this, as well.  Even just walking stairs would help.

Things are still clicking along.  Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  nkrichards on Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:19 pm

@ounce wrote:
On a whim, I ran 0.47 mile, wanting to do the whole mile for mile 9.  Some days you're the bug and some days you're the windshield.  RBC is still part of the problem.

I felt like the bug today...and it sounds like Mark is feeling the same way.  I guess it's all about making good decisions so that we have the guts to do that again.

Sounds like you are making sound decisions and you'll be flying again sooner rather than later.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:16 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
On a whim, I ran 0.47 mile, wanting to do the whole mile for mile 9.  Some days you're the bug and some days you're the windshield.  RBC is still part of the problem.

I felt like the bug today...and it sounds like Mark is feeling the same way.  I guess it's all about making good decisions so that we have the guts to do that again.

Sounds like you are making sound decisions and you'll be flying again sooner rather than later.

Actually, Mark might be the roadkill, but close enough.

Good job on keeping at it. Those RBCs will return. Keep trying running when you can to keep those muscles firing, even if they're low on fuel.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:22 am

@Mark B wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
On a whim, I ran 0.47 mile, wanting to do the whole mile for mile 9.  Some days you're the bug and some days you're the windshield.  RBC is still part of the problem.

I felt like the bug today...and it sounds like Mark is feeling the same way.  I guess it's all about making good decisions so that we have the guts to do that again.

Sounds like you are making sound decisions and you'll be flying again sooner rather than later.

Actually, Mark might be the roadkill, but close enough.

Good job on keeping at it. Those RBCs will return. Keep trying running when you can to keep those muscles firing, even if they're low on fuel.
Well, if I don't keep at it, the universe as we know it will, uh, still be there.

Tuesday, I went and lifted weights.  First time in many months.  Upper body stuff, leg press, adductor & abductor weights and other stuff.  I was even able to do a pain-free pigeon pose with no pain for the first time in a year.  My concern on doing weights is how it will affect the next day's run regarding being tired or sore.

As the day was scooting along, I was pondering what to run and/or walk this morning.  I know that I need to adjust my route so as to challenge the legs a little more than the walking I have been doing for the past week or so.  The best description of the beneficial walking I've been doing amounts to treadmill walking in a holodeck. 

I decided to walk, and hopefully run some, to Memorial Park.  It's not very challenging, but is better than the treadmill holodeck.

-30-

It was 77 degrees with a dewpoint of 73 and a 5-10 mph NE wind as a result of Tropical Storm Cindy.  It's always tolerable to run when a steady breeze is around.

The past two walks had me able to run only less than a half mile, each.  Today, I was determined to run a mile, just to be able to still run a mile.

10 miles, 2:34:47, 15:27 avg pace, 138 avg cadence, 0.76 m avg stride length.  5 walked, 5 ran.
1.  17:28, 118 spm, 78 sl
2.  13:51, 163 spm, 72 sl
3.  17:16, 119 spm, 79 sl
4.  13:48, 159 spm, 73 sl
5.  17:21, 118 spm, 78 sl
6.  13:40, 162 spm, 73 sl
7.  17:24, 120 spm, 77 sl
8.  13:23, 162 spm, 74 sl
9.  17:18, 119 spm, 78 sl
10. 13:02, 162 spm, 76 sl

Being able to run 5 miles today was certainly not in my things to do today.  Yet, it happened and an added plus was the next mile ran was faster than the prior running mile.  That was really cool.  The first mile was certainly a tentative execution, but the determination won the mile.  Truly, walking a mile in between running a mile gives me enough rest to make the running mile comfortable.  

However, as the miles rack up, it does take more huffing to run that mile.  My example is mile 8 in 13:23.  I was about a third through that mile and I noticed my mouth was closed, which signifies to me that I'm running easily by breathing through my nose.  But at what pace?  Checked the watch and it said a 14:30 pace.  No wonder I'm comfortable.  Crap.  So, I started running faster.  My breathing was now through my mouth.  No gasping, just breathing hard enough that I have to open my mouth.  As previously stated, 13:23.  YES!

It's been 16 days since donating the RBCs.  There was no downside to the legs of lifting weights, yesterday.

As you can see, the walking splits were in the 17's, not the 16s.  I wasn't slow jogging the walks in a 140 cadence, just walking at 120.  I thought it best that running 5 miles was enough of a change since Monday's walk.  Being on familiar turf at Memorial Park did help.  My treadmill walking route is still relatively new and I have to make more allowances for traffic, i.e. head on a swivel.  In other words, I'm not completely comfortable yet, so that's reflected in the times.

As for what to run on Friday, I don't know.  Monday is Long Run day, so Friday can be pretty much anything.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:49 pm

One other thing that I failed to mention about this morning's run.  About 30 minutes afterwards, I turned my head quickly to the left and had that weird vertigo-type feeling that indicates that I was low on sodium.  It's something that I have remedied by keeping up the sodium intake during these Houston summers.  Usually a 1/4 tsp a day, but I had been increasing that during the summer to 1/2 tsp a day.

Since starting the 2,000 potassium regimen, part of the trial is to keep the salt intake the same and see what happens.  Well, now I'll have to tinker with the salt intake some.  I did take a 1/2 tsp of salt, with the potassium and other vitamins after breakfast.  Within about 45 minutes, my symptoms were gone and everything is back to normal.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 pm

Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:13 pm

@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:26 am

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Today was a rest and reflection day.

The race is 14 weeks from this Saturday, September 30...the last day of the quarter.

With 8 days to go until the end of the 2nd quarter, I'm 98% healthy.  That's pretty good!  I feel like I have a good handle on what my body can do on any given day.  I'm not stressing it constantly and it likes that.  I think it trusts my decisions. 

I am fast approaching the point where the distances will be farther, the distances will be in the daylight of a Houston summer, and I'll have to be attentive to how the body responds or doesn't respond.  That's a little daunting because I've never done it before, but I am comfortable with the plan of walking/running (W/R) 3 times a week with the long W/R on a Monday, after a 2 day rest.

With the resumption of running, I can work on running under heat.   However for tomorrow, I think I'll just run 4-5 miles.  It's been a while since I've only ran and I do need to keep in mind that I have a marathon in January.  While I think I'll have a good and solid aerobic base on October 1, it's a hybrid.  I figure to have 13 weeks to be able to run a marathon, after the 105K.

Today, I didn't lift any weights.  Instead I slept in.  That was nice.

{deep exhale}

Here we go.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:50 pm

It was 77 degrees with 100% humidity and a light, but consistent south wind.  No wind mornings are certainly a bad atmosphere in which to run.

I retired the last pair of Kinvara 5's, as they were worn out.  I actually retired them before they really started hurting the muscle chain. Very Happy   So, I put into service a slime 'n orange Kinvara 7s. 

I only got 2.5 miles before I had to shut it down.  I think it's an RBC issue, which is fine.

Onward to the weekend!
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:53 pm

@ounce wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.

Thanks for the pro tip, Ounce! I'll get right on it. Suspect

I wish I could try that, actually. My left leg is still a no-go at this point. I'm wondering if the heat impact was more systemic than I'd thought, and that it affected muscles. Maybe.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:55 pm

@ounce wrote:Today was a rest and reflection day.

The race is 14 weeks from this Saturday, September 30...the last day of the quarter.

With 8 days to go until the end of the 2nd quarter, I'm 98% healthy.  That's pretty good!  I feel like I have a good handle on what my body can do on any given day.  I'm not stressing it constantly and it likes that.  I think it trusts my decisions. 

I am fast approaching the point where the distances will be farther, the distances will be in the daylight of a Houston summer, and I'll have to be attentive to how the body responds or doesn't respond.  That's a little daunting because I've never done it before, but I am comfortable with the plan of walking/running (W/R) 3 times a week with the long W/R on a Monday, after a 2 day rest.

With the resumption of running, I can work on running under heat.   However for tomorrow, I think I'll just run 4-5 miles.  It's been a while since I've only ran and I do need to keep in mind that I have a marathon in January.  While I think I'll have a good and solid aerobic base on October 1, it's a hybrid.  I figure to have 13 weeks to be able to run a marathon, after the 105K.

Today, I didn't lift any weights.  Instead I slept in.  That was nice.

{deep exhale}

Here we go.

Go, Ounce, go! Just keep at it. 

@ounce wrote:It was 77 degrees with 100% humidity and a light, but consistent south wind.  No wind mornings are certainly a bad atmosphere in which to run.

I retired the last pair of Kinvara 5's, as they were worn out.  I actually retired them before they really started hurting the muscle chain. Very Happy   So, I put into service a slime 'n orange Kinvara 7s. 

I only got 2.5 miles before I had to shut it down.  I think it's an RBC issue, which is fine.

Onward to the weekend!

Good start. Definitely the RBCs.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:02 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.

Thanks for the pro tip, Ounce! I'll get right on it. Suspect

I wish I could try that, actually. My left leg is still a no-go at this point. I'm wondering if the heat impact was more systemic than I'd thought, and that it affected muscles. Maybe.
YES.  From that angle, the two days it took to get better definitely affected everything.  Your body was concentrating on keeping vital organs safe, then repaired, THEN taking care of the appendages. You're quite right.  Good thought.

As far as the trash bag, you can walk with it on...even barefoot.  Just something to accelerate your sweating.  Be sure to up your fluid intake when you start or even a bit earlier.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  nkrichards on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:22 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.

Thanks for the pro tip, Ounce! I'll get right on it. Suspect

I wish I could try that, actually. My left leg is still a no-go at this point. I'm wondering if the heat impact was more systemic than I'd thought, and that it affected muscles. Maybe.
YES.  From that angle, the two days it took to get better definitely affected everything.  Your body was concentrating on keeping vital organs safe, then repaired, THEN taking care of the appendages. You're quite right.  Good thought.

As far as the trash bag, you can walk with it on...even barefoot.  Just something to accelerate your sweating.  Be sure to up your fluid intake when you start or even a bit earlier.
The neighbors already question Mark's sanity when he run's barefoot and you're suggesting he add a trash bag to the scenario.  I can't see this turning out well...
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:32 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.

Thanks for the pro tip, Ounce! I'll get right on it. Suspect

I wish I could try that, actually. My left leg is still a no-go at this point. I'm wondering if the heat impact was more systemic than I'd thought, and that it affected muscles. Maybe.
YES.  From that angle, the two days it took to get better definitely affected everything.  Your body was concentrating on keeping vital organs safe, then repaired, THEN taking care of the appendages. You're quite right.  Good thought.

As far as the trash bag, you can walk with it on...even barefoot.  Just something to accelerate your sweating.  Be sure to up your fluid intake when you start or even a bit earlier.
The neighbors already question Mark's sanity when he run's barefoot and you're suggesting he add a trash bag to the scenario.  I can't see this turning out well...
He can fall in line with the "Keep Portland Weird" or "Keep Austin Weird" and become "Keep Mark Bagged" and be the neighborhood Bag Man.

I can hear it now...."Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na BAGMAN"
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:02 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Woot! Definite signs of progress. Great to see.

And keep up on those electrolytes. They seem to be helping.

Question: Have you ever had to deal with heat rash? That popped up on me at the ultra last weekend. It was bad because it kept me from sweating, and it was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of days afterward. It's better now. I'd never had it before, but when I pulled off my shirt and looked at my chest, I knew what it was: prickly heat!
Thanks.  Yeah, the electrolytes do seem to help.  When I start running and walking more in the daylight and for longer distances, I'll have to bring some S!Caps to keep the sodium up.

As far as the rash, I have not dealt with heat rash.  However, I suspect a rash is your body's way of saying you're past normal dehydration and into those dangerous steps to heat stroke.

Seems like you and I were in the same shape after our respective 50K's.  The sweatband I wear on my head was completely dry after the race.  I had light nausea with about 6 miles to go.  I was running very low on electrolytes.  I don't know how to quantify 'very low' but it would seem I wasn't as bad as you were.

With Mount Hood coming up, I'd sure get acclimated by whatever means necessary...even using the treadmill or dressing warm(er) to get your body accustomed to sweating as if you were in Houston in the summertime.

In my opinion, you have the order of heat rash and sweating backwards.  Sweating is first.  Heat rash is second.  I'll wager you were in worse shape than I because it took you two days to get righter.
To compress it down even further, wear a trash bag on every run you do from here to the 10th.  Pace is irrelevant.  Aesthetics are irrelevant.  Sweat like you're in the Amazon rain forest.

Thanks for the pro tip, Ounce! I'll get right on it. Suspect

I wish I could try that, actually. My left leg is still a no-go at this point. I'm wondering if the heat impact was more systemic than I'd thought, and that it affected muscles. Maybe.
YES.  From that angle, the two days it took to get better definitely affected everything.  Your body was concentrating on keeping vital organs safe, then repaired, THEN taking care of the appendages. You're quite right.  Good thought.

As far as the trash bag, you can walk with it on...even barefoot.  Just something to accelerate your sweating.  Be sure to up your fluid intake when you start or even a bit earlier.
The neighbors already question Mark's sanity when he run's barefoot and you're suggesting he add a trash bag to the scenario.  I can't see this turning out well...
He can fall in line with the "Keep Portland Weird" or "Keep Austin Weird" and become "Keep Mark Bagged" and be the neighborhood Bag Man.

I can hear it now...."Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na BAGMAN"

Great Scott! affraid

Anyway, if I want to sweat like a polar bear in Houston, all I'd need to do is some treadmill running. I've come off that thing looking like I'd taken a dip in the pool. That's why it's so surprising when I stopped sweating last weekend. Alita says she'd noticed I'd slowed down on taking fluids. The RD cautioned against hyponatremia, saying to drink only when we were thirsty and NOT to a schedule, so I probably went too far the other way.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:01 pm

I think if you're taking S!Caps or Nuun in proper dosages, then you don't have to worry about hypoatremia for temps around 80 for the type and pace that you and Alita were doing.  So, I think it was inadequate acclimation.

-30-

After looking at about 50 different pairs of compression shorts, I've selected one to see if they might work.  If not, then I'll find another one.  They should be here on Tuesday.  If it's not stitched simply of 4 panels of spandex, it probably won't work.

Also Friday, I ordered a pair of Peregrine 4's from amazon.  The Peregrines that I have are the ones bought for Reina's 2014 Wild Hare and the same pair that I wore in April to Brazos Bend.  There a size 12.  The new pair are 12-1/2 and should be a good second pair at 7IL because it'll give me a little more room

I also now have 3 pairs of Injinji socks, now.

I might have to order another pair of Kinvaras for the marathon in January.  I have some time to decide.

edit:  In Nancy's blog post on Friday she mentioned:  "I find the swimming to be a great cardio workout but even a hard swim workout provides a bit of active recovery for me because it's not stressing the legs like running does."

Pardon me for thinking, but I realized the walk part of the 'walk 1/run 1' is what I am doing in training for this 105K.  That may have been obvious to y'all, but I hadn't labeled the walk part as 'recovery' for the run part. Idea  I was thinking of it as the walk part slows the energy drain of the run part.  Thanks, Nancy!

Thanks for your time.
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  Mark B on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:26 pm

@ounce wrote:In Nancy's blog post on Friday she mentioned:  "I find the swimming to be a great cardio workout but even a hard swim workout provides a bit of active recovery for me because it's not stressing the legs like running does."

Pardon me for thinking, but I realized the walk part of the 'walk 1/run 1' is what I am doing in training for this 105K.  That may have been obvious to y'all, but I hadn't labeled the walk part as 'recovery' for the run part. Idea  I was thinking of it as the walk part slows the energy drain of the run part.  Thanks, Nancy!

Thanks for your time.

Yup. You're right on BOTH interpretations. It flattens the curve in endurance by moderating the drain on energy AND allowing the system to clear itself of lactate build-up. It also gives your body the time/intensity it needs to effectively process fuel and fluids.

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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  nkrichards on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:28 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:In Nancy's blog post on Friday she mentioned:  "I find the swimming to be a great cardio workout but even a hard swim workout provides a bit of active recovery for me because it's not stressing the legs like running does."

Pardon me for thinking, but I realized the walk part of the 'walk 1/run 1' is what I am doing in training for this 105K.  That may have been obvious to y'all, but I hadn't labeled the walk part as 'recovery' for the run part. Idea  I was thinking of it as the walk part slows the energy drain of the run part.  Thanks, Nancy!

Thanks for your time.

Yup. You're right on BOTH interpretations. It flattens the curve in endurance by moderating the drain on energy AND allowing the system to clear itself of lactate build-up. It also gives your body the time/intensity it needs to effectively process fuel and fluids.
You're welcome Doug.


I didn't start running till I was older (49) and I've never been able to run consistently more than about 3 days a week.  I just feel like my legs need their recovery time.  Because of that I started using cross training to get in more activity while allowing my legs to recover.  I soon realized that I recovered more quickly when I moved around a bit as compared to just sitting.  I'm learning more and more about how important slower efforts and active recovery is. 

Your run/walk scenario is not a lot different than the interval training we all do.  I ran 3 miles yesterday at an 8:50 pace.  I could do that because it was done in the form of intervals...no way could I run 3 miles straight at anything near that pace.

Happy run/walking...
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Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

Post  ounce on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 pm

I didn't start running until I was 46, never really wanting to be physically active.

I'm sure I'll be finding other things that are obvious to y'all, but I haven't sniffed it out, yet.  Thanks, y'all.

-30-

This morning, I was just too tired to get out and do it.  So, I'll lace 'em up in the morning and get after it.  I've been pondering doing either a total of 12 or 16.  (shhh...don't tell my brain that I'm thinking the distances in how much of it is running, not thinking about the 'total.' it's our secret! silent )
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