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Mulligan...

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:33 pm

Thanks Mark.  I think not having a definite plan is even harder for me than trying to run slower!

I have decided that I should slow down and spend some time on base building.  I'm just not sure exactly how to go about it.  I can't use pre-cardiac data to determine appropriate paces.  I can't use beta blocker data to determine appropriate paces.  My HR is kind of all over the place right now so it's not very helpful.  Hopefully it will settle down shortly.  I'm committed to running in Dr. Beckerman's half in Hillsboro on Feb 12th.  I'm not trained to do anything but run it slowly and will just get in whatever easy effort running I can between now and then.

If I look at the Maffetone recommendation I should be training at 112-122.  If I use the formulas to estimate my maximum HR I get numbers ranging from 155 to 174.  My HR monitor has shown MHR numbers of 175, 185, 188 since I've been off the beta blocker and those haven't been all out efforts.  (I discounted the numbers above 200 as errors.)  Based on those readings Hadd would have me training at 125 or lower...not all that different from Maffetone I guess...and at 135-140 for my initial lactate threshold runs.

I looked at the calendar and assuming I pick a marathon that first weekend in November I have 39 weeks to train...minus a week in Alaska in May cruising with my Mom.  I usually plan for 20-24 weeks of marathon training so that I can increase mileage slowly and adjust for missed runs/conflicts.  (I know I'll have some farming conflicts and will need to make some adjustments for the July 4th 10K and the Mac Dash.)  The first couple weeks of marathon training shouldn't be much different from base building so I figure that give me 18-20 weeks to build my base and 18-20 weeks of actual marathon training. 

The weather is not conducive to running a MHR test run.  A Hadd or Maffetone test is also not an option until the weather improves.  I'm not sure those tests would be helpful anyway until my body has adjusted to the medication change.  So...for now I'm going to continue to swim 3 days a week, attend Pilates 2 days a week, do my core/strength workout with Marty 3 days a week, and run at an easy effort at least 3 days a week.  I should also put my bike on the trainer if I'm not able to ride outside at all.  I'm not going to worry about monitoring my HR during those easy effort runs but I will wear my monitor.  I want to be able to look at the data but I don't want to stress over it during the run.  Hopefully in 2 or 3 weeks my HR will have settled down a bit and I should have a better idea of where I'm at.  And if the weather improves I'll run both a MHR test and a Hadd test.

I was hoping to run this morning but we had freezing rain last night and it's way to slippery out there.  I'll try and get a run in this afternoon if possible.

And life goes on...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:24 pm

That sounds like a good plan. If you're interested in dialing in very specific heart rates, check the local college's PE department to see if they offer physiology tests in their facilities. Those are the ones where they put you on a treadmill and measure the amount of CO2 you're exhaling at various effort levels. They can use that to give you a more dialed-in approximation as to where the optimal intensity/HR levels are for different types of training. All the formula-based systems are attempts to approximate that approach using statistics.

I had mine tested at Clark College in Vancouver a couple of years ago. It cost $100, so it didn't break the bank. It told me pretty much what I knew already, but with your HR data thrown out the window, it might help you more. If you wanted to try the Clark College approach on some trip to the metro area, I have the guy's name and contact information.

A MAF test is best on a track, and hopefully conditions will ease up in a month or two and let you try it. Be careful for the ice! And there may be a bunch of snow on the way, too. Gah!

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:21 pm

@Mark B wrote:That sounds like a good plan. If you're interested in dialing in very specific heart rates, check the local college's PE department to see if they offer physiology tests in their facilities. Those are the ones where they put you on a treadmill and measure the amount of CO2 you're exhaling at various effort levels. They can use that to give you a more dialed-in approximation as to where the optimal intensity/HR levels are for different types of training. All the formula-based systems are attempts to approximate that approach using statistics.

I had mine tested at Clark College in Vancouver a couple of years ago. It cost $100, so it didn't break the bank. It told me pretty much what I knew already, but with your HR data thrown out the window, it might help you more. If you wanted to try the Clark College approach on some trip to the metro area, I have the guy's name and contact information.

A MAF test is best on a track, and hopefully conditions will ease up in a month or two and let you try it. Be careful for the ice! And there may be a bunch of snow on the way, too. Gah!

Getting access to a track may be difficult.  They severely limit public access to the school tracks in today's political climate.  What do you think about choosing a relatively level area on the road and doing the MAF test there.  I'd have to make sure I was careful to always use the same area but that's doable.

Mixed feeling about lactate threshold testing.  Some days I think that it would just be a fun exercise but wouldn't really add much information...other days I think that in my situation in could be very useful.  I've seen articles in the paper about testing at Central Oregon Community College and I also think some of the PT/coaching businesses in Bend offer testing but it's probably more expensive.  I may ask Dr. B if he has a recommendation.  My HR is still a bit wonky at times...it's been relatively high since I finished my run yesterday.  I think it would be better if I waited a few weeks. 

*
Sunday 10 mi @ 12:27 HR 146/159   It was 50 degrees but pretty windy and my course has some rolling hills.  In the past I would have been pretty happy with this HR but it's nowhere near the suggested HR for easy runs.  It's obvious that the beta blocker had been keeping my HR artificially low.  The effort felt easy but I've always had a tendency to compete with myself and run to hard.  It seemed painfully slow but it actually wasn't as slow as I thought.

Still swimming and doing my scheduled core work...

Ultreya...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:50 pm

I only try to use the track on weekends when nobody's around. I think they'd get creeped out if I did it during the school day.

But yes, a flat stretch of road (better yet, a loop) would do. The idea is to create conditions you can replicate for future tests. That way you can measure your progress objectively.

I hear you on the tests. I'd bet the community college would be less expensive, but talking to your doctor and waiting a few weeks sounds like a good idea.

Good work on the run! Your body will figure out what you're trying to do it after a while, then things will start to feel less discombobulated.

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:18 pm

@Mark B wrote:I only try to use the track on weekends when nobody's around. I think they'd get creeped out if I did it during the school day.

But yes, a flat stretch of road (better yet, a loop) would do. The idea is to create conditions you can replicate for future tests. That way you can measure your progress objectively.

I hear you on the tests. I'd bet the community college would be less expensive, but talking to your doctor and waiting a few weeks sounds like a good idea.

Good work on the run! Your body will figure out what you're trying to do it after a while, then things will start to feel less discombobulated.

I may be able to use the middle school track on weekends...they lock the high school.  That might be a better option than the road as long as I don't run into problems getting back on the track for future tests.  I do want to give my body a couple more weeks to adjust before I do any testing so I have some time to decide.

Do I also need to keep my cross training at an easy (low HR) level?

*
More snow today!  We had a couple warm days and 90% of the snow melted but it didn't completely disappear.  We had some minor flooding but no serious damage.  But it's been snowing all day.  We had 4" before lunch so I'm guessing we have nearly 6" by now.  I was hoping it would stop this afternoon so I could get out for a run.  I don't mind running while it's snowing except for the fact that the roads haven't been plowed.  I think I'll opt for a short, easy TM run in a bit...

Ultreya...

Edited to add my TM run.  I put Pandora on the folk rock channel, cranked up the sound, warmed up for a few minutes and then set the TM at a 15:00 pace.  The goal was to really do a low HR run.  It worked pretty well even though I was warm.  I did 3 miles with an average HR of 128 and a high of 152.  Oddly enough the high was in the first few minutes and once it settled back down it never got over 140.  I was wearing both my chest strap that links to my trusty old 305 and my new Vivosmart HR that uses different technology.  The Vivosmart tends to read a couple beats higher but it followed the same trends so I don't think the early high reading was an error.  I've experienced this often and always thought it was an error...or the result of my heart getting excited until the beta blocker kicked in.  Now I'm not so sure.

It was a very educational run.  I learned two things:

  1. If you break out in song at the top of your lungs your HR goes up.
  2. If you breath deep and slowly your HR goes down.  I noticed that my HR was creeping up especially in the last mile and realized that I was breathing like I was running hard.  (I have always had a tendency to breath in rhythm with my cadence rather than when I need to.)  When I slowed my breathing down and took deeper breaths I was able to drop my HR 5 bpm and keep it there for the last 1/4 mile.
  3. Maybe I learned more than two things.  I don't like the TM.  It's boring and hot.  I don't like running slow...My form and efficiency go all to pieces.  My cadence drops off and/or I start bobbing up and down.  But I did it and will continue to try...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:25 am

@nkrichards wrote:I may be able to use the middle school track on weekends...they lock the high school.  That might be a better option than the road as long as I don't run into problems getting back on the track for future tests.  I do want to give my body a couple more weeks to adjust before I do any testing so I have some time to decide.

Do I also need to keep my cross training at an easy (low HR) level?

*
More snow today!  We had a couple warm days and 90% of the snow melted but it didn't completely disappear.  We had some minor flooding but no serious damage.  But it's been snowing all day.  We had 4" before lunch so I'm guessing we have nearly 6" by now.  I was hoping it would stop this afternoon so I could get out for a run.  I don't mind running while it's snowing except for the fact that the roads haven't been plowed.  I think I'll opt for a short, easy TM run in a bit...

Ultreya...

Edited to add my TM run.  I put Pandora on the folk rock channel, cranked up the sound, warmed up for a few minutes and then set the TM at a 15:00 pace.  The goal was to really do a low HR run.  It worked pretty well even though I was warm.  I did 3 miles with an average HR of 128 and a high of 152.  Oddly enough the high was in the first few minutes and once it settled back down it never got over 140.  I was wearing both my chest strap that links to my trusty old 305 and my new Vivosmart HR that uses different technology.  The Vivosmart tends to read a couple beats higher but it followed the same trends so I don't think the early high reading was an error.  I've experienced this often and always thought it was an error...or the result of my heart getting excited until the beta blocker kicked in.  Now I'm not so sure.

It was a very educational run.  I learned two things:

  1. If you break out in song at the top of your lungs your HR goes up.
  2. If you breath deep and slowly your HR goes down.  I noticed that my HR was creeping up especially in the last mile and realized that I was breathing like I was running hard.  (I have always had a tendency to breath in rhythm with my cadence rather than when I need to.)  When I slowed my breathing down and took deeper breaths I was able to drop my HR 5 bpm and keep it there for the last 1/4 mile.
  3. Maybe I learned more than two things.  I don't like the TM.  It's boring and hot.  I don't like running slow...My form and efficiency go all to pieces.  My cadence drops off and/or I start bobbing up and down.  But I did it and will continue to try...


Should you do low HR on cross training? If you're aiming for pure, maximal base-building, yes. Sorry!

HR spikes early on are usually caused by not having enough moisture on the strap to properly conduct the signals from the heart. Putting something on the strap, saliva, water, aloe vera gel, or something like that will allow it to transmit sooner. They probably even make a special gel for that sort of thing, but it's probably expensive.

On the TM run lessons:

1) Yep! Absolutely. Perhaps you can try different types of music and see if it makes a difference. Laughing
2) That's very true. When you slow down the breathing, it relaxes you. The more your relax, the less tension on the system and the lower the HR. (Within limits, of course.)
3) Yeah, sorry. Learning how to run slow is challenging. But if you work at it, you can really focus on form and find weaknesses and improve on them. A lot of bad form can be hidden by kinetic energy when you're running faster. Fixing it while going slow means you'll be stronger and more efficient when going faster. (I also found that works downhill skiing, too.)

Keep at it. You're doing great!

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:13 am

I'll keep plugging away at it Mark.

In the meantime...  A reporter contacted me a few months ago about doing an article about my heart attack and recovery.  I reluctantly agreed on the condition that she make it an educational article and not all about me.  We agreed to wait and do it in February during heart month and Dr. Beckerman agreed to provide some information for her.  It didn't turn out to bad.  Here it is...

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/msp/129-news/344213-223399-heart-health-healing-a-broken-heart
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:04 pm

@nkrichards wrote:I'll keep plugging away at it Mark.

In the meantime...  A reporter contacted me a few months ago about doing an article about my heart attack and recovery.  I reluctantly agreed on the condition that she make it an educational article and not all about me.  We agreed to wait and do it in February during heart month and Dr. Beckerman agreed to provide some information for her.  It didn't turn out to bad.  Here it is...

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/msp/129-news/344213-223399-heart-health-healing-a-broken-heart

That's a very nicely done story! Make sure to get copies to save. That's a keeper!

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:33 am

@Mark B wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:I'll keep plugging away at it Mark.

In the meantime...  A reporter contacted me a few months ago about doing an article about my heart attack and recovery.  I reluctantly agreed on the condition that she make it an educational article and not all about me.  We agreed to wait and do it in February during heart month and Dr. Beckerman agreed to provide some information for her.  It didn't turn out to bad.  Here it is...

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/msp/129-news/344213-223399-heart-health-healing-a-broken-heart

That's a very nicely done story! Make sure to get copies to save. That's a keeper!
Thanks Mark.  It did turn out well.  I'm taking a copy to my Mom today. 

*
Keeping up with the core/strength training and the Pilates and I'm starting to feel stronger.  Swimming has been a bit of a struggle lately so I've slowed it down a bit but I've finished the workouts.  Coach Sara filled in for Coach Tim on Friday.  The workout was slightly longer but more importantly she had us mostly alternating kicking and pull drills and then we finished up with a few faster intervals.  She quickly noticed a flaw in my form and loaned me her paddles so I could work on correcting it.  Sara concentrates more on form than Tim does.  I was glad she gave me some pointers.

Ran 3 mi on Thursday.  Kept the first and last mile easy but included a couple striders in the middle mile.  Yes, my HR did go up...134/169...but it wasn't to bad and it was a nice change to get ready for my race on Sunday.  I'm not ready to run a half...hopefully I can slow down and enjoy it.  We'll see.  To make matters worse the grandkids decided to share their cold with me.  So far it's mostly just a stuffy nose and it seems to clear up when I'm active.

Ultreya...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:21 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:I'll keep plugging away at it Mark.

In the meantime...  A reporter contacted me a few months ago about doing an article about my heart attack and recovery.  I reluctantly agreed on the condition that she make it an educational article and not all about me.  We agreed to wait and do it in February during heart month and Dr. Beckerman agreed to provide some information for her.  It didn't turn out to bad.  Here it is...

http://www.pamplinmedia.com/msp/129-news/344213-223399-heart-health-healing-a-broken-heart

That's a very nicely done story! Make sure to get copies to save. That's a keeper!
Thanks Mark.  It did turn out well.  I'm taking a copy to my Mom today. 

*
Keeping up with the core/strength training and the Pilates and I'm starting to feel stronger.  Swimming has been a bit of a struggle lately so I've slowed it down a bit but I've finished the workouts.  Coach Sara filled in for Coach Tim on Friday.  The workout was slightly longer but more importantly she had us mostly alternating kicking and pull drills and then we finished up with a few faster intervals.  She quickly noticed a flaw in my form and loaned me her paddles so I could work on correcting it.  Sara concentrates more on form than Tim does.  I was glad she gave me some pointers.

Ran 3 mi on Thursday.  Kept the first and last mile easy but included a couple striders in the middle mile.  Yes, my HR did go up...134/169...but it wasn't to bad and it was a nice change to get ready for my race on Sunday.  I'm not ready to run a half...hopefully I can slow down and enjoy it.  We'll see.  To make matters worse the grandkids decided to share their cold with me.  So far it's mostly just a stuffy nose and it seems to clear up when I'm active.

Ultreya...

Oh joy! Let's hope it's not that bad cold that's been running around lately. Enjoy the race!

Yay for Coach Sara! I don't know much about swimming, but I have heard how important form is... and how small adjustments can yield huge improvements. I hope that's what happens for you, too.

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:02 pm

Great article, Nancy.  I hope you don't mind that I share it with Joe.  He is always asking after you.
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:32 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Great article, Nancy.  I hope you don't mind that I share it with Joe.  He is always asking after you.

Happy to have you share it Michele.  Tell Joe I said "hi".

*
Mark...so far it's just a head cold.  Not great timing but it is what it is.
I am excited to work more with Sara and I do think it will help

*
So here's the Heart Breaker Half results
 2:09:01 @ 9:51  HR 164/181  AG 5/10, Gender 58/147, Overall 128/261

And the Hill Challenge results (1 mile hill climb embedded in the half and timed separately)
 9:51 AG 3/10, Gender 24/153, Overall 81/268

Even though this was my slowest half ever I'm pretty happy with the results.  It was a rolling course and was more competitive this year than in the past.  My time would have put me 2nd or 3rd AG in 2016 and 2015.  I didn't have a lot of confidence going in so I tried to pace pretty conservatively.  Considering that it was my first race after tapering off my beta blockers, the winter weather has made training tough, and I ended up with a head cold I'm not disappointed at all. 

I'm especially pleased with my hill climb.  It was from mile 2.98 to 3.98.  I tried to keep the first 3 miles easy and then increased the effort slightly on the hill but didn't go all out.  I slowed after the hill climb to take a gu and water and let my HR recover. 

This was a fun race.  I talked to a lot of the other runners, got a high five from Dr. Beckerman, and survived to run another day.

     pace     HR
1   9:52    153
2   9:57    158
3   9:58    165
4   9:42    174  Hill Climb Challenge
5   9:50    162
6   9:44    164
7   9:34    164
8  10:04   164
9  10:22   161
10  9:57   166
11  9:27   167
12  9:44   170
13  9:35   174
.1 @8:54  179
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:12 pm

Nice work on the half, and especially on the hill climb!

Did it feel different to not have the beta blockers in your system?

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:35 pm

@Mark B wrote:Nice work on the half, and especially on the hill climb!

Did it feel different to not have the beta blockers in your system?


Thanks Mark.  I was pleased with the hill climb.  I put forth a bit of extra effort but not enough to blow up as I still had a lot of miles to run.  It was an awesome event. 

The winner finished in 1:10:42.  He had a Bowerman singlet on.  I know this because I saw it when he lapped me between mile 6 and mile 7.  Shocked   First female finished in 1:21:43.

As far as the beta blockers...I'm not sure.  My HR was definitely higher than it had been while on the beta blockers but I had so much else going on...the head cold, the lack of training due to winter weather, and the hesitancy to push to hard at this point in time.  I'm not sure I'll ever know definitively how much effect the beta blockers had.  It definitely wasn't like a huge weight had been lifted and I could run like a deer...I think I still have to train hard.  I guess I have to deal with an aging body with heart damage. 

Life goes on...just a little slower now...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:28 pm

Woke up a bit sore this morning (legs).  Not surprised.  Evidence that I ran hard but not to hard.

So, I've been thinking a lot about my race on Sunday.  I mentioned earlier that even though it was my slowest half ever I was pleased with the results.  In all honesty, I knew that is how I should feel but I didn't entirely feel that way...until this morning. 

I realized this morning that when I filled in my training plan over a month ago my goal was to run this half at MP.  Things changed and I had some pretty good excuses to say that goal was unrealistic.  Then I realized that I accomplished that goal!  I ran in 9:51 which is well under a BQ pace for me at this point in time.  And I don't feel like I beat myself up doing it.  I ran well within my abilities. 

I also realized that my legs got tired during the race and I had very slight niggles in my right hamstring and left hip flexor during the race but they were barely noticeable.  But I felt stronger through my core and shoulders all through the race than I've ever felt in the past. 

My HR was right up there.  Both devices showed an average HR of 164.  Max HR on the 305 was 181 and the Vivo registered 182.  But I didn't feel uncomfortable at any point in the race and I recovered quickly.

My resting HR has been bouncing around a bit.  It was up to 59 the two days before the race.  I'm pretty sure this was related to my cold.  It settled right back down to 54-55 after the race.  I'd be happy with a resting HR in the mid-50's now that I'm off the beta blockers.

I guess I'm a bit more encouraged this morning.  I don't plan to change directions at this point but I'm a bit more confident that my goals may be reachable.  I still plan to keep up the core/strength work, cross train, and build my running base for the next few months and be ready to transition into marathon training for a fall marathon.

It feels good to be satisfied with and encouraged by what I would have considered a disappointing race even in the months after my cardiac event. 

And life does go on...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:53 pm

Congrats on the race, Nancy. I'd say that all looks and feels normal based on what you are telling us.  And well, it is indeed all about hardwork as you well know.
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Tim C on Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:27 pm

So you ran under a BQ pace and didn't realize it at first?  Nice.  Sounds like things are coming along well.  Keep up the good work and I have to say, I'm humbled by the conditions some of you train in.  I'm spoiled by the weather in SoCal and I'm not too proud to admit it...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:19 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Congrats on the race, Nancy. I'd say that all looks and feels normal based on what you are telling us.  And well, it is indeed all about hardwork as you well know.

Thanks Michele.  Happy to do the work.  That's all part of the fun!

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So you ran under a BQ pace and didn't realize it at first?  Nice.  Sounds like things are coming along well.  Keep up the good work and I have to say, I'm humbled by the conditions some of you train in.  I'm spoiled by the weather in SoCal and I'm not too proud to admit it...


Oh, I've done the math Tim.  Even though I'm still 58 I've already aged up as far as BQ times go.  My birthday is early April so that helps. Very Happy   I knew what my pace was.  I just wasn't to the point where I was willing to recognize the significance of running a half at that pace at this point in time.  The combination of aging and my cardiac event forced me to change my goals quickly rather than over time.  I'm still adjusting to those new goals.  Accepting that a 2 hour plus half was a good race took a couple days I guess.

Enjoy your lovely running weather...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:46 pm

That's why I am in Atlanta this winter - to enjoy the good running weather - lol.

Remember Nancy, when you turn 60 - the BQ is 4:25 - soooooo, if you decide to run a marathon late Spring/late Summer - ish - you just need a 4:25 to be there next April.  Just sayin.
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:16 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:That's why I am in Atlanta this winter - to enjoy the good running weather - lol.

Remember Nancy, when you turn 60 - the BQ is 4:25 - soooooo, if you decide to run a marathon late Spring/late Summer - ish - you just need a 4:25 to be there next April.  Just sayin.

Yeah Michele.  I turn 60 April 11th 2018 so I've already aged up.  Even my race at CIM in December was for 2018.  Technically 10:06 pace gets me there but I figure realistically I need to run @10:00 or better.  I'm not sure I can be ready to do that this summer and I worry about the heat...I don't do well in the heat.  I was looking at Newport (Oregon) on June 3rd but decided against that as I just didn't feel I could be ready.  So I'm looking at fall races that would get me there in 2019.

Suggestions for fall races knowing I'm looking for a reasonably fast course and cool/cold temperatures?  The first weekend in November would fit in well for me but I can also look at October marathons.

I could go back to Hamilton Ontario (Nov 4th) where I got my BQ in 2013.  It's a great course and more likely to have cold temperatures but a little difficult to travel to.

Indianapolis and Two Cities (Fresno) are also that first weekend in November.  They aren't rated quite as fast as Hamilton but don't look to bad. 

Twin Cities has been suggested.  It isn't quite as fast but Kevin's in-laws live there so that would be convenient.  It also has a hill at the end and it's October 1st so I wouldn't have as much time to prepare.

Thoughts on the above courses...especially the early November ones?  Other suggestions for late October?
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:06 pm

I've done Indianapolis and I really loved it.  Too bad I'm running NYC in the fall as Indy is the day before and I would have come as my sister lives there now.  Columbus (OH) is a good race in mid-October.  Both Indy and CBus and sort of flat with some small inclines, just the perfect mix in my opinion.  Detroit is the same type of course as well  (I've done all three).

I've also run Twin Cities which is a beautiful course but hillier (there is a real good climb in the last 10K - maybe even 2 if I remember correctly) than the others above.  Grand Rapids (MI) is also a fairly flat course and a well run race.  The RD is a 50-Stater and he puts on a great race where you get to warm up in a local Y and then even shower there after.  The 2d half of the course is all on a nice bike path and they serve "pickle juice" at the 20 mile aid station.

All of those courses are pretty much back east.  I can tell you that I ran the Victoria Marathon in 2004 and I loved it.  It is pretty flat but could be windy as a lot is along the coast.  Of course, it would be pretty easy for you to get there as I don't think the drive to Seattle is too far and then you take the ferry.
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:56 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I've done Indianapolis and I really loved it.  Too bad I'm running NYC in the fall as Indy is the day before and I would have come as my sister lives there now.  Columbus (OH) is a good race in mid-October.  Both Indy and CBus and sort of flat with some small inclines, just the perfect mix in my opinion.  Detroit is the same type of course as well  (I've done all three).

I've also run Twin Cities which is a beautiful course but hillier (there is a real good climb in the last 10K - maybe even 2 if I remember correctly) than the others above.  Grand Rapids (MI) is also a fairly flat course and a well run race.  The RD is a 50-Stater and he puts on a great race where you get to warm up in a local Y and then even shower there after.  The 2d half of the course is all on a nice bike path and they serve "pickle juice" at the 20 mile aid station.

All of those courses are pretty much back east.  I can tell you that I ran the Victoria Marathon in 2004 and I loved it.  It is pretty flat but could be windy as a lot is along the coast.  Of course, it would be pretty easy for you to get there as I don't think the drive to Seattle is too far and then you take the ferry.

To bad meeting up in Indy doesn't work...would have been fun.  I guess I'll just have to make sure I get back to Boston someday.

I looked at my options again last night and I do think that I'm going to work toward Indy.  It's a good weekend for me as Marty will be away elk hunting.  It gives me plenty of time to prepare.  I like the course.  Not pancake flat or downhill but not a lot of uphill either.  I like a few rollers now and then as long as they aren't right at the end.  It's big enough to provide good support and medical aid but not so big it's overwhelming.  Logistics look good once I'm there and there are good flight options out of Central Oregon.

Now I just need to convince Katie to travel with me.  I may have to bribe her with a first class upgrade.  She's a bit hesitant but I think she'll go.  She has changed jobs and has less vacation time and part-time school commitments but I think with enough lead time to plan she'll be able to do it for me.  Marty does not like the idea of me going alone.

Thoughts on places to stay?  Looks like there are several options close to the start/finish.  Will we need a car to get from to/from the airport?  Looks like a shuttle to the downtown area and then walking may be our best option.

Time to make a commitment and work on a training plan...
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Absolutely Stay Downtown.  Joe & I stayed at the Embassy Suites which was not ridiculously expensive and it was perfect.  Not only did they have a buffet dinner the night before, bananas and stuff before the race and a full breakfast after the race, we were able to stay in the lobby area, use their bathrooms and just walk out onto the street (where the race starts) 15 min before.  We dropped out gear in the tent, went to the appropriate corral and we were off.  Wendy & Tim stayed at a Holiday Inn that was also within walking distance.  Essentially downtown Indy is very easy to negotiate and all of the hotels in the area are easily accessible to the start/finish area (and we ran in 2014 after the Boston incident and it was still real easy).  I like the course a lot - the only "hill" of consequence was around 17 miles (and where I lost Joe) and it was really just a long gradual incline.  Let me know definitely if you decide to run as my sister lives just north of town and I know my niece would love to watch the race and see someone she can cheer for.  I'd even have her make a sign for you.  She has bugged me to run it again, but alas, NYC is calling again.
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Re: Mulligan...

Post  Mark B on Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:45 pm

I can't add much on the old BQ quest from my end, but the impression I got from Wendy, Tim and their friends is that Indy is a very good marathon.

I'm glad you're feeling encouraged as you reflect on your half marathon results. Keep looking forward!

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Re: Mulligan...

Post  nkrichards on Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:30 am

@Mark B wrote:I can't add much on the old BQ quest from my end, but the impression I got from Wendy, Tim and their friends is that Indy is a very good marathon.

I'm glad you're feeling encouraged as you reflect on your half marathon results. Keep looking forward!

I haven't registered or booked flights yet but Indy looks like my choice.  It's a good course...fast course with rollers so I'll be using different muscles.  The logistics look great also.  Staying within walking distance of the start/finish sounds really nice.  When I realized that Alaska has a non-stop flight from Seattle and that first class upgrades are available depending on the day we fly I was sold.  Guess I better grab those upgrades before they disappear.

I did find some closer marathons but they were very small and I was concerned about running by myself, medical support, and logistics for Katie to see me on the course a couple times.  I'm excited about Indy.

It's funny Mark.  I was seriously undertrained for the half last weekend.  I went in with no expectations other than to have fun and make sure I didn't push harder than I should...and look at the results.  It was a very important lesson!

*
Got in a couple runs this week.  4 on Tuesday and 7 on Thursday.  Tried to keep them easy.  Both were at around 11:30 pace but my average HR was in the mid-low 140's.  Trying not to watch it to closely and go by feel so that I don't stress so much.

Had a good swim on Wednesday but struggled to maintain my pace in an endurance workout on Friday.  Didn't do bad...just not as well as I would have liked.

Dusted off the bike after my Friday swim.  Boy am I rusty!  I'm sure my bike legs will return quickly but boy they weren't along for the ride yesterday. What a Face

*
Eagle Bakery group run this morning...
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