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Trails and Travails

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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:17 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:So, I didn't run on Friday. My body was saying yes, but my quads were saying that's hilarious, and wouldn't let me out the door. Let's just say I couldn't even walk down the stairs in a straight line. Had to turn my hips and kind of side-shuffle using the handrail for support.


Haha! That was me all last week! Razz

@Mike MacLellan wrote: Or eat an entire French baguette with hummus, oil/vinegar, and tomatoes, and polish off a bottle of wine. Which we did. And it was worth the pain on the bike.

YUMMMMMMYYYY!!!!! I I love you hummus! Love the whole French baguette, oil/vinegar, and tomatoes and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bounce bounce bounce bounce BTW, love Mortal Kombat! I used to play that with my cousins when it first came out and we thought the blood code was the coolest thing on earth! Yes, I was a tomboy.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  ChasMcG on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:00 pm

I'm excited to follow your training! Although, you are much more extreme than I am. Smile I won't sugarcoat it. You're crazy.

Happy?

tongue

I do have one question since I just started. Are you ever scared running on the trails because of snakes/animals/serial killers/etc? Do you carry anything to protect yourself?
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:09 pm

Tomboy or not, I like where your head's at. I remember particularly enjoying the cheat for MK on N64 where you could turn on "easy fatalities" so that when the "FINISH HIM!" (/HER!) came up, you could just push like 2-3 buttons and do something terrible to your opponent.

The Euro-style recovery meal is our go-to for after bike rides. Sometimes I think it's the only reason I still ride, since I'm never in the mood for that after a run (as runs are in the morning, for the most part).

15.42 @ 7:42 average today. Middle 5.5 were on trail, and the run didn't really become bearable until then. I was super bonky and tired for the first 4-5 miles (going on 10-11 hours of solid sleep for the last 2 nights) but once I hit the trail things picked up. My HR was consistently 5-10bpm lower than normal, to the point that I was running at marathon effort at 152bpm (pre-marathon, it was 167bpm; in the last month or so, it's been closer to 160bpm). Tomorrow will assuredly be easy, and tonight will bring plenty of sleep.

Kept the pace line (in blue) on the chart today - although the whole chart's been smoothed a little bit - because I think it's interesting how much more it varied on the trail section than on the road section. Just shows how much more important RPE and HR are on the trail to keep you within whatever limits the workout calls for. Fortunately, this was just a "run at whatever pace you want for two hours" workout, so I didn't have to pay much attention to anything. You'll see the pace pick up from miles 13-the beginning of the hill. You'll also notice it shoot up for a second near the top of the hill. That's the section that I ran at marathon effort (harder on the incline, actually).

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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:22 pm

@ChasMcG wrote:You're crazy.

I do have one question since I just started. Are you ever scared running on the trails because of snakes/animals/serial killers/etc? Do you carry anything to protect yourself?

Sometimes, I forget that doing this is crazy. Then I'm reminded when people look at me like... well, like I'm crazy. I'll take that as a compliment. Wink

Snakes and I seem to have a "blossoming" relationship, actually. Meaning that I've seen at least 5 rattlesnakes since March and probably just as many gopher snakes, as well. The latter are harmless; even a bite wouldn't do much more than draw a pinprick of blood. The former... well, I've learned to keep my eyes on the trail, about 15-20 feet ahead of me. I never let myself get too distracted by the surroundings unless the trail is extremely wide and clear (fire road) or it's cloudy out. I've yet to see a snake when the temperature is below 75 and the sky is overcast. Of course, the times I slip up and get distracted by the vistas, I tend to look back to the trail about 5 strides before I run over the snake. I swear they're just waiting for me. And they get grumpy with me. Normally when this happens, I do a hop-skip-and-jump as far away from them as possible and, if they rattle at me, say something like "mother fucker, I'm going to come back with a rock and kill you." This is actually a direct quote from one of my most recent sightings. I didn't follow through on the threat.

Other animals: I've only seen... 4 coyotes in recent memory, and only 1 was actually on the trail. I simply turned around and took a different trail instead. Two were hanging out about 20' from a bike path (goes through a meadow) one morning, so I turned and went back about 3/4 of a mile before trying again. They were gone when I returned. The other was actually in the middle of a residential street, just strolling along. He didn't seem interested in any of the passersby (there were a few of us). I see a lot of deer, but have never had any issues with them. Even saw three young bucks the other day and thought they might get a little territorial (same bike path as the coyotes), but they just watched me go on by. I've yet to run into a mountain lion - knock on wood - or bobcat. We don't have bears this far south, though I think they might be at least a possibility once I move north.

I'm probably faster than most of the serial killers around here. Actually, everyone I've ever met on a trail - from mountain bikers to runners to horseback riders - have been really nice and courteous. Generally whoever's going faster or would have a harder time moving out of the way gets to go through first. Then again, I'm male, and I don't look like the friendliest person in the world, particularly when running, so I'd be surprised if anyone were to approach me, let alone try to do anything.

Bottom line, I don't bring anything to protect myself. I don't run with a cell phone, either (I know, I know), unless I'm going somewhere "remote" (at least 4 miles from the nearest trailhead). Then I usually have my CamelBak with phone, food, and water. So far, this has worked well for me.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  ChasMcG on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:35 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@ChasMcG wrote:You're crazy.

I do have one question since I just started. Are you ever scared running on the trails because of snakes/animals/serial killers/etc? Do you carry anything to protect yourself?


Then again, I'm male, and I don't look like the friendliest person in the world, particularly when running, so I'd be surprised if anyone were to approach me, let alone try to do anything.

Bottom line, I don't bring anything to protect myself. I don't run with a cell phone, either (I know, I know), unless I'm going somewhere "remote" (at least 4 miles from the nearest trailhead). Then I usually have my CamelBak with phone, food, and water. So far, this has worked well for me.

So you're sayin' I should bring some mace, a gun, those running shoes with the blades that pop out (I'll have to make some I guess), and a fake mustache? Sweet... I hope I can pull off facial hair. Smile
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:54 pm

@ChasMcG wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@ChasMcG wrote:You're crazy.

I do have one question since I just started. Are you ever scared running on the trails because of snakes/animals/serial killers/etc? Do you carry anything to protect yourself?


Then again, I'm male, and I don't look like the friendliest person in the world, particularly when running, so I'd be surprised if anyone were to approach me, let alone try to do anything.

Bottom line, I don't bring anything to protect myself. I don't run with a cell phone, either (I know, I know), unless I'm going somewhere "remote" (at least 4 miles from the nearest trailhead). Then I usually have my CamelBak with phone, food, and water. So far, this has worked well for me.

So you're sayin' I should bring some mace, a gun, those running shoes with the blades that pop out (I'll have to make some I guess), and a fake mustache? Sweet... I hope I can pull off facial hair. Smile

AHAHAHA! That visual is freaking hilarious! Hahaha! Love it! Chas, all you need are your retired ass kicker boots and you're all set.

Mike - I love the way you nonchalantly said that you have a blossoming relationship with snakes and you have yet to see a bobcat. God bless ya! I tell you what....if I saw either of those things I would run my first 4 minute mile ever!
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:02 pm

Don't forget your stun-gun and a scowl, Chas.

Lisa, the first few times, there was nothing at all funny about those rattlers. But with the consistency with which I see them now - I literally see a snake every time I run on trails and it's sunny out - it's kind of a joke. I think if I let that nonchalance slip for just a second, the reality of how completely screwed I'd be if I were to get tagged by one would take over and I'd never run on a trail again. And bobcats are little guys; it's the cougars you've gotta watch out for Wink
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:08 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote: And bobcats are little guys; it's the cougars you've gotta watch out for Wink
Oh my dear Lord! Be careful out there! RE: snakes - can you buys anti-snake venom or something?
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  John Kilpatrick on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:27 pm

Awesome week of training Mike!

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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:46 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@Schuey wrote:Well Mike I love the challenge and no I don't think it is foolish hat you are challenging me to a 1v1 at WS 100. I think that this is a great idea and I also believe that it would be awesome to go and do this race with you. How fucking fun would that be! So 2013 let's see what we can do. If we go forward with this lets hope that both of us get into the lottery! Yeah I think this would be a blast!

It's on, buddy. I have a feeling this will be much less of a 1v1 and more of a "why are we doing this, again?" race, but either way, the company would be great.

Got an email notification of a training run for the "Harding Hustle 30k/50k" this morning and remembered that there's an ultra on July 9 that uses the course I ran yesterday. Except it goes 5 miles farther up the mountain for the 30k (the last 3 are much flatter, only about 3-4%) and then another whatever for the 50k. Last year, first to the top was 1:13... I actually raced against the guy who posted that earlier this year in a 5-miler. He's an absolute animal on hills, and he won by 3 minutes. I was second place.

Wish I was going to be in town for this one.

Oh, and I hate rest days. Hatehatehatehatehate. I'm thinking I'll end up running a slow hour later.

Yeah I think it's going to turn into one those "why are we doing this, again?"

Your training has been look solid as usual and that Grand Canyon run sounds awesome and crazy all at the same time. I spent about 3 weeks in the Canyon after I graduated from Chico and was heading back to Chicago. Actually I took the whole summer driving back to Chicago going all over the US hiking and camping with my dog Trinity that just passed away in Feb of 2010.

As for the rest days don't take one! You might say what the heck am I talking about? Well I use to plan rest days, now I don't. I let my body and mind decided on when I actually have to take whole days rest from running. So maybe right now on days that you have planned off, if you feel you don't need to completely take a day off go out for a short recovery run to start like 3 to 4 miles. See how that works for you.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:51 pm

Lisa - There's a "vaccination" for dogs, but I haven't found anything that seems reasonably useful for people. Apparently most rattlesnake bites aren't fatal, anyway. Still, I don't want to lose a foot. Had a girlfriend in high school whose dad was bit by one on his hand and lost part of a few fingers because of it. I think I remember his hospital bill (including the medivac helicopter) being something like $12-14k. Shocked

John - Thanks man! Trying to catch up to you. Wink

@Schuey wrote:
Your training has been look solid as usual and that Grand Canyon run sounds awesome and crazy all at the same time. I spent about 3 weeks in the Canyon after I graduated from Chico and was heading back to Chicago. Actually I took the whole summer driving back to Chicago going all over the US hiking and camping with my dog Trinity that just passed away in Feb of 2010.

As for the rest days don't take one! You might say what the heck am I talking about? Well I use to plan rest days, now I don't. I let my body and mind decided on when I actually have to take whole days rest from running. So maybe right now on days that you have planned off, if you feel you don't need to completely take a day off go out for a short recovery run to start like 3 to 4 miles. See how that works for you.

That sounds like an awesome summer, and I'm sorry to hear that your travel companion passed (somewhat) recently. Must've been a hard month. I had planned on doing something like that this summer, but I don't have a dog of my own (family has 3, but I don't have any real bond with any of them anymore) and I know I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much completely alone. And we all know how relying on other people goes...

You know, I'm actually on board with you regarding rest days. The training plans I've seen for ultras suggest a double-long weekend sandwiched by two complete rest days, but I'm thinking I won't need quite that much. If anything, a bike spin or a couple miles on my feet on Mondays will help to flush the legs out (like the ride did yesterday, despite it being much harder than a recovery ride). Fridays will be largely dependent on how good I feel going into what I'm sure will become suffer-fest weekends. But yes, I completely agree that a few miles would likely do me better than complete rest, if it's just my legs that are complaining. I'll report in if/when I decide to switch things up a bit.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mark B on Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:33 pm

Coyotes and rattlers and bobcats, oh my!

I'm trying to puzzle out exactly where your routes are taking you right now, Mike. Are you running up into the Ortegas, or have you moved north yet?

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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  ChasMcG on Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:23 pm

[quote="Mrs. Schuey"]
@ChasMcG wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:
@ChasMcG wrote:You're crazy.

I do have one question since I just started. Are you ever scared running on the trails because of snakes/animals/serial killers/etc? Do you carry anything to protect yourself?



So you're sayin' I should bring some mace, a gun, those running shoes with the blades that pop out (I'll have to make some I guess), and a fake mustache? Sweet... I hope I can pull off facial hair. Smile

AHAHAHA! That visual is freaking hilarious! Hahaha! Love it! Chas, all you need are your retired ass kicker boots and you're all set.

quote]

Oh hell yeah! No one would mess with me! Of course, I wouldn't be able to lift those big ol' things once I stepped in mud. I barely made it in the sand haha

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Don't forget your stun-gun and a scowl, Chas.

Lisa, the first few times, there was nothing at all funny about those rattlers. But with the consistency with which I see them now - I literally see a snake every time I run on trails and it's sunny out - it's kind of a joke. I think if I let that nonchalance slip for just a second, the reality of how completely screwed I'd be if I were to get tagged by one would take over and I'd never run on a trail again. And bobcats are little guys; it's the cougars you've gotta watch out for Wink

True that. I ran into some cougars over the weekend. Do they all bedazzle their shirts now? Wait...what are we talking about? tongue
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Natalie on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:18 pm

I didn't realize until reading Chas' post on critters and then looking at your location that your from Orange County. I'm totally with her on being worried about wildlife. I ran on a gorgeous trail in OC several years ago and all I could think about were mountain lions!
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:58 pm

Chas - not only that, but they also like to walk with their dogs on those long retractable leashes so there's no possible way to pass on a trail/path. Or they buy you beer at a bar and sit on your lap after you've repeatedly said, "No, I have a girlfriend." pale

Natalie - Orange County indeed. Do you remember what trail you ran? Or the area at all? I'm guessing it was either really close to me or it was near Moro/Crystal Cove.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:38 pm

@ChasMcG wrote:

True that. I ran into some cougars over the weekend. Do they all bedazzle their shirts now? Wait...what are we talking about? tongue

lol! lol! lol! lol!
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Shoot, overlooked your post, Mark. I'm running in the foothills near Rancho Santa Margarita/Santiago/Silverado. Also, some of the trails parallel streets (such as Antonio Parkway) and neighborhoods (like the one between Dove Canyon and Coto de Caza - heads towards Caspers Park, which is the one I ran on today).
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Neil Ruggiero on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:17 am

People have got trail fever! I have to admit, they're a lot more fun than roads, and I can't believe it took me this long to get out there on the trails more often.

Keep up the good work Mike, and I'm sure someday we'll work out an ultra together Smile
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Peg Coover on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:14 am

Your posts are very entertaining!

We have something in common: love of cooking and entertaining, and drinking! It's just Jim and me at home now, so when I cook, I can't just cook for the two of us, I invite friends over. Then we drink too, beer, wine, or whatever. Since it's summer break for me, I can do this any night of the week! Jim doesn't appreciate that much....Sigh!
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Ken Mello on Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:44 am

Its funny, because we have a lot of rattlesnakes here as well, especially on the local trails during the summer, but my choice in that instance is to NOT run on those trails. Laughing

And as someone now living in the flatlands of Central Texas, those elevations dont even make sense to me....
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:04 pm

@Neil Ruggiero wrote:People have got trail fever! I have to admit, they're a lot more fun than roads, and I can't believe it took me this long to get out there on the trails more often.

Keep up the good work Mike, and I'm sure someday we'll work out an ultra together Smile

My trail fever started back in... March, I think. But I held it off until after the marathon. Now that the legs are back in full, I'm letting it go rampant.
And re: an ultra together - I apologize for sucking this summer. That whole depending-on-people-to-actually-follow-through-with-their-plans things still hasn't quite worked out at all. I'll just make the excuse that I'm letting you get your mileage back where you want it, first. Wink

@Peg Coover wrote:Your posts are very entertaining!

We have something in common: love of cooking and entertaining, and drinking! It's just Jim and me at home now, so when I cook, I can't just cook for the two of us, I invite friends over. Then we drink too, beer, wine, or whatever. Since it's summer break for me, I can do this any night of the week! Jim doesn't appreciate that much....Sigh!

Glad you're enjoying my frivolity as much as I am. I do love cooking and entertaining quite a bit, but I do not like when I forget that cooking for 8-12 requires more time and forethought than cooking for 1-2. Actually, I prefer cooking for 2 the most, but I enjoy the company and excuse to have a bottle of wine to myself when more are around. So either way, it's a win-win.

@Ken Mello wrote:Its funny, because we have a lot of rattlesnakes here as well, especially on the local trails during the summer, but my choice in that instance is to NOT run on those trails. Laughing

And as someone now living in the flatlands of Central Texas, those elevations dont even make sense to me....

Believe it or not, I avoid the areas most commonly frequented by rattlers. Yesterday's trail, for example, was where I saw the first one, and I haven't been back there since (until yesterday). And I only went to that one because it was cloudy and I knew they wouldn't be out.

The elevation chart from yesterday is slightly misleading. The big climb on either side of the run is only ~2-2.5% average... But the trail section in the middle has some grades of 7-8%. They're just shorter. The mountain run from last week, however, is a solid 9% for 4 miles. Ouch.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mark B on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:19 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Shoot, overlooked your post, Mark. I'm running in the foothills near Rancho Santa Margarita/Santiago/Silverado. Also, some of the trails parallel streets (such as Antonio Parkway) and neighborhoods (like the one between Dove Canyon and Coto de Caza - heads towards Caspers Park, which is the one I ran on today).

No kidding? Crimminy! You are literally as close as you could be to where I used to live and still be on the west side of the Santa Ana Mountains. Dove part is less than 11 miles from my old house (as the crow flies, just on the other side of the mountains). There are some pretty notorious ultra runs up in those mountains, too: Old Goat Trail Races.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:25 pm

How funny that you posted that link: the 50-miler follows the same trail as the Saddleback Mountain Marathon, which I was planning on running before I found out I was headed north. I've hiked the trail from the Holy Jim trailhead to the peak of Santiago, a number of times, too. Ran to Bear Springs and back once, as well. Really beautiful singletrack, especially when you're halfway up the switchbacks and turn around to see absolutely no sign of suburbia. It's a completely different world back there. Ah, old stomping grounds.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Mark B on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:32 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:How funny that you posted that link: the 50-miler follows the same trail as the Saddleback Mountain Marathon, which I was planning on running before I found out I was headed north. I've hiked the trail from the Holy Jim trailhead to the peak of Santiago, a number of times, too. Ran to Bear Springs and back once, as well. Really beautiful singletrack, especially when you're halfway up the switchbacks and turn around to see absolutely no sign of suburbia. It's a completely different world back there. Ah, old stomping grounds.

Heh. When I moved to Lake Elsinore, I had a vague thought that the mountains would be a good place to hike/trail run, but I never gave it at try. Now I'd like to head back there some day for a visit and actually run one of those trail events. It's funny how things change.
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Re: Trails and Travails

Post  Tom H on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:47 am

@Mark B wrote:
@Mike MacLellan wrote:How funny that you posted that link: the 50-miler follows the same trail as the Saddleback Mountain Marathon, which I was planning on running before I found out I was headed north. I've hiked the trail from the Holy Jim trailhead to the peak of Santiago, a number of times, too. Ran to Bear Springs and back once, as well. Really beautiful singletrack, especially when you're halfway up the switchbacks and turn around to see absolutely no sign of suburbia. It's a completely different world back there. Ah, old stomping grounds.

Heh. When I moved to Lake Elsinore, I had a vague thought that the mountains would be a good place to hike/trail run, but I never gave it at try. Now I'd like to head back there some day for a visit and actually run one of those trail events. It's funny how things change.

You guys are killin' me with all the great nature commentary. But I kinda get the feeling that trail running in wooded hilly areas wouldn't work well with anal LHR training; would kind ruin the whole experience. *Sigh* Maybe next cycle . . .
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Re: Trails and Travails

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