Getting way ahead of myself: Pfitz 18/70?

Let's assume I get into Boston. Hell, let's assume I don't, too. Either way, I'll be running a marathon in mid-April to mid-May. And I want to (will) PR, hopefully going sub-3 (I know, that's a lot to ask on Boston's course).

As some of you know, I'm currently training for a 50-miler; my average weekly mileage for the whole cycle (24 weeks) will be 81 miles, with the last 15 weeks pre-taper averaging 95. To be honest, I think I'll be sick of doing doubles 4x/week by the time December rolls around, and I won't want to be doing them as often through the winter. So I've been looking into Pfitz.

I know he has a 12 and 18 week program for the 70 mile range, so I'd be splitting the difference if I trained on it for Boston (15 weeks) and would be able to do the whole 18 if I didn't get in and did, say, OC instead. All of this said...

Think this program will be a good baseline to follow for what I want to accomplish? I'll be adding in plenty of hill work, of course, likely on the GA/sorta-long days. Thoughts, comments, concerns, etc., all welcomed.

I use pfitz's program for past few cycles but have tweaked it will hill work and progression runs etc. I find his program to work well for me although this cycle I did switch a bit and did vo2max earlier and tempo's will do now later in schedule (this may work well for me).

I think with the less mileage and maybe more speed work you should fair well with his training coming off some heavy mileage. 15 or 18 weeks you can easily adjust.

I really like his 18/55 program I'm doing now and have added in days here and there to give me just one day off a week instead of two, but I will say it has been a good program for me. We'll see what happens on race day but it's given me a good variety of speed work and med-long runs and long runs. All that to say, if the 55 program is good, I'm sure the 70 is, too.

Aren't you running more than 70mpw, Mike?

The program focuses on more mileage. If you are used to 70, it seems not enough for you with its low intensity. You probably need Dave-O kind of torture program.

Is that another name for Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathon program? Because I looked at that one and it looked quite intense.
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=4432&PageNum=5

but then again, for you it might seem too easy.

Jerry - I was kind of thinking that myself, considering that most of the miles are split between recovery and LSD-style long runs... And I don't have much trouble with either of those. Maybe I'll just start incorporating two workouts into the weekly schedule instead of focusing purely on mileage...

IMO, Pfitz is the best program out there to boost one's endurance. For anyone struggling to up their milegae, or to get their marathon time to match their shorter races times, Pfitz is great. His 70+ program got me into the 2:40's.

It is light on workouts, however. Given that your mileage is already in the 80-90 range consistently, if you drop the mileage to 60-70, I'm thinking you'll want to increase the intensity a bit. Especially if you're seeking sub-3.

I'd be happy to discuss with you more detail when I have the book in front of me, but you can easily add to his program to increase the quality. A couple of quick ideas: increase the length of tempo runs, as too many of them are capped at 4; turn the MLRs into fast finishes; include farltek into the GAs. You get the idea.

All that being said - Stop looking so far ahead! When you're in the midst of one training cycle, looking ahead to the next is going to sound exhausting. Don't fall into that trap. Focus on this one. THEN, focus on adequate recovery. THEN worry about the next one.

Dave-O wrote:IMO, Pfitz is the best program out there to boost one's endurance. For anyone struggling to up their milegae, or to get their marathon time to match their shorter races times, Pfitz is great. His 70+ program got me into the 2:40's.

It is light on workouts, however. Given that your mileage is already in the 80-90 range consistently, if you drop the mileage to 60-70, I'm thinking you'll want to increase the intensity a bit. Especially if you're seeking sub-3.

I'd be happy to discuss with you more detail when I have the book in front of me, but you can easily add to his program to increase the quality. A couple of quick ideas: increase the length of tempo runs, as too many of them are capped at 4; turn the MLRs into fast finishes; include farltek into the GAs. You get the idea.

All that being said - Stop looking so far ahead! When you're in the midst of one training cycle, looking ahead to the next is going to sound exhausting. Don't fall into that trap. Focus on this one. THEN, focus on adequate recovery. THEN worry about the next one.

Thanks for the insights, Dave! I know, I know, I'm getting way ahead of myself with this. I don't even know if I'll get into Boston to begin with or if I'll want to go back to road marathons after December. Just something that came up while perusing the internet. I think I have Pfitz's book, too, just not with me, so I'll make sure to get it sent up here before I approach you for more advice