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Uphill climb part 2

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Julie on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:51 pm

I hope you heal up quickly. Sorry about the injury but I'm glad you had a good PT who could help you figure out some of the causes.

Rest up as much as you need to and if this marathon doesn't happy, I'm sorry, but truly there are many other marathons, many more opportunities to safely train for another one.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:52 pm

jon c wrote:Another issue to consider might be the heel strike issue that the pic so clearly indicates. I'm not an animal on this, however if a person can work on turning this into a mid foot strike, it will greatly lessen the shock stress on your joints.

One other thing you might consider is to take a couple tenths of a mile and run backwards each run (outdoors anyway). It may sound strange and you might get some looks from folks, but working the muscles in a different or opposing way reminds the body that the other muscles can contract and not remain passive all the time.

Edit to add: Know this won't make you feel any better but I was glad to see that Nebraska wasn't the only team in the bowl season that couldn't get out of it's own way.

Thanks Jon - good suggestion on running - I usually am not THAT bad, but when I start to get tired I think I make it a lot worse with the heel striking. As bad as it looks, with time I actually have gotten a little better - hard to believe I know...

And I was rooting for Nebraska too. Yet another embarrassing loss for my beloved CHokies...

Dave-O wrote:I hope this isn't directed at me, because I don't feel that any of my time was wasted. You were making great progress and absolutely crushing training. Injuries happen. My hip gave out last year and I still don't know why.

I wish I could help more in your rehab, but that's definitely not an area I am very knowledgeable about. I know you're busting your butt to get healthy again!

Thanks Dave - I guess it is what it is. I thought the same thing - we were having a good run there and I now know that I'm capable of more - when I get going again it gives me something to look forward to. I really do appreciate your efforts - I've gotten faster as I go with training, but for the first time I could actually FEEL myself getting faster as we were moving along. I'll be back, question is just how long. I guess I didn't realize about your hip thing, but you bounced back none the worse for wear. I'll get there.....


It's been sort of tough this week - trying to keep my head in the game with not running and a family issue - my brother went into the hospital last week and I'm skipping details here but was in really bad shape and ended up having an emergency surgery - colon removal and colostomy the end result. Lost a lot of blood and lost hair, weight, etc. Really a bummer deal. I feel bad for him and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. End result is that he had a successful surgery and is in a painful recovery now, but will be better in the long run. Went to see him this weekend and missed my usual Saturday ride, but managed to get in a long "run" (elliptical) on Sunday. He isn't alone as I have other family close by, so he will OK in that regard. Makes me feel grateful for my health. I feel better now after seeing him even though he was in extreme pain and extreme circumstances. He has a good Dr. looking after him so that is something to be glad for.

Sundays long run was different - I really busted butt on the elliptical for 3 hours - the machine claims I did 23.52 miles, but I don't know what that actually means. I do know that was a long effort which left my legs on the razor's edge of cramping up and dropping me to the ground after I stepped off the machine. I recovered quickly (today felt OK) but it was a good workout anyway - felt like a long run at a good clip.

Drove home with my boy today and did a 23 mile bike ride at about 21.5 mph.

I'm treating this week sort of like a stepback week in training. I'll do a "tempo run" workout at a spin class on Wednesday and just go hard for 45 minutes.

Leg continues to feel better, but I'm being really careful and am not going to push into running for another week. Then my plan is to just really easily test it out again and see where I stand.

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Schuey on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:37 pm

John I guess the best advice I can give you is keep your head-up! Really that is all you can do other than have confidence and faith that you will figure everything out and learn what to do better in the future.

Trust me I have been there and done it and still have things come up. There was a period between 2006 all the way through the spring of 08 were I just battled a string of injuries and that is including 3 stress fractures.

Just hang in there buddy and don't beat yourself up that is the worst thing you can do. What I learned in the past was first let anrgy have it's place but then come to terms really fast about your injury and that is when the healing process will start. As you rehab that leg just keeping do whatever cross training you can do. Trust me you may not think that your fitness is gettng better or stay fit but it is. I did 98% of my 2008 Boston training in the pool and to this day I have to admit that I fit the fits in my running career at that time.

So keep a positive attitude imbrace your injury and rehab it, keep crossing training and once you hit the roads again your cardo will be there it will only be a matter of a week or so for you legs to get use to the pounding. Again I ran Boston in 08 it wasn't my best race but it wasn't my worst race but I did still run it 7mins faster then the year before.

So keep the faith and everything will come together.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:00 pm

John,

Read the whole 5 pages. Injuries suck. If you haven't given yoga a shot, I'd try it. This past summer, I tried it for the first time. Reina had mentioned it a couple of years ago for her back pain.

But I live in Texas and have for most of my life. So, yoga, well, I don't think so. I have no desire to be converted.

This past summer, I tried it. It helped me on stretching out muscles and flexibility. One hour a week for about 8 weeks and I noticed the difference on long runs. And no one is trying to convert me. It's a win-win! But some of those positions are really funny looking.

Good luck on your attempts.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Schuey wrote:So keep the faith and everything will come together.

Thanks Schuey - it feels pretty lonely when things are not going as planned. I need to refocus, which is hard but I need to move forward the best I can.

ounce wrote:Good luck on your attempts.
Thanks - I appreciate it - I might end up there (yoga) but, for now, I am trying to really stretch more than I have in the past.



I'm done for the marathon. Couldn't run 1/3 mile without pain on Monday. Can't cry about it so I've got to move on. Feeling a little lost right now - can't run and the ironman is in November - lot of work to do between now and then and I'm honestly concerned about my ability to even run this spring/summer - things haven't improved much and it's been over a month now since I strained the hf. All I can do is swim/cycle and work on flexibility and maybe incorporate strength training in lieu of running.

Went swimming today for the first time since my September HIM. Holy cow, I sucked it up today. Can't believe how slow I was and how much swimming fitness I lost. My shoulder and neck muscles really were angry with me for not swimming at all for 4 months Exclamation

Swam 2600 yds (~1.5 miles) in 49:35 at a pace of 1:54/100 yds. I've got to get that much better, but I have some time to work on it...

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Damn, man, so frustrating to hear that. At this point, I would scrap just about everything for a couple weeks. You will go stir-crazy, but your body will thank you for the break. Then start in with some really easy riding and swimming and let it build from there. Definitely what I should've done with my knee, but I pushed it and was out of commission for a full month with the 2 before that being more or less worthless training. Hang in there. You've got a BQ in you, and you'll get to it someday.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:45 pm

Sorry to hear this John. Just wanted you to know that you are joining a very elite club - so smile!
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Julie on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:58 pm

Sorry about the pain, I agree you'd probably be smart just to take what time off you need to and let it completely heal and then just try not to worry about what later this year might hold.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:26 am

Sorry, John. Been there, done that.

Wait. Am there, doing that! (Elite company, indeed, Michele!)

Don't ever give up. Your body will heal, your problems will resolve, and you will be able to move on and improve.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:44 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:Damn, man, so frustrating to hear that. At this point, I would scrap just about everything for a couple weeks. You will go stir-crazy, but your body will thank you for the break. Then start in with some really easy riding and swimming and let it build from there. Definitely what I should've done with my knee, but I pushed it and was out of commission for a full month with the 2 before that being more or less worthless training. Hang in there. You've got a BQ in you, and you'll get to it someday.
Thanks Mike - I am obviously doing no running, but the funny thing is that cycling, swimming, or elliptical work does not bother the hip at all. I mean none - it is very easy to forget the thing is hurt in the first place until I try to run. Thanks for the kind words - I realize lives will not be won or lost if I never ever BQ, but I sure do want to accomplish that someday. There will be another training cycle next year...


Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Sorry to hear this John. Just wanted you to know that you are joining a very elite club - so smile!
Actually, that did make me smile - great perspective and I have appreciated your help. I really needed to hear that so thanks!

Julie wrote:Sorry about the pain, I agree you'd probably be smart just to take what time off you need to and let it completely heal and then just try not to worry about what later this year might hold.
Thanks as always Julie - I guess now that I've finally let marathon goal go I feel a little better upstairs - I could sleep last night without feeling like the clock is just ticking away and I've got to get to running asap. If it takes another month or two I think I'll be fine. I'm worried, though, that if it takes longer than that I could be in real trouble. In the meantime, cross training, stretching a lot, etc is what I have control over...


Mark B wrote:Sorry, John. Been there, done that.

Wait. Am there, doing that! (Elite company, indeed, Michele!)

Don't ever give up. Your body will heal, your problems will resolve, and you will be able to move on and improve.
Thanks Mark - appreciate the kind words and the perspective.

Did 1:05 spinning (including a 45 minute spin class) yesterday followed by 0:30 elliptical. Good butt kicking session that at least made me feel a little better.

As Matt says, Run More! (or don't, depending on the circumstances)

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:19 pm

Only did 30 minutes elliptical yesterday

Swam 2.2 miles today followed with some very very very light jogging/walking and some elliptical work. No pain (OK, maybe a 1 on a scale of 10), but no pushing things either. I won't try running again for a couple of days and maybe try another "jalk".

Got my new Runners World today - haven't even had a chance to read the article yet, but I opened it up to an article entitled "The Painful Truth - Run long enough and you'll likely get hurt. But know this: you'll also get better"

Thank you RW - I also needed that!!!

Planning on sticking with the mostly cross training which doesn't hurt (Dr thinks it won't do any harm) and mixing in some walking/jogging a couple of days of week. The pressure is off for the marathon now, so I can take this really slowly.

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:04 pm

Continue to be patient, and you will be back at it in no time. And since you can swim, you can work on that fitness (and cycling if it doesn't hurt) and be more than primed for the IM. Also remember that pool running is a great option as well.

Once thing that I was reminded of this morning when running with a friend is the importance of coming back easy and being smart. I think that I mentioned to you that I have not taken off more than a day or two since May, 2010 even when my butt/hammie were acting up earlier this past summer. I can attribute that to coming back smart and listening more.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 pm

I've gotta make a somewhat serious warning here, John. If I were you, I could really strongly consider rolling things up for 2 weeks - completely - before coming back to light cycling and swimming. Just because something doesn't actively hurt doesn't mean it's not being impeded from healing. I learned this the hard way and extended the time of my injury from what probably would've been less than a month to almost three. Just think about it.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:44 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Continue to be patient, and you will be back at it in no time. And since you can swim, you can work on that fitness (and cycling if it doesn't hurt) and be more than primed for the IM. Also remember that pool running is a great option as well.

Once thing that I was reminded of this morning when running with a friend is the importance of coming back easy and being smart. I think that I mentioned to you that I have not taken off more than a day or two since May, 2010 even when my butt/hammie were acting up earlier this past summer. I can attribute that to coming back smart and listening more.

Appreciate it - I'm really trying to be patient even though I feel like I could run now. I'm learning this thing is going to take time or I need to change tactics. Seeing another person about it Monday...

Mike MacLellan wrote:I've gotta make a somewhat serious warning here, John. If I were you, I could really strongly consider rolling things up for 2 weeks - completely - before coming back to light cycling and swimming. Just because something doesn't actively hurt doesn't mean it's not being impeded from healing. I learned this the hard way and extended the time of my injury from what probably would've been less than a month to almost three. Just think about it.

Good point Mike - I'm not there yet, but depending on what the Doc says on Monday I may be right there. The thing is, though, there is NO pain at all in my hip when I'm on the elliptical, cycling, or swimming. Zero. So, I'm going to take some more time off from running before testing the waters again and see where I am. Again, I might be right where you were soon, I just don't know yet. It is encouraging to see you, Jim, Kory, etc. coming back so strong after their journeys took a turn.


For the week so far:
Monday: Swam 3850 yds, did 60 minutes elliptical, iron workout (thanks for the tip wrichman! - http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-263-266-14177-0,00.html) light (I'm in such horrible shape I could nowhere near do all of the reps right now, but I'll build to it - plus I'm in no big hurry!)

Tuesday: 1:30 spin, 30 elliptical

Wed: 3000 yds swimming, 55 spin class, 20 elliptical

Sort of feels like triathlon training except I'm just sort of in a long base period waiting for the leg to heal. If it would cooperate, there are a couple of spring tris that I would like to enter - but now I think my best move is to just be patient...

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:59 pm

I'm not doctor, but I will concede that if there's absolutely zero pain, it's probably safe to maintain base fitness while allowing the hip to heal for running. I still think it could cause the healing process to slow a little bit, but if you're in no hurry, then it's not a big deal, right?

That said, I like your idea of making this a base period. I think if you developed your base for a solid 12-16 weeks, incorporating running halfway through (is possible), then built for 2 months, you'd be in great shape to peak for some early/mid summer tris. Water temps would be nicer at that time of year, too. Alternately, you could continue to build a base and very slowly incorporate some running, then transition into a 16-18 week cycle for a fall marathon.

See, that's the upside of the downtime. You get to sit and think of all the awesome things you can do when you get back in it. Wink
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Michael Enright on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:23 am

I'm not sure what the answer is with the hip. I've been injured a bunch of times (including a mysterious, sudden, and bad hip injury), and except for my most recent problem (no doubt it was PF!), haven't always been exactly sure what was wrong, despite medical and PT advice.

Be sure of one thing - if you take some time with it, be patient, and try some different things, you will get through it physically. The mental part is always the toughest challenge! Just when I decide that I need to take a few weeks off to heal up, it seems like everywhere I go everyone is out running!

Hang in there.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  T Miller on Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:08 am

Hey John, just checking in and I see that you're battling an injury. I'm really sorry to read that. I think you should follow everyone's advice and take some time off of the things that bother it. Focus on cross training with things that don't bother it and even work on your core. You won't be able to achieve your goals if you're attempting to train through an injury. Take this little setback and comeback stronger. Every time I've been forced to take some time off I've come back a better runner as a result.

Also, when I'm injured I always think to myself, stretch and strengthen.

Heal up quickly my friend!
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Alex Kubacki on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:31 pm

John, I hope everything comes together for you. I like Tim's motto of stretch and strengthen. The mental part is the hardest but if you take care of it you'll come back stronger.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:44 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:I'm not doctor, but I will concede that if there's absolutely zero pain, it's probably safe to maintain base fitness while allowing the hip to heal for running. I still think it could cause the healing process to slow a little bit, but if you're in no hurry, then it's not a big deal, right?


That said, I like your idea of making this a base period. I think if you developed your base for a solid 12-16 weeks, incorporating running halfway through (is possible), then built for 2 months, you'd be in great shape to peak for some early/mid summer tris. Water temps would be nicer at that time of year, too. Alternately, you could continue to build a base and very slowly incorporate some running, then transition into a 16-18 week cycle for a fall marathon.

See, that's the upside of the downtime. You get to sit and think of all the awesome things you can do when you get back in it. Wink
We'll see how it goes - mental anguish vs total rest. I know which
force is stronger! Seriously, I do have the time and if I feel like I
need to, I will do just that and rest totally for as long as it takes.
I'm just not to that point yet... I doubt if I'll do a marathon this year now except for the ironman this November. I would really hate to hurt myself prior to the IM, but my main goal is still to BQ. Someday Very Happy

Michael Enright wrote:I'm not sure what the answer is with the hip. I've been injured a bunch of times (including a mysterious, sudden, and bad hip injury), and except for my most recent problem (no doubt it was PF!), haven't always been exactly sure what was wrong, despite medical and PT advice.

Be sure of one thing - if you take some time with it, be patient, and try some different things, you will get through it physically. The mental part is always the toughest challenge! Just when I decide that I need to take a few weeks off to heal up, it seems like everywhere I go everyone is out running!

Hang in there.
Thanks Michael - yeah, the mental part is tough. You hit the nail on the head - just as this surfaces it seems everyone is cranking it out. Thanks for sharing your experiences - makes me feel a little better. Looking back, I'm not sure if I did anything really wrong at all. Maybe I could of done a little more stretching and strength training but, in talking with other people, there are no anti-injury guarantees- just go with what youve got and keep your head up is all that I can do!

T Miller wrote:Hey John, just checking in and I see that you're battling an injury. I'm really sorry to read that. I think you should follow everyone's advice and take some time off of the things that bother it. Focus on cross training with things that don't bother it and even work on your core. You won't be able to achieve your goals if you're attempting to train through an injury. Take this little setback and comeback stronger. Every time I've been forced to take some time off I've come back a better runner as a result.

Also, when I'm injured I always think to myself, stretch and strengthen.

Heal up quickly my friend!
Thanks Time - wish we could run/train together sometime - you know, I could do a tempo while you do a recovery run Exclamation . Thanks for the insight and the positive thoughts - I am trying to mix in some light strength stuff (ironstrength workout 1-2x a week) - plus it seems to me like swimming is somewhat beneficial to my core. Also, I'm taking the time to stretch a little more now. By the way, best of luck on your trail race - anxious to see how it goes leading to your ultra.

Alex Kubacki wrote:John, I hope everything comes together for you. I like Tim's motto of stretch and strengthen. The mental part is the hardest but if you take care of it you'll come back stronger.
Thanks Alex - why is it so hard not to train when a little while ago it was hard to get off of the couch?


Since I last checked in:

Thur - 1:10 spin bike 122 HR
ran 3.5 miles in 30 minutes, 129 HR - very little leg pain, but I'm not going to push it. Felt sooooo good to sort of run, even if slowly.

Fri - 0

Sat - rode 72.3 miles, 3:24:45, 21.2 mph, HR 139
Good strong ride - a little windy, but felt really good. Actually felt like I would like to do a brick run after the ride, but now is not the time...

Sun - rode 43.7 miles, 2:03:06, 21.3 mph, HR 131
Snuck it in after church and before Superbowl - a little breezy but good to get out there. Would of liked to do a short and easy brick run after but be patient grasshopper...

Mon 2/6 - swam 3500 yds, 1:05:38, 1:52/100 yds pace
"ran" 6 miles on a treadmill. Again, leg feels a little tight but I didn't push the pace. For the speed I was "running", the effort felt too high - maybe that is to be expected? Anyway, finished the run feeling awful. Leg pain? No. I am such an idiot - I took an entire ziplock bag full of pigs in a blanket from last night with me for lunch. Ate half before the swim and the other half before the run. Bad move bonehead. Yuck. I felt a little green on the mill - note to self - pigs in a blanket will probably not be a wise choice for fuel during the ironman this fall.


Last edited by John Kilpatrick on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : incomplete post)

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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Julie on Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:50 pm

Does the biking not hurt your injury? If not, that does sound like a great way to maintain sanity and fitness.

I know it's hard backing off when you need to heal but do what you need to do to get better.

Hang in there!
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The hill is awfully steep sometimes!

Post  John Kilpatrick on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:18 pm

I miss you guys - and I sure miss my running training. Since the hip fracture got diagnosed, let's just say when it rains it pours. I have dealt with a lot of personal/family stuff over the last couple of weeks and haven't had much time to check in. I'm going to try to catch up the best I can, but there is a lot going on with everyone which is good. I won't lie - it has been rough lately - real rough. I'm doing the best I can, but sometimes it is a day at a time. In the meantime, I have been swimming a good bit and carry the 365 gang in my heart... It is fun to read about the Boston training underway for many and the other good things with everyone...


I'm going a little Schuey here, but I can relate to this (Tim McGraw "better than I used to be")

I know how to hold a grudge
I can send a bridge up in smoke
And I can't count the people I've let down, the hearts I've broke
You ain't gotta dig too deep
If you wanna find some dirt on me
I'm learning who you've been
Ain't who you've got to be
It's gonna be an uphill climb
Aww honey I won't lie

I ain't no angel
I still got a still few more dances with the devil
I’m cleanin up my act, little by little
I’m getting there
I can finally stand the man in the mirror I see
I ain’t as good as I’m gonna get
But I’m better than I used to be

I’ve pinned a lot of demons to the ground
I’ve got a few old habits left
There’s one or two I might need you to help me get
Standin in the rain so long has left me with a little rust
But put some faith in me
And someday you’ll see
There’s a diamond under all this dust

I ain't no angel
I still got a still few more dances with the devil
I’m cleanin up my act, little by little
I’m getting there
I can finally stand the man in the mirror I see
I ain’t as good as I’m gonna get
But I’m better than I used to be

I ain't no angel
I still got a still few more dances with the devil
But I’m cleanin up my act, little by little
I’m getting there
I can finally stand the man in the mirror I see
I ain’t as good as I’m gonna get
But I’m better than I used to be

John Kilpatrick
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Julie on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:36 pm

Sorry to hear about all the trials coming your way right now. It can really stink sometimes, and be very difficult, I know this for sure. Glad to hear you're swimming. Hang in there and I hope things turn around soon for you.
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Julie
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  JohnP on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:26 pm

Ditto what Julie said, John. Sorry to hear of the trials, and hope things work out for you soon.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:47 pm

One day at a time, indeed, John. Glad to see you're still around, even if just in the shadows. And that's a good song; one of the ones I turn up when it comes on the radio.
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Re: Uphill climb part 2

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