Any Hammer Gel, HEED or Perpetuem Users?

Hi All -

Anyone use any of these Hammer products for training or racing? Would love to hear your reviews.

The Perpetuem sounds promising to me as I believe in ingesting protein on the run and could carry the powder form and mix in handheld water bottles as needed.

I've used Hammer Gel and Heed before, but not Perpetuem.

Hammer Gel is much like Gu, except it's a bit more frosting-like. Heed is like nothing else on the market, but it's not bad once you get used to it. I switched away from it because it was such a hassle to find, not because it didn't work.

I've used Hammer Gel a lot. Don't notice any difference vs. GU, Stingers or whatever. I hate the consistency and flavor of all of them. But they do their job. At least there is a whallop of carbs in a small amount.

I used Heed exclusively as Boston this year. I carried a 24 oz bottle with 300 calories in it. Drank one bottle in the first half and switched out for a second 24 oz bottle with the same concentration for the second half. This way I got the carbs and fluids in me at the same time and skipped all the aid stations. The equivalent of about 6 GUs. I did find the Heed to be a little sickening by the end from a taste perspective. Maybe two different flavors would have been better. But I don't know. I usually don't like anything anyways in the last 10 miles. Pretty much have to force any thing down.

For what its worth, I didn't hit the wall and felt fine from a carb and fluid perspective.

Have used Hammer Gel--consistency is a bit different but effectiveness is similar to that of Gu.

Heed tastes like urine...can't stand it. Which is problematic, given most ultras offer it. But it's absolutely disgusting.

wendy_miller wrote:Have used Hammer Gel--consistency is a bit different but effectiveness is similar to that of Gu.

Heed tastes like urine...can't stand it. Which is problematic, given most ultras offer it. But it's absolutely disgusting.

Wendy, when was the last time you tasted urine? Just askin'

mountandog wrote:

wendy_miller wrote:Have used Hammer Gel--consistency is a bit different but effectiveness is similar to that of Gu.

Heed tastes like urine...can't stand it. Which is problematic, given most ultras offer it. But it's absolutely disgusting.

Wendy, when was the last time you tasted urine? Just askin'

May 11, with I mistakenly drank Heed, thinking it was water

Truthfully, I have tasted urine. It's a long story that happened during one of my first ever shifts as a brand new registered nurse. Think full urinal bottle spilling on top of me. But, even if you haven't tasted urine, you'd agree. #nasty

Mark -

What do you mean it's like nothing else on the market? Because it tastes like urine??

(I'm pretty sure you could buy urine - so I'd consider it 'on the market')

Ben Z wrote:Mark -

What do you mean it's like nothing else on the market? Because it tastes like urine??

(I'm pretty sure you could buy urine - so I'd consider it 'on the market')

Uh.... well. Heck. You've got me there, Ben.

I don't think HEED tastes like urine, FWIW. I think it is relatively unique in taste because it's not sickeningly sweet but still provides carbs. I thought it was not great, but drinkable. Compared to Cytomax, which tastes like bad Kool Aid mixed with saccharine and corn syrup instead of water, HEED is ambrosia.

I prefer nuun as my hydration fluid now. It lacks carbs but doesn't make me nauseated after a couple of hours.

I just got back from meeting with a coach...big changes in store for my training!

One of the things we discussed was leg cramping. I don't cramp when I run or bike but I suffer with cramping at night in bed and also while swimming.

She suggested the I try Powerbar Ironman Performance for hydration and electrolytes. She also suggested that I try Succeed S caps.

Any comments/experience that might be helpful?

Thanks...Nancy

Endurolytes instead of S Caps. More balanced.

But S Caps are good too.

Michele hipped me to Calcium-Magnesium-Zinc dietary supplements to help keep the mineral balance, too.

I use S-Caps. Endurolytes work, but you need to take more of them per hour than S-Caps.

Thanks guys...I'll experiment and see how things go.

Ben, why do you believe in protein while running? I want to believe, but the only studies on it seem to show it reduces recovery time but doesn't help performance during the race. Do you have other input?

Hey Ben I'm all about Hammer products and that is basically all I use now. I have been using their products now for over 3 years and in my opinion they provide the best product for me on the market. There are even ways to to mix different products together to give a better taste or even create your flavors.

Example when I use the Sustained Energy (unflavored) I will also include Fizz tablets with it like grape or peach.

I also agree with you that the Endurolytes are much better balanced product then just taking salt tablets.

I really need to dig up a bunch of this information that I have on their products along with other studies that explains what their thinking and theory is behind their products.

By far they do more research and studies then other companies and I feel as if they overall care about the overall health of the athlete.

JohnP wrote:Ben, why do you believe in protein while running? I want to believe, but the only studies on it seem to show it reduces recovery time but doesn't help performance during the race. Do you have other input?

My thinking goes, and I'm sure I read it somewhere, is that protein helps your muscles re-build right? Well, during a race such as a marathon or an ultra you should have enough time to re-build the muscles you are breaking down on the run to a certain extent. Your body can also use protein as a fuel source on the run, same as fat. Another reason I also try to take in whole foods with some fat on a long effort when possible.

2-5g/hr is doable if you ask this dietitian:

http://www.active.com/nutrition/Articles/How-Much-Protein-During-a-Workout.htm

On a side note I have taken up to 10g/hr without much issue in a marathon before but going forward I plan to only take one Accel Gel (5g) per hour. Then I'll alternate with a different sugar source such as those found in Hammer gels - which is Maltodextrin instead of sucrose like that found in Accel and Gu brand gels.

Protein also helps with the rumbly in your tumbly after running so many hours.

Okay, so I learned a little more and realize that the statement above is in error. Protein is important, but not for satiety; that's what a little bit of fat is for at those ultra aid stations. Protein intake helps reduce the breakdown of muscle protein during extended exertion, or so I read.

Tried my first Hammer Gel on a run today - Apple Cinnamon. It is a bit thicker than Gu or Accel gels. My stomach didn't feel so hot after a couple of miles within taking it but that had more to do with how big of a breakfast I had only 90 minutes prior I think.

We'll see how it goes on the run tomorrow as I plan to alternate Hammer, Accel and Stinger on a 3+ hour effort.

There is some good information here regarding the Pacific Health lab products - Accelerade and Endurox among others.

http://www.pacifichealthlabs.com/blog/

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/how-much-protein-is-required-for-endurance-exercise.2892.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-endurolytes-rationale.770.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/carbohydrates-101-the-why-s-when-s-what-s.294.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-hammer-nutrition-fuels-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them.1252.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:There is some good information here regarding the Pacific Health lab products - Accelerade and Endurox among others.

http://www.pacifichealthlabs.com/blog/

Yes, Accel gels. What I use because of the protein and it's easier to swallow on the run . Curious about the hammer products, I like the idea of the fizz tablet convenience. Will have to check it out.

No bonk this weekend on a 23.5 miler. Had Scott Jurek's Pre-workout green smoothie (water, spirulina, bananas, miso and pineapple) and plain oatmeal. Then took four gels at 60, 90, 120 and 150 minutes. One S cap too. Alternated two Accel gels with a Hammer gel and a Cliff gel. Worked well I think and will be my new routine.

Schuey wrote:http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/how-much-protein-is-required-for-endurance-exercise.2892.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-endurolytes-rationale.770.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/carbohydrates-101-the-why-s-when-s-what-s.294.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section


[url=http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-hammer-nutrition-fuels-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them.1252.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-hammer-nutrition-fuels-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them.1252.html?sect=advanced-knowledge-section[/quote[/url]]

I buy it. From the first article:

Carbohydrate (260 calories per/hour +/- 20 k/cal) consumed with proteins during workouts reduces the exercise-induced toll on lean muscle mass wasting with performance implications. After 70-90 minutes of exercise, glycogen stores dip low enough to commence recruiting amino acids from lean muscle stores into the energy cycle at a greater rate. Replacement of cannibalized protein needs to begin during exercise and restored within 30 minutes (ideal) to 120 minutes after exercise in the presence of a cell carrier enzyme, glycogen synthase, which is released in proportion to muscle glycogen depletion.

Hey Ben you see hammer just came out with a Peanut Butter gel flavor with protein and good fats in it! I'm going to buy some today and see how it works.

Schuey wrote:Hey Ben you see hammer just came out with a Peanut Butter gel flavor with protein and good fats in it! I'm going to buy some today and see how it works.

Awesome! Let me know what you think as I'm always looking for new flavors I like.

I need to pick up the Gu Salted Caramel as well.