The Never-Ending Training Schedule?

I saw an article in RW a while back (maybe a year now?) about a "race season" training schedule in which the same 2 weeks were repeated ad infinitum, with a short race every other Sunday. I'm curious what you'd all recommend for a NON-racing, never-ending maintenance schedule? Would you suggest 2-week mesocycles? 3-week? 4-week? What do you cap your long runs at? Etc. etc.

EDIT: There is one additional criterion for this schedule; you must be able to start training for any distance race (mile to marathon) from it. So it needs to have a full blend of VO2max, lactate threshold, aerobic, and recovery running.

Honestly, it would look like a 4-week cycle from Hal's Adv 1 marathon program. It has a good variety of everything and moderate mileage. Maybe cut the long run a bit if it truly is a "maintainence" period.

I've always said that Hals Adv 1 will have you ready to race competently at 5k through marathon at all times. The flip side of that, though, is that if your PRs were set off distance specific training, you won't touch them, because the program isn't specialized enough to any distance.

The goal is to be ready to train for a PR, not necessarily to be ready to race one immediately. Which 4 weeks would you pick?

Mike MacLellan wrote:The goal is to be ready to train for a PR, not necessarily to be ready to race one immediately. Which 4 weeks would you pick?

That's up to you depending on how difficult you want to make it. It's pretty much a rotating 3 week routine if I remember correctly with the only real difference being the length of runs and number of repeats (hills and 800s if I remember right).

mul21 wrote:

That's up to you depending on how difficult you want to make it. It's pretty much a rotating 3 week routine if I remember correctly with the only real difference being the length of runs and number of repeats (hills and 800s if I remember right).

Exactly. I think weeks 5 through 8 would provide a great "off-season" maintainence that would have you in great shape to seque into just about any sort of training.

Really, I just meant I would advise following a general structure of:

Mon: easy
Tues: tempo/pace run
Wed: easy
Thurs: interval/V02Max
Fri: off (or easy)
Sat: general aerobic
Sun: long - i.e. 10+

That should put you between 50-60 miles and hits a nice, varied range of paces. Oh, and I'd include 8 x 100 strides twice per week.

I agree with Dave-O. When I'm in the "off race season", I usually run a 35-45 (maybe) mile week (remember I only peak round 58-60 miles but add in a lot of longer intervals when I train harder), but I run a schedule very much like what Dave-O posted with at least one interval run and one tempo run per week and a long run of roughly 10 miles. I then intersperse short easy runs usually in the 4-5 mile range.

With this type of schedule, it is easy for me to dial into something specific for a race or start marathon training again as I never really lose my base. I attribute my longevity and somewhat success over the years to keeping this type of schedule going as best as I can.

Now after Boston, I will take a few days off and drop the mileage to the low 30s for the next couple of weeks, but I will still aim to get in a long run of at lest 8 miles the first couple of weeks.

Sounds good enough for me. Thanks for the input all; now I know a loose summer schedule for myself

Dave-O wrote:

Really, I just meant I would advise following a general structure of:

Mon: easy
Tues: tempo/pace run
Wed: easy
Thurs: interval/V02Max
Fri: off (or easy)
Sat: general aerobic
Sun: long - i.e. 10+

That should put you between 50-60 miles and hits a nice, varied range of paces. Oh, and I'd include 8 x 100 strides twice per week.

Define "easy."

One of the big things I learned from the metabolic testing I had done was that I was not spending enough (well, any) time at low aerobic levels - New Leaf calls it the "Over-Distance / Active Recovery" zone - 53% to 59% of Max. As painstaking as it is - that's below McMillan's "Recovery Jog" effort (60% to 65%) - time in that training zone between cycles is critical to teaching the body to burn fat for fuel, absorb oxygen, and build capillary and mitochondrial density. Basically, because everything I did year-round was at 70% (LSD pace) and above, I was shutting off fat burning too soon, which hurt my endurance.

So, I agree with Dave, if you define "easy" as LSD + 45 - 75 / MP + 105 - 135.

Also, McMillan believes that marathoners should do a 2 hour "maintenance long run" year round. So, again, Dave's approach is solid (as always) provided that 10+ is something approaching 2 hours on a regular basis.

Dave-O wrote:

mul21 wrote:

That's up to you depending on how difficult you want to make it. It's pretty much a rotating 3 week routine if I remember correctly with the only real difference being the length of runs and number of repeats (hills and 800s if I remember right).

Exactly. I think weeks 5 through 8 would provide a great "off-season" maintainence that would have you in great shape to seque into just about any sort of training.

Really, I just meant I would advise following a general structure of:

Mon: easy
Tues: tempo/pace run
Wed: easy
Thurs: interval/V02Max
Fri: off (or easy)
Sat: general aerobic
Sun: long - i.e. 10+

That should put you between 50-60 miles and hits a nice, varied range of paces. Oh, and I'd include 8 x 100 strides twice per week.

That's my schedule NOW!

Dave-O wrote:

mul21 wrote:

That's up to you depending on how difficult you want to make it. It's pretty much a rotating 3 week routine if I remember correctly with the only real difference being the length of runs and number of repeats (hills and 800s if I remember right).

Exactly. I think weeks 5 through 8 would provide a great "off-season" maintainence that would have you in great shape to seque into just about any sort of training.

Really, I just meant I would advise following a general structure of:

Mon: easy
Tues: tempo/pace run
Wed: easy
Thurs: interval/V02Max
Fri: off (or easy)
Sat: general aerobic
Sun: long - i.e. 10+

That should put you between 50-60 miles and hits a nice, varied range of paces. Oh, and I'd include 8 x 100 strides twice per week.

I know for fact this works for Jerry.

Martin VW wrote: ...fat-burning zone...

I found that cycling last summer did this for me. I tend to ride at a VERY comfortably easy pace, especially with Aileen (I rode with her 2-4x/week last summer), since our fitness levels are so different. So I could still do my runs "easy" (MP+60to75?) and then ride for the fat-burning. I got a hell of a lot faster over the summer with some relatively unstructured training, too.

Great question! I think about this a lot actually when I'm training. My opinion is that, assuming life doesn't get in the way (which is really tough) a perfect year-round base building plan would follow one of three approaches:

1. Lydiard Influenced: Following one of this base-building weeks. Over the course of seven days you would want to include two easy runs of 90 minutes, one longer run done easy at 2 hours, include a comfortably hard run that leaves you pleasantly fatigued (I would mix this in to one of the 90 minute runs) and then do the rest of your runs easy. The total volume would be whatever you feel like you could handle each week without getting injured less 5-10%. You don't need to hit 100 miles for the week like many people believe Lydiard mandated, but it's a nice, round number .
   
2. 14 day cycles: Every two weeks you do a true, long run. Sometimes the long run is done easy, other times you mix in marathon pace or faster miles. Then in between the long run you would do two LT workouts, one VO2 max workout and rest of the runs easy/moderate. Also trying to get in a mid-week longish run each week done easy/moderate. A fartlek could replace the VO2 max session to lower the risk of injury.
   
3. 10 day cycles: Every 10th day you do a long run. In between you try to do one LT workout, one long-ish run and one VO2 max run. Then the rest of the days are easy/moderate. A fartlek could replace the VO2 max session to lower the risk of injury.
   

I actually really wish I could follow the 10 day plan, but I don't think my job would allow for it. At least I wouldn't be able to sleep as much as I need if I tried. Instead I follow a typically 7 day cycle with a weekly long run.

Dave-O wrote:

Exactly. I think weeks 5 through 8 would provide a great "off-season" maintainence that would have you in great shape to seque into just about any sort of training.

Really, I just meant I would advise following a general structure of:

Mon: easy
Tues: tempo/pace run
Wed: easy
Thurs: interval/V02Max
Fri: off (or easy)
Sat: general aerobic
Sun: long - i.e. 10+

That should put you between 50-60 miles and hits a nice, varied range of paces. Oh, and I'd include 8 x 100 strides twice per week.

This is a nice, weely schedule that can be repeated forever. You will always be ready to start training off of something like this.

I might tweak it slightly to follow this weekly plan:

Mon: easy
Tues: interval/V02Max
Wed: easy, long(ish), ~90 minutes
Thurs: easy
Fri: tempo/pace run
Sat: easy
Sun: long - i.e., 2+ hours

Hmmm, I like the sound of a 10-day cycle, and I'd be able to do it this summer. I probably wouldn't be hitting anywhere near 100mi/wk, more likely capping it at around 60-70 (per week, not per 10 days), but there'd be a few hours of cycling in there, too.

Ben Z wrote:

10 day cycles: Every 10th day you do a long run. In between you try to do one LT workout, one long-ish run and one VO2 max run. Then the rest of the days are easy/moderate. A fartlek could replace the VO2 max session to lower the risk of injury.

I actually really wish I could follow the 10 day plan, but I don't think my job would allow for it. At least I wouldn't be able to sleep as much as I need if I tried. Instead I follow a typically 7 day cycle with a weekly long run.

Man, I've always wanted to try a 10-day cycle! I don't recover as well from long runs, and I think I'd thrive having to do one only every 10 days. There's just so much more flexibility to fit in mid-length long runs, and 2-3 workouts in the 9 days before the long run.

Actually, when I win $640 million tonight, I should be able to start the 10 day cycle pretty soon.

Dave-O wrote:
Actually, when I win $640 million tonight, I should be able to start the 10 day cycle pretty soon.

actually don't spend the money on a mega million tix. I already have the winner. Would hate to see you waste a couple of bucks.