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Hanson's training?

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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  Alex Kubacki on Thu May 09, 2013 8:04 am

I just got the book and while its not with me that looks like the training plan. They have the speed stuff prior to the strength stuff and the tempo runs are MP. Their idea on the long run not being more than 16 is based on the idea of not having your LR be more than 25% or so of your weekly mileage. Also, their plan is that the 16 should represent the last 16 of a marathon so you're doing them on tired legs.
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  carleenp on Thu May 09, 2013 5:26 pm

mul21 wrote:After seeing the success Carleen had with the Hanson's plan, I dug into it a little deeper and from a few different spot around the webs, managed to come up with what I think is a basic template for their advanced plan:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhLIgMdWJFc9dFpPenA0eEgzM2ZjTk5zM281SHhsX2c&usp=sharing

I haven't been able to post the spreadsheet itself, so there's a link to a Google doc. My questions are:

1. Is that what the plan should look like? Specifically, are the speed and strength workouts right and do I have them in the right order?

2. Has anyone else used this with success? If so, what modifications did you make, if any, and what were they?

The book has the speed sessions slightly different. It lists these for advanced:

Speed: Run intervals at 5k-10k pace
12x400, 400 recovery
8x600, 400 recovery
6x800, 400 recovery
5x1k, 400 recovery
4x1200, 400 recovery
400-800-1200-1600-800, 400 recovery
3x1600, 400 recovery
6x800 400 recovery
3x1600, 400 recovery

Strength: Run intervals at Marathon Pace minus 10 seconds
6x1 mile, 400 recovery
4x1.5 mile, 800 recovery
3x2 mile, 800 recovery
2x3 mile, 1 mile recovery
3x2 mile, 800 recovery
4x1.5 mile, 800 recovery
6x1 mile, 400 recovery

Everything else looks right

Tempo for Hansons is a Marathon Pace run and should have a one mile warm up and one mile cool down aside form the amount listed. The interval sessions should have the same warm up and cool down added.


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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  carleenp on Thu May 09, 2013 5:36 pm

I'm using their basic plan which really is not all that much different from the advanced. The basic just has some weeks of base building and then shortens the speed period to make up for that. The only adjustment I made was running a bit higher miles in the base building phase and then I eased into the speed work a bit by adding a couple weeks of 6x400 and 8x400 before the speed part started and I cut the 12x400 to 10x400 because it was new to me. In hindsight I could have done 12 just fine. I also am running only 4 days this week instead of 6 because of the race. Other than that I made no adjustments and don't plan on any from here until the end of the program.
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  nkrichards on Thu May 09, 2013 6:19 pm

Carleen...you've really got me curious! In some way's this is similar to what I've been doing but does have some differences. What has been the most obvious change for you as compared to what you were doing before? More miles or different type of runs or ??? I'm really impressed with your improvement. Can you pinpoint anything specific that you feel is mostly responsible for the great results?

Is the book worth buying?

Thanks...Nancy
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  carleenp on Thu May 09, 2013 7:35 pm

nkrichards wrote:Carleen...you've really got me curious! In some way's this is similar to what I've been doing but does have some differences. What has been the most obvious change for you as compared to what you were doing before? More miles or different type of runs or ??? I'm really impressed with your improvement. Can you pinpoint anything specific that you feel is mostly responsible for the great results?

Is the book worth buying?

Thanks...Nancy

I think the book is worth buying. It has some good information in it beyond just the training programs.

I think for me the program has helped me the most so far by adding more running days and more quality runs. I used to run 4 or 5 days per week and now it is 6 days, and my easy days are longer than before. The speed work is challenging for me, yet doable. By the end of the 6 days in a row, which ends with speed work, you are pretty tired. They count on that, calling it cumulative fatigue. I don't think it is running more miles, since I'm not running that many more yet than I have in the past, so much as it is that I am running more often and more quality. Yet there still are plenty of slow easy miles in the program. I do feel it though. I'm a bit tired and sore a lot of the time lately!

When I decided to do the program I read a lot of forums with people reporting on how they did with it. A very large majority reported success and many reported rather large successes with it, including people who had been running for years and were having trouble getting new PRs. Many report that it is a hard program but very few reported getting injured and most seemed to really like it. So that sold me on trying it. I also like the theory behind it, even though the 16 mile cap on the long run still psychologically freaks me out a bit!

I have a friend who plans to use it for her fall marathon and she is watching for my July report on the effect of the 16 mile thing. She figures if I report issues with that she will just up a couple of those to 18-20.
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  mountandog on Thu May 09, 2013 10:49 pm

I think its more important to understand the principles of the Hanson's method rather than the specific workouts. I trained my last cycle coached by one of the runners on the Hanson-Brooks team, so I had the chance to really get into it and understand it. Many of the workouts were a lot different than what is in the book. More fun, more flexible. There are several principles that cannot be understood unless you look at the training cycle of the elites. Look at Luke's cycle later in the book. Because all these kids do is run, they use a different cycle that can't be perfectly adapted to a 7 day workweek that we humans must use. They work on a 9-day cycle, but they can move their long-run to any day of the week. I can't, so we adapted. Here are a few of the key lessons I learned:

1) Minimum 2 days easy between workout runs (for me this was MP +60-90 sec) > this occasionally means you might only have one hard workout in addition to your long run every once in a while. I'd have to double check, but I don't think I ever did anything close to back to back hard runs.
2) Tempo runs at MP and increasing in distance over time. I ran a bunch of MP miles
3) Easy is easy > more important to get the miles in - forget about pace - definitely don't go too fast
4) long run is limited to 2:30 - 2:45 on your feet. I ran three 20's in my cycle, but they took me 2:35- 2:40. There is no benefit to staying on your feet more than 2:45-3:00. If 20 takes you more than that stop, hence the 16 mile rule. If it takes you three hours to run 14 miles - then 14 miles is the limit of your long run.
5) Long-runs make up 25-30% of your mileage. If you want more mileage, run real easy on your day off. I was using 2 miles to warm-up and cool down which added 2 extra miles to each "workout" run.
6) Run more days, not more longer runs. I kept my mileage the same as prior cycles (I plan to bump it up a bit next cycle) but only took off 5 days from mid-December to Boston. But, my mid-week longer runs dropped from 12-14 miles to 8-10 because of the extra days. That was a great benefit.
7) Run the day before your long run - the long run is supposed to simulate the last "half" or so of the marathon, so you're supposed to start your long run already a bit tired. I was. I did 10-20 on three occasions.

Cool Took a break in the middle - I trained for a 5k race in mid-Jan and took a small taper and a day off after. Then a couple of easy days. Their principle is to keep your mind fresh and prevent you from going stale. Unlike many plans, they DO NOT recommend a HM too close to the marathon. More like 6-8 weeks out. They also don't like to race much during the cycle for a number of reasons.

This is just some of what I learned. I felt I was very well prepared for Boston and had my 2nd best time ever, in spite of some real difficulties in the middle of the race which had nothing to do with my training (yes I know I owe a Boston race report sometime). I had a very good training cycle and running 7 days a week most of the time was much easier than I thought. It had its benefits and its drawbacks, but in the end I think its better if you can work around the home/work/run balance issues. FYI for reference, most of my weeks were in the 60-70 range. I peaked at 80.

If anyone has any specific questions, I can either give you my opinion or get one of the Hanson guys/gals to give me some thoughts. I'll also be seeing the Hanson brothers in a few weeks.
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  mul21 on Fri May 10, 2013 9:38 am

Thanks everybody. I may have to go pick up the book and give it a once over to get a better handle on their philosophy. I think I recall seeing something online about the 9 day cycle you're talking about Michael. I have a 10 week base building plan laid out right now and then I'm planning on a 16 week cycle, so I'll end up sticking to this plan pretty closely, but not exactly. I should be able to get up to an 18 miler in 2.5 hours, so I may plan on that.

Now I just have to keep at the core strengthening stuff I've been doing so I can stay healthy through an entire cycle.
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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  Admin on Fri May 10, 2013 10:20 am

Ah... RUN MORE!

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Re: Hanson's training?

Post  mountandog on Fri May 10, 2013 11:23 am

Mr MattM wrote:Ah... RUN MORE!

What a Face



yup - in the end mileage counts
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