Re: Time to Pace Others

Julie Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:43 pm

How many weeks till Chicago? I think you'd have time for both, as well. I think I've asked this before but is there a training program you're following?

Penelope Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:32 pm

I have no idea, but I'd vote for tempo runs. They are more or less teaching you to run while you're getting tired, which seems like it would be good prep for the later parts of a marathon. Best of luck with the training!

Jim Lentz Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:56 pm

mul21 wrote:Well, being coached by Dave and influenced (corrupted, whatever!) by his theories on things, you might give one of his workouts a shot. He's been doing a 14 miler with 10 at an average of MP-10. He scaled it back for me a bit to 12 with 8 @ MP-10. Maybe give one of those a shot as a mid week workout and do 10 with 6 @ MP-10 the first time you try it. I usually start out a bit slower and work my way down. So, for example, if goal MP is 8:00 miles, start out at like 8:15 or so and work your way down to maybe 7:35 over the 6 miles so you average somewhere around 7:50-55. It's a good workout but it won't crush your legs for the rest of the week. If you handle that well, the next week either bump it to 12 w/8 or do 10 w/6 again, but average closer to your actual tempo pace.

Jim, I will have to give that type of MP-10 run a try. Thanks!

Kenny B. wrote:Not sure why you can't do both. Either in the same week or alternating. Depends on what you can handle.

I think if choosing one over the other I would do the TEMPO Run's but for confidence builder and feeling what MP feels like I would do at least 2 pace runs of some sort. Either last 3-5 miles of a long run or 16 w/10 @ MP or 12 @MP.

Thanks Kenny, I will see if I can't schedule in some of both. My left quad seems to be doing fine so some faster stuff seems like a good idea.

Seth Harrison wrote:
mul21 wrote:Well, being coached by Dave and influenced (corrupted, whatever!) by his theories on things, you might give one of his workouts a shot. He's been doing a 14 miler with 10 at an average of MP-10. He scaled it back for me a bit to 12 with 8 @ MP-10. Maybe give one of those a shot as a mid week workout and do 10 with 6 @ MP-10 the first time you try it. I usually start out a bit slower and work my way down. So, for example, if goal MP is 8:00 miles, start out at like 8:15 or so and work your way down to maybe 7:35 over the 6 miles so you average somewhere around 7:50-55. It's a good workout but it won't crush your legs for the rest of the week. If you handle that well, the next week either bump it to 12 w/8 or do 10 w/6 again, but average closer to your actual tempo pace.

I think Kenny's point about doing both workouts is a good one.
I did several mid-week tempo runs that were very similar to the ones Jim got from Dave one while training for what turned out to be my PR marathon in Philly '09, and I think those, along with several long runs with MP miles built in, were the most important workouts of that cycle. You probably wouldn't do them in the same week, but alternating weeks would probably be very effective.

edit: I don't know how many long runs you have left, I'm guessing at least two. Looking back at my log from my Philly training, in the last 6 weeks of training, I did two 20's and an 18, all with significant portions at MP (one of the 20's had 10 at MP, and the 18 had 13 at slightly faster than MP). During that time, I also did 4 midweek tempo runs of various distances (all between five and eight miles, with chunks of miles at faster than MP.
With any luck, I'll be able to nail similar workouts this time around.

Thanks for the ideas, Seth. It is hard for me to do anything other than easy long runs because I am a pace leader for the 9:00 pace team. I wish I could mix some MP miles in there, but will get some in on the longer mid-week runs.

Jim Lentz Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:59 pm

Julie wrote:How many weeks till Chicago? I think you'd have time for both, as well. I think I've asked this before but is there a training program you're following?

Julie, there are 7 weeks before the Chicago Marathon. I was following a specific training program, but had to bail on it due to injuring my right quad. I have been bulding back the miles and now feel ready for some faster stuff.

Penelope wrote:I have no idea, but I'd vote for tempo runs. They are more or less teaching you to run while you're getting tired, which seems like it would be good prep for the later parts of a marathon. Best of luck with the training!

Kathy, I will try to ge in some tempo runs as well as some milage at MP. Thanks!

Jim Lentz Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:07 pm

Today was an easy 20 with the group, but I struggled due to the humidity. It was upper 70s and no sun, so it seemed cool at the start. I lost 8+ pounds during the run and had lots of water and Gatorade.

Michael Enright Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:25 pm

Had the same problem today on a much shorter run. At least you got it done! That's a lot of fluid loss - drink up.

Jim Lentz Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Michael Enright wrote:Had the same problem today on a much shorter run. At least you got it done! That's a lot of fluid loss - drink up.

Thanks Michael, I have been drinking lots of fluids and chicken noodle soup. I seem to be coming down with a cold.

JohnP Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:40 pm

That's a lot of weight loss. The 70s is a deceptive temperature. It seems cooler since when we run in the 80s and 90s, it's really hot. But it's still fairly warm, especially with the humidity we've still had, so running long is not easy.

Seth Harrison Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:58 am

Jim Lentz wrote:Today was an easy 20 with the group, but I struggled due to the humidity. It was upper 70s and no sun, so it seemed cool at the start. I lost 8+ pounds during the run and had lots of water and Gatorade.

That is a lot of weight to lose over the course of a run Jim. Hope you're feeling good afterward.

jon c Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:05 pm

Agree that replenishing your fluids is so important. Sometimes I tend to overlook this myself so I'll need to take my own advice as well! Glad you got the run in and I hope your pace group responsibilities go well when the time comes.

Jim Lentz Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:19 pm

JohnP wrote:That's a lot of weight loss. The 70s is a deceptive temperature. It seems cooler since when we run in the 80s and 90s, it's really hot. But it's still fairly warm, especially with the humidity we've still had, so running long is not easy.

I lost more weight one other time. It was supposed to be 20 miles and I struggled to make 18 and had to have someone pick me up. It was deceptive because it felt nice and cool at the start. My socks and other running clothes were soaked. One of the other runners made a comment about my squishing feet.

Seth Harrison wrote:
Jim Lentz wrote:Today was an easy 20 with the group, but I struggled due to the humidity. It was upper 70s and no sun, so it seemed cool at the start. I lost 8+ pounds during the run and had lots of water and Gatorade.

That is a lot of weight to lose over the course of a run Jim. Hope you're feeling good afterward.

I felt pretty bad most of yesterday, but after lots of fluids, chicken noodle soup and vitamin C I feel much better toay.

jon c wrote:Agree that replenishing your fluids is so important. Sometimes I tend to overlook this myself so I'll need to take my own advice as well! Glad you got the run in and I hope your pace group responsibilities go well when the time comes.

I stopped at every Gatorade station for water and Gatorade and even had everyone stop at 3 additional drinking fountains, but I couldn't keep up with my sweating. I only pace for the training runs, not for the actual marathon. I did unofficially run some runners in for a projected 4:15 and finished 4 seconds ahead of that. It was the year I ran 9 miles to the start of the Chicago Marathon.

Kenny B. Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:36 pm

I lost 8 lbs two weeks ago on my 20 and it was miserable. Don't think losing that much can make for an easy and good 20.

Alex Kubacki Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:49 am

Wow 8lbs. That's tough. Nice to see you're feeling better.

Jim Lentz Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:41 pm

Kenny B. wrote:I lost 8 lbs two weeks ago on my 20 and it was miserable. Don't think losing that much can make for an easy and good 20.

You are absolutely right, Kenny.

Alex Kubacki wrote:Wow 8lbs. That's tough. Nice to see you're feeling better.

Thanks Alex, although today seemed tougher than is should have. At least I know my weight is back where it should be.

Jim Lentz Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:47 pm

I forgot to mention that last week I did something funny. On Wednesday I left the house around 5:00 AM to run with a Back on My Feet group. After running about 1.5 miles toward where we start running with the group I realized I had on my running underwear, but no running shorts. Fortunately the underwear is black and looks a lot like running shorts. Nobody notice, or at least nobody said anything about it:lol:

Today I wanted to do some faster running and while I did get in 3 miles at a fairly fast pace it didn't go quite like I had hoped/planned. I ran 3 miles to warm up and wasn't feeling very peppy, but pushed the 4th mile to MP-10 seconds. I had to slow down because I felt bad and ran the 5th and 6th miles at a 8:12 pace. For miles 7 and 8 I was able to average just under MP. My HR looked decent, but for some reason the run felt really tough. It was cool and the humidity was low, so I can't balme it on the weather.

Jim Lentz Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:20 am

I took yesterday off because my upper right leg was a little sore. Today I ran 11 easy miles with 2 of those with the BoMF group.

charles.moman Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:32 am

And how were you dressed this time? Razz

mul21 Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:33 am

Jim Lentz wrote:I forgot to mention that last week I did something funny. On Wednesday I left the house around 5:00 AM to run with a Back on My Feet group. After running about 1.5 miles toward where we start running with the group I realized I had on my running underwear, but no running shorts. Fortunately the underwear is black and looks a lot like running shorts. Nobody notice, or at least nobody said anything about it:lol:

Ha! I've thought about losing my shorts a couple different times when they get sweat soaked, but I've never actually run that way. Pretty funny!

As for the tough time getting the pace down, I wouldn't worry much about it as a one time thing. We all have good days and bad days. I couldn't get my pace much under 8:15 last night on my long run and I haven't had that happen in at least a month.

Jim Lentz Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:03 am

charles.moman wrote:And how were you dressed this time?

Fully

Jim Lentz Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:06 am

mul21 wrote:
Jim Lentz wrote:I forgot to mention that last week I did something funny. On Wednesday I left the house around 5:00 AM to run with a Back on My Feet group. After running about 1.5 miles toward where we start running with the group I realized I had on my running underwear, but no running shorts. Fortunately the underwear is black and looks a lot like running shorts. Nobody notice, or at least nobody said anything about it:lol:

Ha! I've thought about losing my shorts a couple different times when they get sweat soaked, but I've never actually run that way. Pretty funny!

As for the tough time getting the pace down, I wouldn't worry much about it as a one time thing. We all have good days and bad days. I couldn't get my pace much under 8:15 last night on my long run and I haven't had that happen in at least a month.

I didn't really have time to run back home and I figured nobody would notice. I'm not even sure how I did it.

Jim, I will have to pay attnetion to the runs that go well too.

Seth Harrison Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:01 pm

Jim Lentz wrote:I forgot to mention that last week I did something funny. On Wednesday I left the house around 5:00 AM to run with a Back on My Feet group. After running about 1.5 miles toward where we start running with the group I realized I had on my running underwear, but no running shorts. Fortunately the underwear is black and looks a lot like running shorts. Nobody notice, or at least nobody said anything about it:lol:

Well nobody said anything to you...I can only imagine what they were saying among themselves! Very Happy

Jim Lentz Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:28 pm

Seth Harrison wrote:
Jim Lentz wrote:I forgot to mention that last week I did something funny. On Wednesday I left the house around 5:00 AM to run with a Back on My Feet group. After running about 1.5 miles toward where we start running with the group I realized I had on my running underwear, but no running shorts. Fortunately the underwear is black and looks a lot like running shorts. Nobody notice, or at least nobody said anything about it:lol:

Well nobody said anything to you...I can only imagine what they were saying among themselves!

One way I could see if they were just being polite is to show up next week sans running shorts and underwear Embarassed

Alex Kubacki Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:46 am

Jim, great story on the underwear.

Julie Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:57 am

oh dear. Hey, you had shorts on, that counts.

Jim Lentz Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:52 am

Alex Kubacki wrote:Jim, great story on the underwear.

It sure is funny now!

Julie wrote:oh dear. Hey, you had shorts on, that counts.

I am glad that the are black and compression stye, as I don't think anyone noticed.

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