400s vs. .25 mile

I found running today 6 x .25 mile to feel a bit longer than 400s at the track (3rd inner lane). Is it? Or is it a garming thing? Splits where a few seconds slower for sure.

A 400 at the track (lane 1) is .2485 miles. We are talking a half a second of difference, not multiple seconds.

The Garmin GPS should not be used at the track. It doesn't handle the curves well so don't rely on that for anything.

I certainly use "400" and .25 interchangeably.

When at the track, I do "Mile" repeats by doing 4 laps which is 1600M and not exactly a full mile (.9942 miles). There you might add on two seconds.

Kenny, because you do your repeats in lane 3 (which I still can't understand why you do this, but whatever) you're doing more than .25. In lane 3, 4 laps on a track is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.04 miles I think. So, you're actually doing more than .25 when you do your repeats in lane 3. You should switch to lane 1 to make your paces more accurate and make sure you're in the pace range you're supposed to be.

Why do you do them in lane 3?

Dave-O wrote:Why do you do them in lane 3?

Because it's Kenny!

Dave-O wrote:Why do you do them in lane 3?

Because Jerry was using lane 1.

Schuey wrote:

Dave-O wrote:Why do you do them in lane 3?

Because it's Kenny!

He's an overachiever!

I do them in lane 3 because that is where I started 5 years ago so sticking to it as a comparison each time and running in lane 1 can reak more havoc on itb etc. my pt says stay in 3 so I stay. Sit boo boo sit good dog.

Chris M wrote:A 400 at the track (lane 1) is .2485 miles. We are talking a half a second of difference, not multiple seconds.

The Garmin GPS should not be used at the track. It doesn't handle the curves well so don't rely on that for anything.

I certainly use "400" and .25 interchangeably.

When at the track, I do "Mile" repeats by doing 4 laps which is 1600M and not exactly a full mile (.9942 miles). There you might add on two seconds.

This

Kenny B. wrote:I do them in lane 3 because that is where I started 5 years ago so sticking to it as a comparison each time and running in lane 1 can reak more havoc on itb etc. my pt says stay in 3 so I stay. Sit boo boo sit good dog.

This has me cracking up. Kenny is running in Lane 3 to make 400s that much harder on himself. But now I read the post above and Kenny is saying the track seems SHORTER to him than running 0.25 out on the streets? I'm so confused!!

Chris M wrote:

Kenny B. wrote:I do them in lane 3 because that is where I started 5 years ago so sticking to it as a comparison each time and running in lane 1 can reak more havoc on itb etc. my pt says stay in 3 so I stay. Sit boo boo sit good dog.

This has me cracking up. Kenny is running in Lane 3 to make 400s that much harder on himself. But now I read the post above and Kenny is saying the track seems SHORTER to him than running 0.25 out on the streets? I'm so confused!!

I just said it seems short. Trying to justify an off day of running repeats which was done on the roads. But I just got home and looked at my data and my last 400's many weeks ago was at 1:35 avg vs. 1:33 the other day on roads. So this whole thread is now moot!

Sorry!

Kenny B. wrote: So this whole thread is now moot!

Sorry!

No it is not because you bring up a great point about why you run in lane 3. It is not to necessarily make it harder on yourself it is to prevent overuse/repetitive injury. I have always disliked the track because after about the third or fourth track workout I end up injured. When I do go back to the track I will try running (probably just the curves) in teh outside lanes.

charles wrote:

Kenny B. wrote: So this whole thread is now moot!

Sorry!

No it is not because you bring up a great point about why you run in lane 3. It is not to necessarily make it harder on yourself it is to prevent overuse/repetitive injury. I have always disliked the track because after about the third or fourth track workout I end up injured. When I do go back to the track I will try running (probably just the curves) in teh outside lanes.

Thanks for the validation. Maybe I ain't that crazy as some say! Just maybe.

Kenny B. wrote:I do them in lane 3 because that is where I started 5 years ago so sticking to it as a comparison each time and running in lane 1 can reak more havoc on itb etc. my pt says stay in 3 so I stay. Sit boo boo sit good dog.

I got to thinking more about this and I could understand running in lane 3 if you were planning on running longer distances on the track (5+ miles). But you are only doing repeats which is only like 6-10 laps with a couple recovery laps. That means you are only running roughly 2-2.5 miles, sometimes less. Is that really enough distance to cause a repetitive injury?

I hug the inside line of the inside lane. That way, I don't have to run as far.

healdgator wrote:I hug the inside line of the inside lane. That way, I don't have to run as far.

It seems crazy to me to do it any other way. If the difference between tighter turns is that much of a risk, I'd suggest you really shouldn't be going anywhere near a track and speed work at all.

Nick Morris wrote:

Kenny B. wrote:I do them in lane 3 because that is where I started 5 years ago so sticking to it as a comparison each time and running in lane 1 can reak more havoc on itb etc. my pt says stay in 3 so I stay. Sit boo boo sit good dog.

I got to thinking more about this and I could understand running in lane 3 if you were planning on running longer distances on the track (5+ miles). But you are only doing repeats which is only like 6-10 laps with a couple recovery laps. That means you are only running roughly 2-2.5 miles, sometimes less. Is that really enough distance to cause a repetitive injury?

I do 2 mile warm up and 2 mile cool down usually so it ends up being somewhere from 6 -8 miles not 2-2.5

Chris M wrote:

healdgator wrote:I hug the inside line of the inside lane. That way, I don't have to run as far.

It seems crazy to me to do it any other way. If the difference between tighter turns is that much of a risk, I'd suggest you really shouldn't be going anywhere near a track and speed work at all.

I disagree as does my PT! Why run in the inner lane when you can get compare apples to apples all the same in the 3rd lane or for that matter any lane. I don't need to hug the turns I am not racing anyone on the track!

Kenny B. wrote:

I disagree as does my PT! Why run in the inner lane when you can get compare apples to apples all the same in the 3rd lane or for that matter any lane. I don't need to hug the turns I am not racing anyone on the track!

This reminds me of the quote from Kingpin where Ishmael bases his average score on 15 frames...because why only bowl 10 frames when you can bowl 15!

When I run at the track, it usually isn't speedwork (at least not any time lately) - its just a safe place to get in some junk miles at night, typically.

And then I run in lane 2, having figured out that I'm running just slightly over a mile in four laps, rather than ever-so-slightly under. Hate to shortchange the workout! : )

The only thing I use my Garmin for at the track is to count the laps for me, because I inevitably lose track, and it is accurate enough for that...

Geez Kenny, splitting hairs I'd say! You're more anal than I am! Wow

I'm always racing somebody on the track, even if I'm the only one there.

fostever wrote:Geez Kenny, splitting hairs I'd say! You're more anal than I am! Wow

Lane 3 is where it is at. Notice how they put the best runners in lane 3-4-5 when watching T&F.

Maybe I'm missing something here but what makes the outside lanes any less harder on your body? Aren't the turns the same length? I understand that the distance is longer as you move out lanes, that is the reason during track meets they use a staggered start for races were runners will stay in their lane for the whole race like the 200m and 400m. I just don't see how the radius of the turn is different from lane 1 and lane 8, hence making lane 8 easier on your body then lane 1.

Now if you are running in lane 1 on the straights and then moving out to an outside lane on the turns then you would make the turns less sharp.

Sorry I'm just not understanding your PT's thinking on this one Kenny? I guess I'm missing something here.

Kenny B. wrote:

fostever wrote:Geez Kenny, splitting hairs I'd say! You're more anal than I am! Wow

Lane 3 is where it is at. Notice how they put the best runners in lane 3-4-5 when watching T&F.

That's because they run the best qualifying times, still doesn't make the turns any easier to run then lane 1 or lane 8? Sure the outer lanes have less of the first turn to run then lane 1 but that is because of the staggered start.

Schuey wrote:That's because they run the best qualifying times, still doesn't make the turns any easier to run then lane 1 or lane 8? Sure the outer lanes have less of the first turn to run then lane 1 but that is because of the staggered start.

The more inside you are the more torque you're placing on your sides as you're having to lean further and further. For a 200m or 400m race you have almost zero chance of winning a race in the first lane. It can be done but extremely rare. When I ran track I always wanted to be in lane 7 for the 200m & 6 for the 400m.

For a 200m lane three is not really welcomed by the athletes as a preferred lane. There's always been talk of moving it out to 5, 6, & 7.