Trails and Travails

NGP (normalized graded pace) is the running equivalent to NP (normalized power) on a bike. It takes into account the gradient you're running on as well as your pace to give you a value that can be compared across any terrain. For example, if you're running 10 minute miles on an 8% slope, that's not going to be the same effort as 10 minute miles on flat ground. It's going to be way harder. So your NGP on that slope would be something like 7:30 (complete guess, but I think it's in that range).

Oh, and I just saved $60, apparently... I e-mailed the RD for the 34M I was trying to sign up for (link took me to a page that just said "registration is closed") and he finally got back to me today. "The race has been canceled for 2011." Well, okay. Looks like a 5hr time trial is coming up, then.

NGP sounds like a decent way to account for hills. Does it also account for downhills?
Too bad that the race was cancelled.

Yes, it accounts for downhills. I take both readings with a grain of salt, since a .5% difference in gradient can be a huge difference in NGP. And, I know I'm working harder than a 15:00 pace when I'm bombing down an 11-12% gradient at ~6:30. In the end, though, it evens out and seems to account for the overall difficulty of a run, so a flat 10 miler will have an NGP = pace, whereas one with a major hill (1000+' gain/loss) will have the NGP = pace-30sec or so.

Kind of bummed about the race, too, but I can put the money to other good use. And it's not like these things are much more than supported time trials, anyway, given the small field and huge discrepancy in paces and race strategies. I'll just make sure to stash some water and bring plenty of food.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Hmmm, I think it's the tibialis anterior AND extensor...

You know what, Mike? I bet it is. Remember when you were pursuing that other runner downhill, hanging on by the edge of your teeth? Well... those two muscles play a big role in managing your landing. They contract eccentrically to help absorb impact. If you were hammering down on them as much as it sounds like, it's no wonder they've been complaining.

Your stepback week seems well-timed.

Sounds right to me, Mark. I really need to get myself a physiology book or something. I think taking an actual class would ruin it for me, but maybe over winter break I'll grab a textbook and absorb.

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Five stupid miles followed by eight decent ones, today. Never fell into that mental groove, so when I looked at my watch and saw that I was only 42 minutes in, I wasn't happy. Fortunately, each mile after that felt a little better, and I pounded out the 13 in 1:39 (7:36 average pace). This was on roads, but not what I'd call flat. 550' in hills, with a 250' guy coming just after 11 miles in.

Double 5.5 recovery tomorrow and 15 Friday. Then rest rest rest.

Huh, never could get into that mental groove. Maybe you should run more



j/k...nice run today way to keep putting in the miles. I think you'll be more than ready to be an ultra man...

Nick Morris wrote:Huh, never could get into that mental groove. Maybe you should run more

LOL!

Nick Morris wrote:Huh, never could get into that mental groove. Maybe you should run more

j/k...nice run today way to keep putting in the miles. I think you'll be more than ready to be an ultra man...

Run more why would someone want to do that???

Hey Mike just wanted to say great week of training and keep it up. Your doing the right things to prepare yourself for your goal race of running 50 miles. All your harder work is going to payoff. And after you do the 50 miler and return back to marathon training there is no doubt you will see a huge gain in fitness and I have no doubt that the mileage you are putting in will payoff to running not only a PR but a sub 3 marathon.

Hey getting closer to application time for WS2012

Nick Morris wrote:Maybe you should run more

Mike - way to kill your training. You continue to work hard and it is a good inspiration to others. Keep up the great work!

I sure hope you're right, Schuey. I do feel like I'm over-cooking it a bit, though, and I'll be paying really close attention to the next 2 weeks to see where I go for my peak. Not sure if continuing the 100+mi weeks will be necessary/beneficial or if I should really focus on strong efforts on the long runs for those last couple weeks.

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6.3x this morning. I got to the turnaround on the canal and felt good so I decided I'd throw in a bonus loop around my house. Turns out the loop is just over a mile. Good to know, I guess. Funny watching my pace go from 8:25 average on the trail section to 7:4x for the most part on the road. And this is a relatively flat trail. I think it's just easier for me to let my feet move and not concentrate on where they're going, on the road.

My right foot is acting up a little bit. If I jog in place without shoes, it's pretty tender. I think it's near the ball of my foot, but closer to my third and fourth toes. I don't know. I tend to adjust to it in about 10 minutes once I get started, but it's still tender the rest of the day when I'm not running.

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Had a good epiphany moment last night after really thinking about my goals. Running (and training in general) for me has always been about having an enjoyable, therapeutic experience. Sometimes that comes from a really easy jaunt around the neighborhood, other times it comes from a killer tempo workout that leaves me feeling exhausted but simultaneously wired.

I'm sure most of you can tell... I haven't enjoyed my training much lately. It's exciting to hit these big numbers, sure, but it's not exciting to be stressed out about the weather every day or about how I'm going to squeeze in x-y-z or about anything else. This tends to happen around mid-cycle. I take the first half really seriously, get super strict about my daily routine, bedtime, eating habits, everything. I go type-A to the maximum... Then I realize that none of this is fun.

So instead of just telling myself to stop stressing, like I've been doing, I actually just... stopped stressing. A metaphorical "fuck it," so to speak. The truth is that this 50-mile race is going to be an unknown until I cross the finish line. The only things I DO know is that I WILL cross the finish line and that my best bet is to just enjoy the first 30-35 miles and if I have anything left, race the last 15-20. I'll probably be slow, and I probably won't have any idea about a reasonable time to expect until I'm in the last mile. Sure, I want to say I'll go sub-10:00 pace for sure, and probably stick to around a 9:00 pace (7.5hr finish), but I have no idea what these trails are like. It could rain (it did last year). The hills could rip me to pieces. Anything could happen.

That was the whole reason I signed up for a trail race instead of a marathon - to allow for the unknown, to embrace it, and to train for the sake of training rather than to hit a goal based on predictability. If I wanted that, I would've trained for a sub-3 marathon, because I know exactly how to do that and exactly how to pace the race itself. Would I meet my goal? I'd like to say yes. I'm confident that I'm capable of a sub-3 marathon without much issue.

Maybe that's the key to this whole thing: I'm unsure of what 50 is going to be, so I'm not confident about it. I've never done the distance. I've never done a run with over 10,000' of actual climbing.

I don't know what this means for the remainder of my training cycle. Right now, it feels like cross-training on the bike is a viable option to replace my double days. Because really, doubles suck. I don't like them. They feel obligatory. I don't know.

End bitch session.

Mike with the training you've been doing you're going to kill it that day. Then as Martin mentioned when step back down to do a marathon you'll have taken that to a whole new level.

It's official, and I'm ready to admit it: I'm in a slump.

I just bailed 3 minutes into this afternoon's run.

I really need to reexamine why I'm running as much as I am, if it's actually helping me, and what negative consequences it's having on me. For one, I really don't have the energy care about anything other than running, including school, and that's not good. I was really excited for this program and still am, but that's waned as fatigue has accumulated. I'm mentally burnt out with numbers. I'm sick of stepping out the door and feeling like I HAVE TO hit some number. Like a weekly total matters.

Yep, it's time to reaaaaally step back. Not just my mileage, but my attitude and perspective. Step back from this entire cycle and look at the big picture. Figure out what I'm running from, what I'm running towards, and why.

Tomorrow morning, I'm going to do "something" active. This much I know is true - I like being active. Whether it's on the bike or on my feet, I don't know.

I've got 10 or 11 weeks to go until my race. I forget which. That seems like more than enough time to take a little vacation from such structure and rigidity and figure my shit out. Because I'm not going to be able to push through it for another two-and-a-half months. Ugh.

Ok, your post worries me a bit, Mike; therefore, I think you need a couple of days away from the running shoes. I have been where you are (when I was just a bit older than you), and the results if you continue might not be pretty. So go for a ride tomorrow or a hike (NOT RUN) and maybe the next day as well. And do not beat yourself up over it.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Ok, your post worries me a bit, Mike; therefore, I think you need a couple of days away from the running shoes. I have been where you are (when I was just a bit older than you), and the results if you continue might not be pretty. So go for a ride tomorrow or a hike (NOT RUN) and maybe the next day as well. And do not beat yourself up over it.

What she said. Listen to her, she's somebody's mom!

Damn, sorry about that Mike. I know you have already struggled a little with this before. You have made big leaps in training mileage and have thrown a lot of speedwork in to boot. I know I always think about the physical side of things, but the mental side of everything is huge as well. I know I've read that when we are feeling like you do now and try to push really hard back at it, we run the risk of going into the overtrained status that can keep us down for weeks or even months. I know you are hugely motivated and hugely talented, but I have to think that taking some serious down time would not hurt you in the long run. It's hard because you are improving so fast. You have YEARS of fast running in front of you - some down time will not keep you from your ultimate goals (I remember your list!), but going over the edge might. Easy to give advice and it's not like I'm some running coach or anything, but as a friend I am just sorry that you are going through this crap and I hope it works out for you. Just be happy - if running at this volume and intensity isn't doing it for you right now, then readjust and then reattack. Hang in there...

Also, this is why I do 16 week cycles instead of 18. I can't stay mentally into it for those extra 2 weeks. And 14 would probably be even better for me.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm in a pretty big state of what-the-fuck shock right now. I had no idea how much was pent up in all of this, but it's definitely starting to pour out.

I guess it boils down to this:
I've been training consistently for almost 2 years. It has completely changed my life - there have been huge gains as well as huge sacrifices.
I consider myself a runner first, everything else second.
...I don't know how to even go about reconsidering that.

No decisions will be made for the next few weeks. I need to let this play out before pretending I have any idea where I'll be with some adequate rest and relaxation.

Mike MacLellan wrote:I'll preface this by saying that I'm in a pretty big state of what-the-fuck shock right now. I had no idea how much was pent up in all of this, but it's definitely starting to pour out.

I guess it boils down to this:
I've been training consistently for almost 2 years. It has completely changed my life - there have been huge gains as well as huge sacrifices.
I consider myself a runner first, everything else second.
...I don't know how to even go about reconsidering that.

No decisions will be made for the next few weeks. I need to let this play out before pretending I have any idea where I'll be with some adequate rest and relaxation.

Here's my recommend three-step program for you, Mike:

1: Step back from the cliff. This isn't a Zero-Sum Game. You can run AND have a life.

2: Refer back to 1 until you accept that it is, indeed, the case.

3: Find the balance. When in doubt, refer back to 1.

Also, to build on what Michele was saying...

It sounds like you're flirting with overtraining syndrome. I have been there, and it's not a place you want to visit. It is so much easier to learn how to read your body, assess your TOTAL (not just exercise-induced) stress level and learn how to find balance NOW than try to do it after picking up the pieces after a horrific physical-spiritual-emotional crash-and-burn. If you let it go too long, it can take years to recover.

The immediate action is to significantly cut back on your stressload for a couple of weeks and see if it helps. We're talking a 50% reduction in mileage with pretty much all of it at a low intensity. After two weeks, reassess. How do you feel? Be honest. If you're lucky, you've only overreached. Then you can work back up to it. If it's too late, well, it'll take longer. How long? As long as it'll take.

Reading list: Pick up a copy of The Maffetone Method: The Holistic, Low-Stress, No-Pain Way to Exceptional Fitness. You can get it cheap at Amazon.com, or a local used bookstore. He talks about total body stress and the affects it can have on your life. Even if you don't buy into his low heart rate training approach, his description of the impact of overtraining on your body is worth the price of the book.

After consulting with those of you who have responded, my mother, and a very good friend of mine, I'm going to do my absolute best to throw my hands up and let this thing play out how it needs to. The friend, who probably knows me better than anyone, brought to my attention my issues with overly-zealous self control and discipline... And I realized that the times that I've been happiest have been those when I just, stopped, caring.

Time to enjoy life for a bit. I'll be back at it, when I'm ready.

Yeah buddy - happiness is what it is all about. You will be fine - relax and enjoy the ride!

And now, more from the continuing melodrama henceforth known as Mike's (Possible) Burnout...

Waking thoughts:

If you want to just skip over the rest of this post and get the main point, I've noticed a pattern in all of my training. Mainly, I think I start structured training WAY too early for a race and subsequently lose motivation about a month or two before my taper starts. This time, I think I not only started too early, but peaked too early. Reasons follow.

Regarding Jim's comments about a 12/14/16 week training cycle, I've been steadily increasing mileage since after my marathon, and I haven't gone sub-50mpw since the beginning of June. Counting from there, this week would be week 17. Counting from July 4 (my 10k TT after which I "officially" transitioned to the 50-mile training), I'd be at week 12 right now.
My last training cycle, I had 21 weeks total, but 4 were purely building mileage, so it's either 17 or 21. I started losing some motivation in February (week 6 or 10), when I switched to doing some trail runs, added tempo intervals, and placed second in two races. Motivation returned in early March as I refocused, peaked for a trail half marathon, and went into peaking mode (week 12 or 16).
In summary, from week 6(10) to week 12(16), I struggled. The worst was the beginning of that section, because changing it up helped, a lot. I then peaked at week 14(18) and tapered into the race, week 17(21).

This time around, you might remember my motivation waning as the stress from moving built up. That was week 6(11). Again, now I'm at 12(17). The difference? I don't think I switched things up enough. I kept pushing through trail workouts that, ultimately, I wasn't enjoying. Yes, I definitely enjoyed a few, but I still just want a long, pancake flat road that I can crank out some sub-7s on and be done in an hour and a half. I kept adding to my weekend long runs, the very things that were beating me up the most, instead of maybe focusing on 1 mid-week long and 1 weekend long with a good bike ride thrown in for some mental variety. And what was I enjoying the most recently? My speedwork runs. They were new, they added variety, they kept it interesting.

All of this seems too much of a perfect match-up to be coincidental, so here's some more: the 34M I was training for as a tune-up race (A-priority) got canceled. That would've been week 16(21). I'm wondering if that was the equivalent mental blow of having "the" goal race canceled, as it was "a" goal race of mine...

Okay, I've been accused of focusing on the numbers too much, so here's a qualitative assessment, as well. I remember one very specific day from my last marathon cycle's peak. I showed up early for class to chat with everyone, as per usual, sat down at one of the tables in the lobby area, and immediately realized that I had zero interest in being social. Not only did I have zero interest, but I was about ready to strangle anyone who talked to me, much less asked me what was wrong. Which is exactly what they did. I was run-down, beat-up, and completely consumed by my training. I had zero energy to think about other things.

I don't think I need to go through my recent blog entries and copy the quotes where I say that last part almost verbatim. What I didn't post is how this entire last week at school (and some of last week), I was really, really curt with everyone who asked me anything that was in the slightest bit stress-inducing. Question about the homework? Fuck off. Oh, you're worried about the test we have? Learn to study better. Yeah, I was a real gem.

Conclusion? I think I peaked too soon. I think the last two weeks, culminating in that 28-miler, came 1 block too soon. I think I physically and mentally needed this week to be the beginning of a taper. The timing is right, the symptoms are all there (even if I ignored them)... I really might've overcooked it this time.

This entire thought process will likely flipflop a number of times in the next 24 hours, but right now, it's making perfect sense, so I wanted to get it written down in case it proves to be true. And regardless of whether or not I did peak too soon, it looks like a month of base followed by 14 weeks pre-taper is my absolute max, and even that is pushing it. I'm thinking that a month of base with maybe 4x 3-week blocks pre-taper is even better. Will I still be able to achieve my goals? I don't know, but I think that if my training is really focused on a good balance between quantity and quality, it's possible.

So ends the update on the saga henceforth known as Mike's (Possible) Burnout.

You may have noticed there's no mention of the 50-miler in December. That's because, well, there's no update on it. Still a big question mark. And I'm letting it stay that way until a decision comes to me loud and clear.

How many weeks out are you? I say you give your body a 3-4 week break where you're doing like 50 mpw and then you can hit it hard for another 2-3 weeks before you taper for the 50. You won't lose much (any) fitness and you'll still have time to re-acclimate to mileage, plus you won't be beat up mentally or physically.

You'll be fine, just relax and have fun with it. Which, I presume, is why you started running in the first place.

mul21 wrote:How many weeks out are you? I say you give your body a 3-4 week break where you're doing like 50 mpw and then you can hit it hard for another 2-3 weeks before you taper for the 50. You won't lose much (any) fitness and you'll still have time to re-acclimate to mileage, plus you won't be beat up mentally or physically.

You'll be fine, just relax and have fun with it. Which, I presume, is why you started running in the first place.

Good advice.

And don't forget to breathe! You'll get through this.

When you do get back out there find some places to run just for the fun of it. It sounds like finding some flat areas to do some running will help you mentally with breaking things up. If you can do it, I say don't follow a specific plan for a while. Try running when and where you feel like it to take the training pressure off of yourself. I know when I was out in the D.C. area running with Chris and Kevin they showed me some trails with a variety of surfaces and inclines, which I really liked. I had been having quad issues, but the variety compared to running in flat Chicago seemed to correct the issue.

I'm 10 weeks out, Jim.

While I'd love to say I'm still in the mindset of "there's a chance this training cycle isn't blown," I really don't care if it is. At this point, setting any sort of numerical goal for myself is a repulsive thought. I've stared at numbers for the last 2 years - miles, hours, elevation change, pace, lactate threshold pace, heart rate, calories, cups, grams, pounds - and they've basically acted as my house of cards. Great and impressive and stable as long as no one piece is jostled, but the whole thing falls apart when I pull one piece of the equation out.

I'm not saying that it's an all or nothing thing. I'm just saying that right now, it's a whatever-I-want-and-nothing-more-or-less thing, as Jim L suggested. The only difference is that the variety I want won't come on my feet; it'll come on a bike, or in a book, or from any of the other myriad hobbies and interests I've set aside to pursue running.

I'm sure I'll be back on my feet and bombing hills like a maniac at some point, and I'm sure of that because I'm "letting myself" stop now that the fun is gone. When the itch comes back, I'll scratch.

EDIT: 20 mile bike ride back in the hills. It was a lot of fun.