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Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

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Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Diego on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:54 am

I'm 2.5 weeeks out and severely undertrained. In the past, my most predictive workout was a 20 miler with the last 5-6 at HMP(off by only 0.33%).



But what about when you're undertrained?



Options:



1) 10 miler at marathon pace

2) A final 20 with 6 at MP or faster

3) A FCR of 40 minutes at a specific heart rate.

4) Yassos with shorter intervals

5) a 10k



Other options?
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Julie on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:46 am

Not sure. Maybe a 20 miler? I would just go out that morning and see what you felt like and try to hold a steady pace that you felt was sustainable. If it's slower or faster depending upon your training and the weather I wouldn't really stress out about it and just do what your body can handle that day.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Kenny B. on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:35 pm

2.5 weeks out from a marathon typically is not the time to gain more
fitness. So I am not sure what real benefit you will have on your
overall fitness by doing any of the options you mentioned.

I don't know where you are undertrained in. Endurance, speed, etc. So to pick which one is just guessing but Ill give you my 2 cents.

1) 10 miler at marathon pace If endurance is your issue I see no benefit.

2) A final 20 with 6 at MP or faster - I would go with this only for the confidence booster. doing 20 with 6 @ MP lets me know I can get to 26.2 no problem not sure if you will get there at your goal pace or are you looking to just finish.

3) A FCR of 40 minutes at a specific heart rate. I don't think this will get you in better shape in 2.5 weeks

4) Yassos with shorter intervals

5) a 10k I see no purpose at this point.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:50 pm

Well, Jim, I've run many a marathon undertrained, but I fear the difference here is that I had no expectations other than to finish upright and smiling. In each case, I assumed there was no changing the situation (undertrained), so I made certain to start out conservatively and then see how it went from there. At Myrtle Beach, I actually felt I would run sub-4 until the rain started (I ended up running 4:08) but my early miles were about 9:35-9;45 pace.



At this point, I would run the 20 miler more for the mental fitness than anything else. Adding the MP miles will give you a psychological boost, but I caution doing them if you aren't feeling it around miles 10-12. Just use it as a confidence booster as I think it has been a long time since you've raced a marathon.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  JohnP on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:50 pm

I think a variation of #2 - do a final 20 miler with the last 12-14 at MP. That's more predictive than just 6 at MP.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:35 pm

I'd be curious to know why you think you're undertrained.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:01 pm

The 20. Make it your last big workout, 2 weeks before race day. And do 10 at MP, not 6.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  mul21 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:22 pm

@ounce wrote:I'd be curious to know why you think you're undertrained.

Because of a broken ankle I believe.

And I'd do the 20 with as many MP miles as you think you can handle,
maybe up to 10. Assuming you're concerned about the number of miles
you've put in, that would be my choice.

Another option would the time on your feet run. Put in your 3:20 or
whatever it is you need for your BQ with no MP miles and call it a day.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Schuey on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:30 pm

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Well, Jim, I've run many a marathon undertrained, but I fear the difference here is that I had no expectations other than to finish upright and smiling. In each case, I assumed there was no changing the situation (undertrained), so I made certain to start out conservatively and then see how it went from there. At Myrtle Beach, I actually felt I would run sub-4 until the rain started (I ended up running 4:08) but my early miles were about 9:35-9;45 pace.



At this point, I would run the 20 miler more for the mental fitness than anything else. Adding the MP miles will give you a psychological boost, but I caution doing them if you aren't feeling it around miles 10-12. Just use it as a confidence booster as I think it has been a long time since you've raced a marathon.

I like what Michele had to say about her own experience and I like the advice she gives in the second paragraph. Approval
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  GregC on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:01 pm

@Schuey wrote:
@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Well, Jim, I've run many a marathon undertrained, but I fear the difference here is that I had no expectations other than to finish upright and smiling. In each case, I assumed there was no changing the situation (undertrained), so I made certain to start out conservatively and then see how it went from there. At Myrtle Beach, I actually felt I would run sub-4 until the rain started (I ended up running 4:08) but my early miles were about 9:35-9;45 pace.



At this point, I would run the 20 miler more for the mental fitness than anything else. Adding the MP miles will give you a psychological boost, but I caution doing them if you aren't feeling it around miles 10-12. Just use it as a confidence booster as I think it has been a long time since you've raced a marathon.

I like what Michele had to say about her own experience and I like the advice she gives in the second paragraph.

I like what Michele has to say in her first paragraph. If you're undertrained, you shouldn't worry about predicting a finishing time. Go out extra conservative and let the dictate your pace. You might surprise yourself, you might not, but this strategy will give you the best chance of finishing with a smile on your face.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Dave-O on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:42 pm

What about a Higdon special?



Sat - 10 miles at goal pace

Sun - 20 miles, starting at 20% slower, progressing to 10% slower



No guarantee, but when I was running lower mileage, that was always a confidence boost.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Diego on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:38 pm

@Dave-O wrote:What about a Higdon special?



Sat - 10 miles at goal pace

Sun - 20 miles, starting at 20% slower, progressing to 10% slower



No guarantee, but when I was running lower mileage, that was always a confidence boost.





Yep, that's probably what I'll do. It's easier mentally.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  Jeff F on Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:17 pm

jimd wrote:
@Dave-O wrote:What about a Higdon special?



Sat - 10 miles at goal pace

Sun - 20 miles, starting at 20% slower, progressing to 10% slower



No guarantee, but when I was running lower mileage, that was always a confidence boost.



Yep, that's probably what I'll do. It's easier mentally.



When you are adequately trained this two day workout is a tough workout. Being undertrained with a 2 week taper, I would do something a little more conservative. I would suggest you follow what Michele suggested.
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Re: Best predictive workouts for a marathon(trained/undertrained)

Post  pigoo on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:07 pm

I'm in the camp that says if you're undertrained (and you know it)...then just run your upcoming race just to finish...and finish in "one-piece" so to speak. If you try to run a pace that you've run in a previous race (but were in much better shape)...you're most likely going to "crash & burn".

You're more than likely not going to run a PR, and the race is most likely going to be hot. Just run to finish...then continue the training so that you're in "race shape" for a Winter or Spring marathon.

- Nick
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