Road to Nowhere

I have used S-caps for several years and it made a world of difference for me. Maybe it is all mental, but I have not cramped in a race even in the heat since I started taking them in 2005.

Mark B wrote:After my run today (which I will post presently), I hit a couple of running shoe stores.

I have a new pair sitting in a box on the kitchen table. Woot! Can't wait to try them out.

Those are some sweet looking shoes. I hope they work well for you.

ounce wrote:I started using them in July on long runs. I would pop two capsules before walking out the door. If I was running 18 or more miles on a run, I would bring along another capsule to take somewhere around mile 14-16.

It was totally transparent to the user. I couldn't tell you if it did any good or not. I had never taken any electrolytes on a long run in past years, so I did have a frame of reference from which to compare.

But the intake is quicker than Nuun or any flavored electrolyte alternative. And that's it's biggest benefit to me. I'll be taking 4 to Odessa, next week.

Sounds like a good idea. Even if it's not clear that they help, it shouldn't hurt to have the extra electrolytes on board.

I decided to try them (Endurolytes and S-Caps) after my last outing in Eugene, when my legs started hurting at Mile 3 and gave me fits the rest of the race. I have a hard time describing the senation. It was sort of a crampy feeling, though I've always thought of "cramping" as a muscle spasm, sudden and intense, not a slow-building continual thing like I experienced. Maybe one of you folks who run in a sweatbox could enlighten me on the subject.

At any rate, I'd noticed that Wendy and Tim were using Endurolytes in that race, and I tried them when I got on the trails. I noticed that, if I took it just as my legs started getting that sensation again, the feeling would go away. Again, whether it did something physiologically, or was more like Dumbo's magic feather, I can't say for sure. But it was preferable to the alternative.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I have used S-caps for several years and it made a world of difference for me. Maybe it is all mental, but I have not cramped in a race even in the heat since I started taking them in 2005.

Thanks, Michele! If what I was feeling in Eugene that time was indeed cramping (the all-over leg variety), it's not something I'd ever want to repeat.

T Miller wrote:

Mark B wrote:After my run today (which I will post presently), I hit a couple of running shoe stores.

I have a new pair sitting in a box on the kitchen table. Woot! Can't wait to try them out.

Those are some sweet looking shoes. I hope they work well for you.

Thanks, Tim! And thanks for the suggestion. (And thanks, Dave, as well; I see what you mean about the density of these sorts of shoes vs. even the Free 3.0s. These have a much more solid ride.) They felt pretty good on when I was testing them at the store (even though I had just finished a trail run), so I'm looking forward to trying them out when my legs are fresh.

They're pretty sharp looking, too, though I could do without the black-and-orange Oregon State colors. I'm going to get some grief from my Beaver-oriented coworkers (and my fellow Ducks) if I wear them on casual Friday.

One other thing regarding cramping, add Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc to your diet. Again, I have to take this in the form of a supplement as I was not getting enough (I had them measured), and that helps as well. I'm honestly not sure where you can pick up these nutrients in your diet except by eating "mixed nuts", so that is why I ended up with the supplement.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:One other thing regarding cramping, add Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc to your diet. Again, I have to take this in the form of a supplement as I was not getting enough (I had them measured), and that helps as well. I'm honestly not sure where you can pick up these nutrients in your diet except by eating "mixed nuts", so that is why I ended up with the supplement.

What sort of supplement are you using? A shortage of minerals may (or may not) explain my random cravings for stone-ground bean chips and ice cream.

It is actually a calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement that I get from Vitamin shoppe. I noticed yesterday that Trader Joe's has one as well, although I am not familiar with it. Might be worth checking out the one at TJs as it is less expensive.

Mark B wrote:
I decided to try them (Endurolytes and S-Caps) after my last outing in Eugene, when my legs started hurting at Mile 3 and gave me fits the rest of the race. I have a hard time describing the senation. It was sort of a crampy feeling, though I've always thought of "cramping" as a muscle spasm, sudden and intense, not a slow-building continual thing like I experienced. Maybe one of you folks who run in a sweatbox could enlighten me on the subject.

Can't help you on that one. I have my Sweatbox merit badge (now with oak leaf clusters), too. Maybe build your intake of potassium, etc. a couple of days before a race?

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:It is actually a calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement that I get from Vitamin shoppe. I noticed yesterday that Trader Joe's has one as well, although I am not familiar with it. Might be worth checking out the one at TJs as it is less expensive.

Thanks! I'll have to check it out. Most multivitamins with minerals do *not* go down easily for me.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:
I decided to try them (Endurolytes and S-Caps) after my last outing in Eugene, when my legs started hurting at Mile 3 and gave me fits the rest of the race. I have a hard time describing the senation. It was sort of a crampy feeling, though I've always thought of "cramping" as a muscle spasm, sudden and intense, not a slow-building continual thing like I experienced. Maybe one of you folks who run in a sweatbox could enlighten me on the subject.

Can't help you on that one. I have my Sweatbox merit badge (now with oak leaf clusters), too. Maybe build your intake of potassium, etc. a couple of days before a race?

Good idea, Ounce. Thanks.

My underlying question, though, is less about supplements to take than a definition of what constitutes cramping.

Is a cramp only when a single muscle seizes up in spasm, stopping you dead in your tracks? Or can it also be when *all* the muscles in your legs start to hurt all over without locking up?

Mark B wrote:

My underlying question, though, is less about supplements to take than a definition of what constitutes cramping.

Is a cramp only when a single muscle seizes up in spasm, stopping you dead in your tracks? Or can it also be when *all* the muscles in your legs start to hurt all over without locking up?

If I had to guess, I think it is a little bit of both.

Interesting, Michele. Thanks.

---


Walk: 2.2 miles

Weather: Sunny and 66. Nice!

I squeezed in a couple of miles during my lunch break. It's my hope to keep walking on my day shifts, to give me some active recovery - and keep me active - as I ramp up the miles.

Today's walk was nice, down to and along the Columbia River. It was nice to get the blood flowing.

You might take a look at the link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/health/nutrition/14BEST.html?_r=0

ounce wrote:You might take a look at the link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/health/nutrition/14BEST.html?_r=0

Thanks! I'll have to wait until Oct 1 to read it, though. I've maxed out on my free NYT views.

Thanks for the link, Doug. Very informative.

Oo! My home browser hadn't maxed out on NYT hits yet.

Interesting link! Thanks.

Here's another link you might find interesting, as well.

For Weight Loss, Less Exercise May Be More

I found the findings to support my own experience. Whenever I used to train for a marathon, I'd gain weight. I was only able to lose weight this year after I gave up marathon training and opted for more frequent, shorter runs, like I used to do when I was younger (and thinner). It worked!

Now, what will happen now that I'm considering crazy distances, we'll just have to find out...

Having not read the article yet, I agree that marathon training can put weight on you. You're hitting most of the same muscles all the time, your body is sending strong signals to eat and refuel, and I used to make eating for a long run as a license to carbo load...no matter the sauce. It takes some effort to keep it stable.

And when you're not training for a race, you can work different muscles which is conducive to weight loss. I'm not sure less exercise will always work, but different exercise should always work. Along with diet. Guess I should read the article to see how off base I am.

ounce wrote:Having not read the article yet, I agree that marathon training can put weight on you. You're hitting most of the same muscles all the time, your body is sending strong signals to eat and refuel, and I used to make eating for a long run as a license to carbo load...no matter the sauce. It takes some effort to keep it stable.

And when you're not training for a race, you can work different muscles which is conducive to weight loss. I'm not sure less exercise will always work, but different exercise should always work. Along with diet. Guess I should read the article to see how off base I am.

Great theories, but not exactly what the study explored.

In a nutshell, they studied two groups of runners. One group was to run lower miles, the other longer. Both were asked to log their eating and wear devices that measured their activity when they weren't running.

Here's what they found: the group with lower miles tended to eat a little less than expected to make up for the higher calorie expenditure. Those who did higher miles ended up eating more than they needed to make up for the calories burned during exercise. That surprised the researchers.

But here is where it gets really interesting. The data also revealed that the group that ran fewer miles remained active when they were not running - appearing even more energized than before - thus burning even more calories over the course of the day. The longer distance runners, on the other hand, tended to be far less active in their downtime as they (presumably) recovered from their run.

Run less, eat less, and end up more active for the rest of the day.
Run more, eat more, and end up less active for the rest of the day.

This has no bearing on training for a race, of course, but it does explain why it's so hard for so many people to lose weight when they ramp up the miles.

It shows how running for weight loss and general well being and training for races are not necessarily the same thing.

I was wondering about this earlier this year, long before I saw this study, when I was tipping the scale at 186 and was frustrated about my inability to run off my weight like I used to be able to do when I was in my 20s. Rather than write it off as a metabolism change as I get older, I thought about how I ran (and ate) back then, and I remembered that I ran a lot less - and ate a lot less without difficulty - and kept my weight low.

I tried replicating that approach... and I'm now down to about 160. I'm convinced. And, apparently, not old, either.

I remember reading something like this in Runners World and completely agreed with it. Even my son, who runs 100 miles a week, says that runners are the laziest people he knows. He wont even walk to a restaurant He basically sleeps, eats, and runs. It's really the law of moderation.

I have to say Mark, that you look fantastic! Whatever you are doing, it is working!

E Greenie

I've heard that about distance runners, too. It reminds me of greyhounds. They're either running at breakneck speed, or sleeping. Getting them to do anything in the middle is difficult.

Oh, and thanks. So far, so good. Let's see what happens when I try to add more miles to the picture.

Read that article and found it to be pretty true to my own experiences... Minus the fact that when I was running 100+mpw, I was sub-130. But if I'm in the 40-60mpw range, I don't lose much weight. Below that, I tend to double up and hit the gym, as well, which results in better aesthetics and lower weight. Go figure.

Either way, though, I'm lazy when I'm not running.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Read that article and found it to be pretty true to my own experiences... Minus the fact that when I was running 100+mpw, I was sub-130. But if I'm in the 40-60mpw range, I don't lose much weight. Below that, I tend to double up and hit the gym, as well, which results in better aesthetics and lower weight. Go figure.

Either way, though, I'm lazy when I'm not running.

That makes sense. It seems that if you're putting in 100+ mpw, it would be very difficult to regularly take in more calories than you expend, even if you do turn into a sofa slug as soon as you finish your runs.

I think it's possible to lose/maintain weight while running in the mid-mileage ranges... just a lot more difficult.

I agree that runners are inherently hazy - I tell people that about myself all the time, and they laugh!! Interesting about the exercise less/weigh less, but I can tell you that it doesn't apply to "old" women. The studies say we need to exercise at least 1 hr 5 days a week to keep off the lbs after certain age changes.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I agree that runners are inherently hazy - I tell people that about myself all the time, and they laugh!! Interesting about the exercise less/weigh less, but I can tell you that it doesn't apply to "old" women. The studies say we need to exercise at least 1 hr 5 days a week to keep off the lbs after certain age changes.

Interesting point, Michele. Studies like this are always a little self-limiting. It would be interesting if they replicated the study for different genders and age ranges, so gauge the differences - at least for weight loss. Hm. Sounds like an NIH grant application ready to be written!

Walk: 3.84 miles

Weather: Sunny, cool and breezy. 62 degrees.

I stretched out my lunchtime walk today, getting the most out of a nice early autumn day. I picked up the pace a little (I was playing hooky from work, after all), so it felt good when I turned around and felt a nice breeze in my face.

The view from near my turnaround point. (Hard to do it justice without a true panorama shot.)


And some autumn color on the way back.



I hope to make use of these nonrunning days for some walking, both for active recovery and for getting my body used to walking as well as running. I'll need to be conditioned in both areas if I want to do well at ultra distances, so I might as well build on the walking foundation I started earlier this year.iew

Low HR Run: 60 minutes (5.14 miles)

Weather: Sunny/hazy, 67. Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Post breakfast. Carried water.

This was my first run in my new Altra Instinct 1.5s. They are zero drop shoes with no appreciable arch support (I'm using the "Strengthen" insole that comes with it.), so they're closer than any shoe I've worn before (except Lunas) to allowing me to put my barefoot skills to work. My goal this morning was to get a feel for the shoes and how I move in them.

Quick conclusion? This is going to take some getting used to. I started out pretty well - I was even zipping along at a sub-9 pace at a low HR during parts of my warm-up mile, but it didn't take long for my HR to start to creep up into the lower 140s as I tried to hit the right foot strike, cadence and posture. I felt extremely uncoordinated. Getting my feet to react as if I was barefoot did not come naturally.

I tried forcing myself to slow down to get my HR back to my target of about 138, and I had some success, but it didn't take much to push the HR back up again. I had to walk several times when I passed my red line of 145.

Amid the frustration, however, I had a sense that this is the right thing to do. It'll take some work, but I think it'll be worth it.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR: 132