Re: 35, 5, and 2

mul21 Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:01 pm

Michele is dead on, as usual. I train on mostly flat rails to trails terrain right near my house and have to make it a point to get to something hilly at least once a week during marathon training. I paced a half a few weeks ago and not having done any running on hills recently had my quads feeling pretty beat up at the end of the race even at a pace that I was pretty comfortable with aerobically.

Also, you do need to do some running on flat terrain if you're training for a flat race because, as Michele said, that consistently flat course will wreak havoc on your hamstrings by the end of the race. Mine both nearly cramped on me coming up the Roosevelt bridge a couple years ago in Chicago.

Mark B Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:23 pm

ounce wrote:So, Saturday afternoon in Houston brought a really excellent Spring storm. Wind, lightning, hail, but no loss in power. In some areas, it rained and hailed so hard that the hail was being floated by the runoff to the storm drains. I got 2 inches.

This morning was the rematch of the 8 mile run from yesterday. To shortly recap, I'm comparing the April 12th, 47 degree effort of 12:08 pace at 145 avg HR against an 8 mile run where the temperature was 65 degrees. I did that yesterday and got a 12:23 pace at 143 avg HR. I wasn't thinking I did the run correctly because I wanted to see what my HR would be to maintain a 12:08 pace, when the temperature was 18-20 degrees warmer. Short enough?

This morning it was 65 degrees with a dewpoint of 62. It was breezy and it seemed drier than yesterday. I took Mark's observation to watch my 1st half pace, so I don't go out too fast.

8.10 miles, 1:37:29, 12:01 pace, 148 bpm avg, 165 max HR during mile 4, 1st half pace 12:07, 2nd half pace 11:55.

12.16, 137 bpm, max 157
12:20, 139 bpm, max 148
12:05, 147 bpm, max 157
11:51, 154 bpm, max 165
11:56, 151 bpm, max 163
11:52, 154 bpm, max 164
12:09, 152 bpm, max 157
11:41, 154 bpm, max 159

So this is the information for which I was looking. The mile 4 time was caused by chasing down someone in front of me because he looked like he was running about the same pace I was doing. It took about 3/4ths of a mile to do it, then we chatted about the storms yesterday. But I got that pace feeling in my mind and then try to replicate it in subsequent miles, plus I didn't want to lose any time to slowing. That was a little bit of motivation, in addition to the goal of running the April 12 pace, no matter the HR.

I was getting tired at mile 6, but I kept watching my pace as it slowly decreased to 12:03, then 12:04 during mile 7. At that point, I started fretting about it increasing in the final mile. I never looked at the heart rate in the 2nd half and I wasn't concerned because I had all the input from my legs and breathing. I increased the speed just a little bit and it went down to 12:03, then to my surprise 12:02, and finally 12:01. Holy crap!

I really worked on that run. I didn't max out during any of the runs, but it was challenging.

And for the sake of comparison again - April 12 - 47 degrees,
8 mile run, 1:37:34, 12:08 avg pace, 145 avg HR, 160 max HR during mile 8, 12:23 first half average and 11:53 2nd half pace

12:20, 138 bpm
12:46, 139 bpm
12:23, 144 bpm
12:01, 149 bpm
12:05, 144 bpm
12:06, 147 bpm
12:01, 147 bpm
11:26, 150 bpm

Looking at the mile 4 times for each run, they were a foretelling as to the times for subsequent miles. Guess I have fretting about pace and times down pretty good. I'm very tired, though. So I can run a similar pace when it's warmer and more humid, but it sure takes more effort.

Do y'all think I should try to maintain an average in the 140's through the Summer? I am thinking that I should, but maybe every once and a while to run another pace run possibly as a comparison against the 47 degree run. I know my heart rate will lower, as my body and heart get more efficient with the pace. Thanks for your time.

Nice! Yes, I would suggest picking a lower heart rate and sticking with it for your aerobic runs. That will leave you fresher for one more uptempo run a week. One where you let your HR get to 160 or so. That would supplement your aerobic work and build your stamina. Just don't overdo it. Five or six miles should do it for that type of run.

ounce Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:30 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Doug - I'm responding over here to a question that you asked Mark about running hilly vs. non-hilly terrain and how it might equate. I have lived and trained in both hilly terrain (Atlanta) and flatlands (west side of Cleveland). I find that everyday running over hills made my body stronger in many ways as I had to use more variety of muscles; however, I also had to make sure to do long runs for marathons like Chicago on flat terrain because those same muscles would get quite mad in the latter miles since they were only being used in one way. I don't think that I ever ran any faster on the flatter courses because I trained on hills but more because they were simply "easier" overall courses. However, I ran a 1:40 half in November in Atlanta on a hilly course before running the 1:37 in Houston. I did not taper for the Atlanta race - what if I had? That being said, I had a tough time over the hills at Boston this time because I did not have the ability to get to the hills (east side of Cleveland) this winter due to weather, cold, etc. I expected this. I was definitely stronger on the flat course that I ran this past weekend than I was over the hills.

During the summer, I train over very hilly terrain, even hillier than Atlanta, I think this will provide a good balance in my training as now I will be able to benefit from the flat and hilly worlds, something that I couldn't do in Atlanta. This fall racing will be a test as I will be back in flat Cleveland and run a moderately flat course in Indianapolis.

Runners like Dave-O and Schuey could probably give some good perspective on racing Boston vs. Chicago and training in Chicago. I think they do hill work on their treadmills which was something I could only do sparingly this winter, but will (hopefully) be able to do without question next winter.

mul21 wrote:Michele is dead on, as usual. I train on mostly flat rails to trails terrain right near my house and have to make it a point to get to something hilly at least once a week during marathon training. I paced a half a few weeks ago and not having done any running on hills recently had my quads feeling pretty beat up at the end of the race even at a pace that I was pretty comfortable with aerobically.

Also, you do need to do some running on flat terrain if you're training for a flat race because, as Michele said, that consistently flat course will wreak havoc on your hamstrings by the end of the race. Mine both nearly cramped on me coming up the Roosevelt bridge a couple years ago in Chicago.

Thanks, you two, very much. Living in Houston, I have all the flat I can handle. But in miles 20-25 miles of the course, there are 3 underpasses and in between there are some undulations. I guess I can run a stepback week long run on the rolling hills. That should be enough.

This fills in a gap in the training plan. Very Happy

ounce Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:32 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:So, Saturday afternoon in Houston brought a really excellent Spring storm. Wind, lightning, hail, but no loss in power. In some areas, it rained and hailed so hard that the hail was being floated by the runoff to the storm drains. I got 2 inches.

This morning was the rematch of the 8 mile run from yesterday. To shortly recap, I'm comparing the April 12th, 47 degree effort of 12:08 pace at 145 avg HR against an 8 mile run where the temperature was 65 degrees. I did that yesterday and got a 12:23 pace at 143 avg HR. I wasn't thinking I did the run correctly because I wanted to see what my HR would be to maintain a 12:08 pace, when the temperature was 18-20 degrees warmer. Short enough?

This morning it was 65 degrees with a dewpoint of 62. It was breezy and it seemed drier than yesterday. I took Mark's observation to watch my 1st half pace, so I don't go out too fast.

8.10 miles, 1:37:29, 12:01 pace, 148 bpm avg, 165 max HR during mile 4, 1st half pace 12:07, 2nd half pace 11:55.

12.16, 137 bpm, max 157
12:20, 139 bpm, max 148
12:05, 147 bpm, max 157
11:51, 154 bpm, max 165
11:56, 151 bpm, max 163
11:52, 154 bpm, max 164
12:09, 152 bpm, max 157
11:41, 154 bpm, max 159

So this is the information for which I was looking. The mile 4 time was caused by chasing down someone in front of me because he looked like he was running about the same pace I was doing. It took about 3/4ths of a mile to do it, then we chatted about the storms yesterday. But I got that pace feeling in my mind and then try to replicate it in subsequent miles, plus I didn't want to lose any time to slowing. That was a little bit of motivation, in addition to the goal of running the April 12 pace, no matter the HR.

I was getting tired at mile 6, but I kept watching my pace as it slowly decreased to 12:03, then 12:04 during mile 7. At that point, I started fretting about it increasing in the final mile. I never looked at the heart rate in the 2nd half and I wasn't concerned because I had all the input from my legs and breathing. I increased the speed just a little bit and it went down to 12:03, then to my surprise 12:02, and finally 12:01. Holy crap!

I really worked on that run. I didn't max out during any of the runs, but it was challenging.

And for the sake of comparison again - April 12 - 47 degrees,
8 mile run, 1:37:34, 12:08 avg pace, 145 avg HR, 160 max HR during mile 8, 12:23 first half average and 11:53 2nd half pace

12:20, 138 bpm
12:46, 139 bpm
12:23, 144 bpm
12:01, 149 bpm
12:05, 144 bpm
12:06, 147 bpm
12:01, 147 bpm
11:26, 150 bpm

Looking at the mile 4 times for each run, they were a foretelling as to the times for subsequent miles. Guess I have fretting about pace and times down pretty good. I'm very tired, though. So I can run a similar pace when it's warmer and more humid, but it sure takes more effort.

Do y'all think I should try to maintain an average in the 140's through the Summer? I am thinking that I should, but maybe every once and a while to run another pace run possibly as a comparison against the 47 degree run. I know my heart rate will lower, as my body and heart get more efficient with the pace. Thanks for your time.

Nice! Yes, I would suggest picking a lower heart rate and sticking with it for your aerobic runs. That will leave you fresher for one more uptempo run a week. One where you let your HR get to 160 or so. That would supplement your aerobic work and build your stamina. Just don't overdo it. Five or six miles should do it for that type of run.

Yes, Mark, that sounds logical. My diabolical scheme is coming along.

ounce Thu May 02, 2013 7:23 pm

It's been a challenging week with three days of CrossFit and an 8 mile run today. The next paragraph or two relates to CrossFit and is not related to running, so if you want to pass this on by, this is your chance. I'm typing it 'for the record.'

Usually, 3 days of CrossFit isn't so tiring that I can't run 8 miles on Thursday. But since the month of May has Memorial Day in it, our box makes every Wednesday this month a WOD named for a hero in the military. These are usually ball busters, more so than the non-hero WOD's. Wednesday's WOD was "Wood", named for an Australian seargent. The WOD consisted of:

5 rounds for time:
400m run
10 burpee box jumps (20")
10 Sumo Deadlift high-pulls (55 lbs)
10 Thrusters (55 lbs)
1 minute rest

Usually, I will do well against the others when a 400m or longer run is included because the others, while stronger, don't have the endurance I have. Jeez, my heart rate is increasing just thinking about it. It took me 35:58 to finish the WOD and I finished about 3 minutes before the next person. I changed up the WOD just a bit by doing the run after the thrusters, then do a 1 minute rest. This settled my heart rate some (from 172 bpm to 157 bpm) prior to the 1 minute rest, which then reduced it to 140 bpm. I had an average bpm of 157 (78%) and a max of 175 (87%). I was very tired. The legs were not wobbly, but overly used.

*30*

This morning, 8.75 miles was the plan. My legs from yesterday's WOD didn't appear to be tired when I woke up. It was 70 degrees outside with a dewpoint of 65. A cold front (the 4th in 5 weeks) is due around midday and is to generate a Friday morning low of 46 and a Saturday morning low of 42. The 42, if it happens, will be the coldest morning temperature in May in Houston. Galveston's 52 degree low for Friday morning will break a record going back to 1876. This is caused by the snow pack that stretches to Kansas not allowing the front's air to warm until it gets to Oklahoma.

8.14 miles, 1:43:13, 12:40 pace, 144 avg bpm, 159 max bpm during mile 4, 12:30 1st half pace, 12:50 2nd half pace.

12:21, 133 bpm
12:28, 139 bpm
12:38, 143 bpm
12:27, 150 bpm
12:38, 150 bpm
12:41, 145 bpm
12:54, 145 bpm
13:05, 145 bpm

Wednesday's WOD after effects hit me at mile 3. It was laboring to have a heart rate in the 150's for a time that wasn't sub-12. So, I started slowing down, despite efforts to stabilize the average time. I finally just stopped and walked the rest of the six-tenths. I am very fortunate to not have any muscular issues.

For tomorrow's run, I think I'll just do a lazy little run in the mid-40's weather and run in the 130's average HR. And in subsequent weeks in May, I'll skip the Thursday run when I do a hero WOD.

Thanks for stopping by. Please give your free fries coupon to the cashier.

ounce Fri May 03, 2013 6:03 am

This'll be quick. 46 degrees with a 10-15 mph north wind.

The plan was to run around 2 hours in the 130s. I got about two-tenths and my quads were respectfully requesting that I not continue. You know that feeling of trash in the muscles the day after a long run or longer? That feeling. So, I turned around and went home. I have nothing to prove, today.

Mark B Fri May 03, 2013 9:48 am

Too late for the fries? Dangit!

It's no wonder your Thursday run got so difficult, so soon. That CrossFit session looked brutal. In addition to the basic work on the muscles, you took a drink from the fire hose of physiological stress that day. Oof!

I think you were wise to ease back today. In the future, if you can do it, it might be better to let Thursday be a lower-intensity day and do you 8-miler on Friday. That will let you take advantage of the hard-easy principle, and improving the benefit from the workouts with a smaller chance of injury or burnout.

42? Egad! Watch out for polar bears. (It's supposed to be 80-86 here through the weekend. Joel apparently brought the heat with him in the bag. Luckily, the humidity all leaked out before he got here.)

ounce Fri May 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Don't Oregonians melt at 81 degrees when it happens before July?

I do need to figure out the balance between running and CrossFit. Fortunately, I don't have to start any marathon training until September, but I still need to work a plan that keeps at least the spirit of the theme of this cycle's training ongoing plus the mileage and still do CrossFit.

I probably will include Sunday evenings for something. I haven't had any troubles running before CrossFit, just after, especially when there's a lot of lower body work.

Your fries coupon is still valid.

Mark B Fri May 03, 2013 3:48 pm

Melt? Well, sometimes, yes. But it's a dry heat, so it doesn't feel oppressive. Just warm.

The scary thing that happens is that people throw on shorts and head to lakes and streams where the water is barely above wintertime temperatures, and they quickly get in trouble. I'm working on Saturday and wondering if we'll have any drownings this weekend. Hope not.

I think you can manage to work CrossFit into a schedule. You'll just need to assess the intensity of that session and follow it with a less intense run to make sure you don't overdo it. Better to build yourself up than break yourself down.

Mmm. Fries. What sort of sauce do you suggest?

ounce Fri May 03, 2013 10:39 pm

Catsup, unless you prefer Ketchup.

dot520 Sat May 04, 2013 7:43 pm

You guys are funny, especially about the weather! You are becoming some sort of beast there with your physical training and running. Awesome! Yes, it's good to take care of the muscular components of our body and take care not to get injured while NOT running. That would suck.

ounce Sun May 05, 2013 10:02 pm

Wise words, Dot. Thanks for them. Fortunately for me, upper body strength is worked on more often in CrossFit than lower body strength. And I have read that for every pound of muscle one builds, that it burns 100 calories a day. I have the rest of the Summer to do CrossFit, before I trim it back for the marathon training cycle. I also get to do yoga at CrossFit, too.

ounce Thu May 09, 2013 6:35 pm

So, I wasn't able to run before Wednesday evening and decided to do just that. I wanted to do some speed work and, further decided to do a tabata. Since I hadn't run since last week, I felt I had to do a warm up.

I felt that two miles should do it. I drove over to Memorial Park and ran two miles over to the 440 yd track. I have a (bad?) habit of wanting to stay with someone whom I feel is at a similar pace, in order to see how far I can stay with that person. It doesn't happen very often, but I found someone to stay with and run. I am also developing a habit that once I get at a certain pace, for whatever reason, I will try to stay on that pace as long as I can.

I kept the same distance with this guy, but he ended up just running a half of a mile and then stopped. But I kept up the pace afterwards for the balance of the 2 miles. I looked at my watch and saw he was running an 11:23 pace. Really?! The pace was challenging, but not onerous until I reached 1.5 miles. I convinced myself into believing that it was just another 1/2 mle and to keep going. I finished and rested about 10 minutes before the tabata.

2 miles, 22:54, 11:27 pace, 152 avg HR (76%), max HR 165 bpm during mile 1. About 75 degrees and quite pleasant.

11:23, 152 bpm
11:31, 152 bpm

The tabata was 10 reps of sprinting for 20 seconds, then resting for 10 seconds. It took about 5 minutes and was nice to accomplish. This morning, I wasn't too wore out at all before my morning run.

I was pleased at the pace for both running events.

ounce Thu May 09, 2013 10:22 pm

This morning, I was figuring to run the 6.66 mile course so I could assess the effects of the Wednesday night speed workout. It's warming up now and this morning's temp was around 71 degrees. I wasn't going to run a 12:20 average pace, but to just clock in the mileage at a comfortable, probably low 130's bpm rate.

6.75 mles, 1:29:51, 13:18 pace, 128 avg bpm (64%), max HR 147 bpm during mile 4, 1st half pace 13:33, 2nd half 13:03

13:35, 117 bpm
13:32, 123 bpm
13:31, 125 bpm
12:52, 132 bpm
13:08, 131 bpm
13:30, 131 bpm
12:52 pace, 138 bpm

My legs were probably 90% ready for this morning's run. They were a little sore in the first half, but that resolved itself in the 2nd. I wasn't swooning over the time paces, but my legs probably needed it. In addition, it was warmer and my rule of thumb is to add 30 seconds a mile for anything ran

Friday will be a rest day and then Saturday morning will bring a longish run.

Mark B Thu May 09, 2013 11:06 pm

Hard-easy, that's the ticket, Doug! Nice job on the speedwork.

ounce Sat May 11, 2013 7:06 pm

It must be a gift, Mark.

*30*

I had no distance in mind when I ran today. I knew it was going to be at least 10 miles. It was about 65 degrees, cloudy and not too muggy at all. It has rained hard in Houston in the past 24 hours, so I was going to try to avoid the usual muddy areas.

I believe it gets muggy once it gets above 70 degrees, with the dewpoint close to the ambient temperature. I'll have plenty of the summer to figure that one out.

The first five miles were not spectacular because my legs felt dead. I didn't eat any specific carbs in the 36 hours prior, so that explains that. I did have a banana before heading out, though. As the first couple of miles were around a 12:45 pace, that was the slowest I planned to run.

13.72 miles, 2:54:18, 12:42 average pace, 144 average bpm, 166 max HR during the last mile, 12:41 1st half split and 12:43 for the 2nd half.

12:43, 137 bpm
12:46, 134 bpm
12:42, 138 bpm
12:43, 140 bpm
12:48, 139 bpm
12:27, 141 bpm
12:37, 142 bpm
12:44, 141 bpm
12:44, 146 bpm
12:46, 146 bpm
12:29, 152 bpm
12:50, 151 bpm
12:57, 154 bpm
12:20 pace, 162 bpm

I decided on 14 miles just before getting to Memorial Park (at mile 3) to see what I could do. It's the longest I had run since Houston in January. The last 3 miles were rather difficult, as evidenced by the times and heart rate. I got into some mud with 2.5 miles to go. Then I found a rain puddle right after that, so I stopped and got my shoes cleaned off, then proceeded. It was fun to play in the puddle like a little kid. My shoes and socks were soaked, but it beats having to clean it off when the mud dries.

I really worked to keep that 12:42 pace until the end. With a mile to go, it notched up to 12:43, but I worked to get it down and succeeded.

I'm pleased to have run it, even though I'm sore in the muscles. But, I haven't been trying to work up to a 14 mile long run, much less keeping it under 13 minutes.

Mark B Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 pm

Nice way to improvise your run as you went. Especially the impromptu shoe wash! Very Happy

Michele "1L" Keane Sun May 12, 2013 10:57 am

Nice work, Doug!

ounce Sun May 12, 2013 6:35 pm

Thanks, Mark and Michele. I appreciate it.

Separately, I woke up this morning with no residual pain or stiffness. I made a point of it to stay on my feet alot of yesterday afternoon doing some cooking to hopefully make the stiffness a minor issue, today. That worked. Ah, active recovery is good for me.

ounce Tue May 14, 2013 7:23 pm

This morning I ran 3 miles before my 5 a.m. CrossFit class. My time increased more than I would have liked, but that's the way it goes. I seemed to be a little flat. The first mile was fine, but that was it.

64 degrees with a high 50's dewpoint (we're expecting our first 90 degree day for the month of May, this weekend).

3 miles, 35:43, 11:58 pace, 141 avg bpm, 150 max bpm during mile 1.

11.26, 141 bpm
11:53, 143 bpm
12:25, 141 bpm

CrossFit was working on dead lifts and strict presses. The conditioning part of the class was:

A 7 minute cutoff for 200m Farmer's Carry (a kettlebell in each hand. I chose a 45 lb for each hand), then a 400m row, and finally 100 double unders. I'm not fast enough to do any double unders, so I get to do 300 single under jump ropes. I only managed 212 before the 7 minutes was up.

ounce Wed May 15, 2013 9:28 pm

Only objective on the agenda today was the named CrossFit WOD, which was "Jack". "Jack" consisted of:

For 20 minutes, I did As Many Reps As Possible (AMRAP) sets of 10 - 65# Push Press, 10 - 35# American Kettlebell swings, and 10 - 20" box jumps. I ended up doing 7 complete rounds plus 1 set of push press. The instructor for the class told me afterwards that I should go up to a 45# kettlebell because where I was struggling in the later rounds with the push press, I didn't struggle with the kettlebell in the later rounds.

When I re-started CrossFit in February, I was doing 35# on the Push Press, 25# on the kettlebell, and using a 16" box. I've been working on upper body strength and trying to get strong enough to do a pull up. Just 1 pullup. I'm still a long ways from that. I ought to be able to use a 24" box, now.

Separately, I have been scouring the web and local stores for some compression shorts to replace the Insport brand I've been wearing for 10 years. New Balance bought Insport about 4 years ago, then either shut them down or just disabled Insport's website. So, I finally found the shorts I have been looking for for about 4 months at a place called 'weplaysports.com' I bought 3 pairs. My 3 old pairs have been wearing out and my new pairs arrived in the mail today! They are the exact same shorts. I might have to buy 3 more pairs, so I have a stock of them. I will wear the first one, tomorrow. I'm a happy camper.

Mark B Wed May 15, 2013 11:54 pm

New shorts! Woot!

I hear you on the pull-ups. I haven't even attempted one in years (decades?). I think at my best I managed maybe 5-8? I've always been impressed with folks who could whip out a dozen pull-ups without any seeming effort. How do they do that?

Stay cool...

Michele "1L" Keane Thu May 16, 2013 8:02 am

Keep working at it, Doug. I never really liked Crossfit, but I do work with a trainer at least 2x per week which has really helped me over the years. I attribute some of my issues this year to not working with someone in the fall and losing some of the strength that I had gained. When I started in 2004, I couldn't do one pushup, and now I can do sets of 30 regular, and some one armed. I can also do about 6 pull ups (unassisted). On the pull up fronts - well, I am a bit smaller - so to put it in perspective, i only use a 15# kettlebell and cannot do a box jump (phobia not ability). Keep working it!

ounce Thu May 16, 2013 11:47 am

Thanks for y'alls thoughts.

Michele, when I started 2 years ago, the highest I could box jump was a stack of 1 - 35 lb plate and 2 - 25 lb plates for the same phobia and because I'd never done something like that. Phobia really kicks in when you have to do a box jump OVER.

I'm working on doing a regular push up and I'm just about there. Smile

*30*

This morning, I decided to run 8 miles to see what happens. I was curious what pace I would be able to start and keep, any residual aches from yesterday's "Jack", and heat acclimation.

It was 69 degrees with a dewpoint of 68 and barely a breeze. Summer mornings are beginning to return to Houston. A light shower started about 2 miles into the run and kept up until the end of mile 4.

8.08 miles, 1:48:13, 13:23 pace, 134 avg bpm, 149 max HR during mile 6, 1st half pace 13:34, and 2nd half pace was 13:12.

13:34, 123 bpm
13:37, 128 bpm
13:39, 130 bpm
13:28, 137 bpm
13:26, 136 bpm
13:33, 137 bpm
13:06, 138 bpm
12:45, 143 bpm

I was disapponted that all but one of the miles were above 13 minutes. To me, it means that it's not second nature for me to run sub-13's, yet. A year ago, I ran a 13:03 pace for the same distance, but I was 20 lbs lighter then. I"m working on getting back down to that wieght. I haven't lost much this Spring, but pants fit easier, so I'm building muscle which is heavier than fat. And every pound of muscle burns 100 calories a day, so that's a bonus.

Tomorrow is a long run. Distance yet to be determined. Thanks for your comments and atta boys.

Dave P Thu May 16, 2013 5:30 pm

It's always a good thing to be happy about when your last mile is your fastest.

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