Thoughts on a New Training Approach

Not sure how to improve your marathon time, but I do know what hippie moves would kill your marathon karma, ultra and barefoot.

I'd suggest doing what you think you are going to enjoy the most. My guess from what you wrote is that trail running and ultras are what you'd enjoy more... shorter distance racing is (as you know) hard, intense work. Trails and ultras are a whole different animal... much more relaxed and 'zen'-like... but still grueling in their own way.

Follow your joy and you really can't go wrong. Marathons will still be there when/if you decide to race another one.

I agree with Matt. I did the same after my marathon PR, and I focused the next few yrs of my running life on 10Ks and half marathons as they are really what I enjoy (even today) the most. After this training cycle, I might focus on half marathons yet again. I think either way the strength and/or speed that you will gain will benefit you in the long run.

I'd say Option #3, with an emphasis on the ultra distances. You don't need to run trails every day to have good success on trail races. And those long, slower runs to get ready for ultra distances just might give you an extra aerobic boost when you go back to the marathon distance. Throwing in a few competitive 5K or 10K races might keep it exciting and prevent those fast-twitch muscles from falling to sleep.

I say option #3. It's funny, our trajectories have been very similar over the last couple years. I was shooting for a sub 2:50 this fall and failed. My next adventure is to do a 50 miler in April and then I'll shift to triathlon and shorter distance running events over the summer. Depending on how all that goes and how I'm feeling, I may just give 2:50 another attempt in the fall. I say that you should mix it up a little to keep it interesting and break it up into periods with a different focus for each.

T Miller wrote:I say option #3. It's funny, our trajectories have been very similar over the last couple years. I was shooting for a sub 2:50 this fall and failed. My next adventure is to do a 50 miler in April and then I'll shift to triathlon and shorter distance running events over the summer. Depending on how all that goes and how I'm feeling, I may just give 2:50 another attempt in the fall. I say that you should mix it up a little to keep it interesting and break it up into periods with a different focus for each.

It's funny,our trajectories have been very similar over the last couple years as Jerry is thinking about P90X.

Jerry wrote:

T Miller wrote:I say option #3. It's funny, our trajectories have been very similar over the last couple years. I was shooting for a sub 2:50 this fall and failed. My next adventure is to do a 50 miler in April and then I'll shift to triathlon and shorter distance running events over the summer. Depending on how all that goes and how I'm feeling, I may just give 2:50 another attempt in the fall. I say that you should mix it up a little to keep it interesting and break it up into periods with a different focus for each.

It's funny,our trajectories have been very similar over the last couple years as Jerry is thinking about P90X.

All I have to say is "Bring It!"

Going to throw in my 2 cents:

Option 3 does sound like the most "fun," but if you're really wanting to hit some ultra PRs and excel at that distance, a year is not enough time, much less just 6-8mo before you transition to faster stuff. I know you've done some longer-than-marathon running, but once you throw trails in the mix, it's a completely different animal.

That said, as long as you can get on trails twice a week, you should be good to go. Just learn to run downhill very fast and very carefully; supposedly that's how the races are won.

Mr MattM wrote:I'd suggest doing what you think you are going to enjoy the most. My guess from what you wrote is that trail running and ultras are what you'd enjoy more... shorter distance racing is (as you know) hard, intense work. Trails and ultras are a whole different animal... much more relaxed and 'zen'-like... but still grueling in their own way.

Follow your joy and you really can't go wrong. Marathons will still be there when/if you decide to race another one.

+1. It's no fun, if it's work.

Both 1 and 2 will provide long term benefit for your marathon fitness. So, why not 6 months of each? Frankly, focusing on speed work and hard intervals is easier to do in the warmer months. I would lean towards a 4-6 month aerobic endurance/trails/ultra period, and then transition back to getting some speed in those legs.

I say do what you enjoy the most. If that's both, then do both.
I still do some speed training while training for ultras. You may be surprised with the carryover effects of ultra training to shorter distances. I increased my ultra training and racing this year, but still got a new marathon PR this fall (with a 6 min. negative spilt so apparently I could have gone faster) mostly because my endurance increased. The race felt short after doing 8 hr. stuff.