California here we come...

ounce wrote:

ounce wrote:

Thanks to you and Julie for setting me straight on the cotton shirt.  It was something about how a cotton shirt would block the wind, unlike a tech shirt which will let it blow right on through.

So I found the posting on the Javelina Jundred FB page about the cotton shirt.  I messed up about the 'where' of using a cotton shirt.  Therefore, I'm going to re-ask the question about wearing a cotton shirt within the context of an Arizona desert where the afternoon temp could be in the 80's, no shade, and the temp drops like a rock as the sun disappears due to very low humidity.  Thanks.

The original question is asked by:
Sabina Havkins
September 19 at 5:57pm · Seattle, WA
Any hot weather tips (clothing etc) for those of us from the Pacific Northwest


Katie Wallace Agreed on ice in the hat and sports bra. I will also add: cotton! Stay wet all day long with a cotton t-shirt and cotton bandanna. I know the running community is stuck on quick evaporative fabrics, which are great in the mountains, where "cotton kills," but in the desert, cotton is king.

I see what they are suggesting now.  I think the point is to wear cotton and keep it wet so that it helps cool you during the heat of the day.  That makes sense as long as you don't have problems which chaffing.

Don't get caught in wet cotton at night when the temps drop though!!

Mark B wrote:Nepal sounds like a great adventure!

But after a growing season of 105-hour weeks, just sleeping in sounds like heaven! Those of us who enjoy carrots appreciate your sacrifice.

ounce wrote:Nepal in the winter?  Aren't they above the equator in winter time?  Well, ultreya and take your camera.

Good luck working towards that goal.

I'm not going to pretend that we actually work 105 hour weeks but sometimes when we're baling hay at midnight it seems like it!  We stop for meals most days and I obviously find time to swim, bike and run.  Kevin took over a bit of my outside work when he moved home  3 1/2 years ago.  My hours decreased even more after my heart attack.  I have been busier in the office though.  It's mainly just that we can't plan anything and can't leave much during irrigation season.  It's a good life.

Yes, Nepal in winter.  I was surprised as well.  I assumed that I'd have to go by myself or find someone other than Marty to go with but once I started looking I realized that we could go in December.  The busiest months are late March-early May and October/November.  Summer is monsoon season.  But...the area we want to trek in is in a rain shadow and doesn't get a lot of snow in December.  It's cold though.  Apparently the trails aren't nearly as crowded and the teahouses are open. 

I decided before I invested to much time and money I should mention my plan to Dr. B.  I got his blessing.  He even gave me a few suggestions...he went trekking there a few years ago.

*
Wed - Swim 2450 yds
       - Core/strength

Thur - 9 w/7 @ 9:40 HR 140/158  Nice run.  Step back week...felt good.

Fri - Swim 1900 yds with some fast (sort of anyway) 50's

Sat - 15 @ 10:57 HR 135/158  I behaved myself a bit better today and kept this run at a more reasonable pace.  I finished slightly faster than I started but didn't get carried away.  After all it is supposed to be a step back week.  Pretty pleased with my HR.  It crept up a bit but not like it used to.

Ultreya...

Mon - Core/strength  Marty has started doing his core work so we do it together before breakfast.
       - Swim 2250 yds  Masters swim does a 1 hour swim in January and the goal is to see how many laps you can do in that hour.  It's a national competition and Central Oregon always does extremely well.  I've only done it twice.  In 2012 I swam 2700 yds.  My goal is to be able to swim 3000 yds (maintaining 1 minute 50 yard laps for the full hour).  I mentioned my goal to Coach Tim so he announced that we were going to work on endurance!  We swam a 600 at the end of our workout.  So far so good...I finished in 11:46.  But I've got a long way to go to maintain that pace for an hour.

Tues - 10 mi including 4 x 1.5 strength intervals.  Avg. 13:44 (@9:10)  HR 139/160 Extremely pleased with that pace and that HR.  I had to work at it...especially on the hills but never felt exhausted.

*
So...I'm headed to Vancouver to run a half on Sunday.  I'm really struggling to decide how I want to run it.  I haven't tapered much at all yet but last week was a bit of a step back week and I can cut back between now and then if I want to make it a "race".  I've used this event for my tune up race during marathon training a couple times.  It's a nice course and except for a pretty decent hill towards the end it's not terribly challenging.  I'm still struggling to decide what an appropriate pace for me is...for the marathon and for this half.  I'm running faster than I expected at this point in time but don't want to get over confident and blow up.

I've been looking at some of my runs during my 2013 marathon training.  As I mentioned earlier I'm not as fast as I was back then but I am pleased with where I'm at.  I'm doing better than I ever expected.  I have noticed that my HR is significantly slower than it was in 2013.  I need to try and pick out several runs that were reasonably similar conditions and see if that's a trend or just a fluke.  I'm curious...

Ultreya...

nkrichards wrote:Mon - Core/strength  Marty has started doing his core work so we do it together before breakfast.
       - Swim 2250 yds  Masters swim does a 1 hour swim in January and the goal is to see how many laps you can do in that hour.  It's a national competition and Central Oregon always does extremely well.  I've only done it twice.  In 2012 I swam 2700 yds.  My goal is to be able to swim 3000 yds (maintaining 1 minute 50 yard laps for the full hour).  I mentioned my goal to Coach Tim so he announced that we were going to work on endurance!  We swam a 600 at the end of our workout.  So far so good...I finished in 11:46.  But I've got a long way to go to maintain that pace for an hour.

Tues - 10 mi including 4 x 1.5 strength intervals.  Avg. 13:44 (@9:10)  HR 139/160 Extremely pleased with that pace and that HR.  I had to work at it...especially on the hills but never felt exhausted.

*
So...I'm headed to Vancouver to run a half on Sunday.  I'm really struggling to decide how I want to run it.  I haven't tapered much at all yet but last week was a bit of a step back week and I can cut back between now and then if I want to make it a "race".  I've used this event for my tune up race during marathon training a couple times.  It's a nice course and except for a pretty decent hill towards the end it's not terribly challenging.  I'm still struggling to decide what an appropriate pace for me is...for the marathon and for this half.  I'm running faster than I expected at this point in time but don't want to get over confident and blow up.

I've been looking at some of my runs during my 2013 marathon training.  As I mentioned earlier I'm not as fast as I was back then but I am pleased with where I'm at.  I'm doing better than I ever expected.  I have noticed that my HR is significantly slower than it was in 2013.  I need to try and pick out several runs that were reasonably similar conditions and see if that's a trend or just a fluke.  I'm curious...

Ultreya...

Given the amount of rain we're expecting this weekend -- and wind -- I'd suggest packing your swim goggles. 

Kidding aside, the weather is going to stink. But the upside will be you won't have to worry about getting overheated. But I would dial in the weather when you're making pace considerations. You may want to play this one conservatively and keep your powder dry for the main event at CIM.

So how high and hard to drive are these mountains to go to and from Vancouver?  I have no experience with mountains other than Signal Mountain near Chattanooga...using downshifting to brake, etc.

ounce wrote:So how high and hard to drive are these mountains to go to and from Vancouver?  I have no experience with mountains other than Signal Mountain near Chattanooga...using downshifting to brake, etc.

We drive over the mountain all the time.  It's not a bad drive when the weather is decent.  I'm concerned about visibility with the heavy rain and also trees blowing down.

Katie was not enthused at all about going and Marty was a bit concerned about the drive.  I decided to cancel my hotel and stay home.  We'll be back on that side of the mountain next weekend for my 40th class reunion and I think I've located a nice half in Portland that will work well.  It may be a bit wet but nothing like this weekend and the winds are forecast to be light.

They had a couple tornadoes touch down on the coast today...very unusual for Oregon!  We got bit of rain last night but not as much as expected.  The winds howled though!  The winds messed up the good rain gauge so it didn't register but the old fashioned one indicated a bit over a quarter inch.  That's actually a decent rain in our area.  I was not to bad today and the winds died down to 15-20 late this afternoon so I snuck out for a run.  The next phase of the storm is supposed to be worse and should hit tomorrow.

Ultreya...

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:So how high and hard to drive are these mountains to go to and from Vancouver?  I have no experience with mountains other than Signal Mountain near Chattanooga...using downshifting to brake, etc.

We drive over the mountain all the time.  It's not a bad drive when the weather is decent.  I'm concerned about visibility with the heavy rain and also trees blowing down.

Katie was not enthused at all about going and Marty was a bit concerned about the drive.  I decided to cancel my hotel and stay home.  We'll be back on that side of the mountain next weekend for my 40th class reunion and I think I've located a nice half in Portland that will work well.  It may be a bit wet but nothing like this weekend and the winds are forecast to be light.

They had a couple tornadoes touch down on the coast today...very unusual for Oregon!  We got bit of rain last night but not as much as expected.  The winds howled though!  The winds messed up the good rain gauge so it didn't register but the old fashioned one indicated a bit over a quarter inch.  That's actually a decent rain in our area.  I was not to bad today and the winds died down to 15-20 late this afternoon so I snuck out for a run.  The next phase of the storm is supposed to be worse and should hit tomorrow.

Ultreya...

You made the right choice. It's not worth the risk with the winds to make the trip.

So the storm wasn't nearly as strong as predicted but it was enough to knock out our internet service for a couple days.  What would we do without our technology!

Wed - Core/strength
       - Swim 2300 yds.

Thurs - Pilates

Fri - Core/strength
     - 8 mi w/6 @ 9:30  Snuck in a run between rain/wind events. 

Sat - Rest day

Sun - 14 mi @ 10:25

Mon - Core/strength
       - Swim 2200 yds

Ultreya...

Mark asked in an earlier post what life was like after irrigation was over for the year.  Well apparently it's the time I use to stress out about all kinds of running related things.  Especially on rainy mornings.

I got up early and got a few things done before Pilates but it was raining when I got home and Marty is in a meeting all day. 

So...I looked up the weight of my shoes.  My first marathon shoes (Brooks Infiniti weigh 9.2 oz.)  I still have the pair that I wore in Boston and they only have 50 miles or so on them but they are getting old.  My current shoes are Brooks Ravenna 7's.  They weigh 8.8 oz.  Debating which pair to wear for the marathon but I'm thinking the good luck may have gone out of the Infiniti during the run in Boston.

And I looked up the times necessary to actually get a bib for Boston. 
2014 -1:38
2015 -1:02
2016 -2:28
2017 -2:09
I'm not saying I want to run Boston...or that I want to try and qualify but since I have a birthday...or two...before Boston 2018 I would need to run 4:25 (-?:??)

And I looked at pacing teams for CIM.  They don't do me much good.  It won't help to run with the 4:25 pace team as that won't get me a bib and 4:10 would be absolute suicide!  But I did find something interesting.  In the last week or so they updated their pace teams and they are all now pacing at 2:00 under the BQ times.  Instead of 4:25 they are shooting for 4:23. (4:08 instead of 4:10)  But I'm still not sure that will help -2:00 may not be enough and running with the pace team and then finishing fast probably isn't an option either based on past performances.

My time at CIM in 2009 was 4:14:59.  Probably not in the cards this year.  But 4:20-4:22 might be doable if I have a good day.  Pacing strategy?  I have no idea at this point!  Conservative...I hear Dr. B calling.  Moderately aggressive...I hear Coach Tim encouraging.  Heck I can't even figure out what pace to run the half I registered for next Sunday!!!!!

Did I mention that my marathon is still nearly 7 weeks away?  This can't be taper madness already...or can it?  I'm stressing out more than I did for my first marathon.

*

Oh...I did manage to get out for my run after lunch.

10 mi including 3x2  Avg 18:22 (@9:11)   HR 140/158  Pace well under the MP -:10 (9:45) goal that I set at the beginning of training.

I don't know what to make of these paces and heart rates.  I do know I want to be careful.  Blowing up during the race would not be a good option...

I'm going to light the fire and make a cup of tea.

Ultreya...

That entire last post made me chuckle and smile - I think we are twins.  Go for the 4:20.  Start with the 4:23 pacer and then at 20 miles start to bring it down.  I think that CIM is the kind of course where this strategy can be employed i.e. no major climbs from mils 16-21 like Boston - lol.  You got this, and I think all your doctors  - whether real or no the internet - agree.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:That entire last post made me chuckle and smile - I think we are twins.  Go for the 4:20.  Start with the 4:23 pacer and then at 20 miles start to bring it down.  I think that CIM is the kind of course where this strategy can be employed i.e. no major climbs from mils 16-21 like Boston - lol.  You got this, and I think all your doctors  - whether real or no the internet - agree.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Michele...and the pacing advice. 

I'll admit that I had a bit of a chuckle when I read what I wrote yesterday.  I'm feeling much more settled today.  I just need to settle down and finish this training cycle with my original goals intact.  I need to remember not to get greedy and run faster than planned just because I can.  I need to use my spare time resting and recovering...and maybe doing a bit of core work...not stressing out and/or running more/faster than I should.

Core/strength work with Marty this morning.  Masters swim (1800 yds) late morning.  Feeling tired in a good way today.

Ultreya...

Wow! Taper madness already? That was a great post!

I'd agree with Michele on pacing. CIM is a great race to negative split. And those last few miles after you cross the American River Bridge are flat, flat flat. Never a better place to goose it.

Just get your flu shot ASAP. It's out there already, and it's nasty!

I think that it's good that you've already been to Boston, so that getting a BQ at CIM would be great, but if you don't make the cut, then you wouldn't have to pony up around $6,000 (I think that's what Nick had to pay) to run it.

Getting another BQ is still very great, even in your 'condition.'

Mark B wrote:Wow! Taper madness already? That was a great post!

I'd agree with Michele on pacing. CIM is a great race to negative split. And those last few miles after you cross the American River Bridge are flat, flat flat. Never a better place to goose it.

Just get your flu shot ASAP. It's out there already, and it's nasty!

Yes,  Mark...it did feel a bit like taper madness but I'm feeling a bit more settled.  I've still got some work to do before I taper!!  I hope you and Michele are correct.  I have been able to negative split more and more of my training runs but a faster finish in an actual marathon seems a bit daunting.  I do think that running conservatively is my best option even if I don't BQ.

And...I got my shot.  Hope it's effective!


ounce

I think that it's good that you've already been to Boston, so that getting a BQ at CIM would be great, but if you don't make the cut, then you wouldn't have to pony up around $6,000 (I think that's what Nick had to pay) to run it.

Getting another BQ is still very great, even in your 'condition.'

It's not about running Boston again Doug.  It's more about training well and running the best race I can.  It's about showing that I can still do the things I enjoy.  It's about proving to myself that I'm not afraid.

I will admit that if in the process of meeting those goals I'm able to run Boston again it would be great.  I have fantastic memories of the events leading up to the start and of the start itself.  I don't remember much about the last 6 miles and I didn't really get to experience the finish.  We'll see how things go.

As far as Nick's Boston bib.  He didn't pony up $6000.  His friends...including me...felt like he had earned the bib and were willing to donate to a charity to show our support.  I would never support actually buying a bib...maybe the distinction isn't black and white but he did cross the line in Hamilton with a BQ time.  It became gray after that.  I'm not a fan of charity bibs for a runner who just wants to run Boston but hasn't put in the work to earn it. 

*

Thursday - Pilates
               - 5 mi @ 10:04  w/3 @ 9:52  HR 134/158  I intended to run a bit faster in the middle of this run but I realized that I'd have to push harder than I wanted to in order accomplish that.  I've increased my core work significantly and I ran hard on Tuesday so I didn't want to push to hard.  I won't have a full taper before my half on Sunday but I don't want to start tired.

*

One of the running stores in Bend offered a free nutrition seminar last night.  Stephanie Howe was the speaker.  Katie and I both attended.  It was excellent!!  It was designed for participants in their training groups.  She talked about nutrition in general and then specifically about nutrition before/during/after a race.  It was time well spent.

Ultreya...

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:Wow! Taper madness already? That was a great post!

I'd agree with Michele on pacing. CIM is a great race to negative split. And those last few miles after you cross the American River Bridge are flat, flat flat. Never a better place to goose it.

Just get your flu shot ASAP. It's out there already, and it's nasty!

Yes,  Mark...it did feel a bit like taper madness but I'm feeling a bit more settled.  I've still got some work to do before I taper!!  I hope you and Michele are correct.  I have been able to negative split more and more of my training runs but a faster finish in an actual marathon seems a bit daunting.  I do think that running conservatively is my best option even if I don't BQ.

And...I got my shot.  Hope it's effective!


ounce

I think that it's good that you've already been to Boston, so that getting a BQ at CIM would be great, but if you don't make the cut, then you wouldn't have to pony up around $6,000 (I think that's what Nick had to pay) to run it.

Getting another BQ is still very great, even in your 'condition.'

As far as Nick's Boston bib.  He didn't pony up $6000.  His friends...including me...felt like he had earned the bib and were willing to donate to a charity to show our support.  I would never support actually buying a bib...maybe the distinction isn't black and white but he did cross the line in Hamilton with a BQ time.  It became gray after that.  I'm not a fan of charity bibs for a runner who just wants to run Boston but hasn't put in the work to earn it. 



Ultreya...

You're correct, he only setup the donation page and we all contributed.  But I think the amount to the charity in order to get the bib was around $6K.

Early taper madness or not, I think it's totally understandable that you're excited and a little nervous even this far out. You've bounced back so well from what happened to you at Boston, and the future's wide open for you! I'd be climbing the walls if I were you.  

I'd say just keep building until real taper begins and decide on race day what feels right for you. If the conditions are right, you might end up surprising yourself. You're certainly trained well enough to accomplish that.

Mark B wrote:Early taper madness or not, I think it's totally understandable that you're excited and a little nervous even this far out. You've bounced back so well from what happened to you at Boston, and the future's wide open for you! I'd be climbing the walls if I were you.  

I'd say just keep building until real taper begins and decide on race day what feels right for you. If the conditions are right, you might end up surprising yourself. You're certainly trained well enough to accomplish that.

Thanks Mark.  Some days I just not able to process where I'm at with my training.  Today was a perfect example.
 
Run Like Hell Half   2:04:58 @ 9:28 (unofficial)  In some ways it seems odd to be proud of that time but all things considered I am very pleased!  I'll update with details later today if possible.

Ultreya...

Congrats on a nice half there!

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Congrats on a nice half there!

+1

That's a VERY nice time, especially considering the course. Michele: It's run on much of the same route as the old Cascade Run Off. That means it goes up and down Portland's West Hills. The down is fun. The up? Not so much.

Great job, Nancy!

ounce wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Congrats on a nice half there!

+1

Mark B wrote:That's a VERY nice time, especially considering the course. Michele: It's run on much of the same route as the old Cascade Run Off. That means it goes up and down Portland's West Hills. The down is fun. The up? Not so much.

Great job, Nancy!

Thanks Michele, Doug & Mark!

I have to admit that I still find it tough to be proud of my time.  BUT after a day to think about the race I am extremely pleased with the race as a whole.

Other than cutting back on my Thursday run I didn't taper much if at all.  In fact I did a one hour cardio circuit on Saturday morning...it was a group activity and I didn't think it would be to hard...  Then we went to my 40th class reunion on Saturday night.  I woke up Sunday morning sore from the cardio and with a headache from not hydrating well...no alcohol just not enough liquids.  We found some breakfast and drove the 30 minutes to the race start and I was feeling better.

The first 3 miles was uphill.  I decided that I needed to start out very conservatively so I tucked in behind the 10:00 pacer.  It was congested and slower than I planned but I stayed calm and went with the crowd.  The next 3 miles were downhill.  I started to make up time but didn't get to carried away.  Mile 6 was along the waterfront and flat as a pancake.  At 7 1/2 miles, we ran though the "musical mile" and started running into 10K participants.  I mean literally running into them.  They were walking 5 abreast and stopping for photos in the middle of the course!  Mile 8-10 contained 16 90degree turns and took us across the train/MAX tracks at least 8 times.  This was the toughest part of the run.  We were in the industrial area and I wondered if I'd ever get to the turn around point.  I did and then I got to run back through all those turns and train tracks again!!  I tried to keep the pace moderate until the last 2 miles and then sped up a bit.  I was feeling good and making good time when they stopped us to let the traffic pass.  Two blocks later they stopped us again and we waited for 15 cars to cross the intersection.  Two stops in the last mile...WHAT!!  Then I turned the corner and the finish was in sight.  I finished feeling really well.

1  10:37  132 HR
2  10:29  142
3   9:59   145
4   9:17   142
5   9:22   139
6   9:13   136
7   9:15   137
8   9:11   141
9   9:16   145
10 9:14   144
11 9:14   146
12 9:05   148
13 9:09   150
.2 @ 7:54

So now that I've had time to think about the race I'm pretty pleased.  Other than not being entirely race ready on Sunday morning...and that was partially intentional...things went well.

• I started out conservatively and didn't panic
  
• I made up time slowly once I was able
  
• I handled the tough section without getting frustrated and wasting energy
  
• I got my gu down without losing noticeable time
  
• I hydrated well during the race
  
• My stomach held up well during and after the race
  
• I picked up my pace at an appropriate time near the end
  
• I finished feeling like I had made a good honest effort but still feeling good
  

This event was great practice for the marathon.  It was definitely a confidence builder.  I woke up this morning pretty sore but ready to get back to marathon training after a couple recovery days.  I still have some work to do and there are a lot of things that could still go wrong but it won't be for lack of effort!!

Ultreya...

Nice splits! You really could not have run that race any smarter.

Mark B wrote:Nice splits! You really could not have run that race any smarter.

Agreed!  I know that course - or I remember it from the time I ran the Cascade Run-Off, and what I remember was 4.5 miles uphill and 4.5 miles down! So handle it well - you paced it perfectly.

As for the walkers, that is a pet peeve of mine.  We used to have a race here where the half started 45 min after the marathon and it was often tough to negotiate your way around the back pf the packers.  Now I don't care or have a beef with anyone who wishes to walk a marathon or is even a slowish runner, but why does it always seem like they are walking 5-7 abreast?  I just remember several times and had to run around them into the "traffic" lane that was not closed off.  Needless to say, I was not the only one who felt that these logistics were off, and now the races start at the same time.  Walkers - if you truly register as one - do start 1 hr early.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:

Mark B wrote:Nice splits! You really could not have run that race any smarter.

Agreed!  I know that course - or I remember it from the time I ran the Cascade Run-Off, and what I remember was 4.5 miles uphill and 4.5 miles down! So handle it well - you paced it perfectly.

As for the walkers, that is a pet peeve of mine.  We used to have a race here where the half started 45 min after the marathon and it was often tough to negotiate your way around the back pf the packers.  Now I don't care or have a beef with anyone who wishes to walk a marathon or is even a slowish runner, but why does it always seem like they are walking 5-7 abreast?  I just remember several times and had to run around them into the "traffic" lane that was not closed off.  Needless to say, I was not the only one who felt that these logistics were off, and now the races start at the same time.  Walkers - if you truly register as one - do start 1 hr early.

Thanks Mark and Michele.  It was a good day.  Hope I have a good day on Dec. 4th!!  The course must be slightly different than the Cascade Run-Off as we turned back downhill early in the 4th mile.  I enjoyed that part of the course more than the twists and turns in the industrial area!  I don't mind walkers...we all have different goals...I just wish they would be a bit more considerate of the runners and allow room to pass.

*
Mon- Pretty sore on Monday morning so I skipped core/strength
      - Swim 2450 yds.  Wouldn't you know it...we worked on kicking

Tues- Pilates
       - 9.5 mi including 2x3 Avg interval pace 9:23 HR 135/159  Not as fast as my previous strength intervals but well within goal pace. 

Wed- Core/strength
      - Swim 2800 yds

Swimming is always a good recovery activity for me so even though the workouts were tough this week I didn't feel like they were to stressful.  I was sore again after my Tuesday run.  I'm still not feeling 100% today and it's a hectic day.  I may skip my scheduled run or do a shorter/easier run and allow a bit more time for my body to recover.  I don't want to be lazy but I also don't want to be so rigid in following my training plan that I do more harm than good.  We'll see how I feel after Pilates...

Ultreya...

Exactly what I mean about the walkers.  I'm all for them being out there - but remember that there are possibly faster runners/walkers behind you!