50 Ultra question

I had thought about Chicago Lakefront 50 but I already did the 50K and would like to get another state as long as we're traveling for another race (still working on my 50 states).

Alex Kubacki wrote:Julie I'm kind of in the same thinking as you. I want to do a 50M. I do plan to give myself 3 decent shots to BQ first starting in the spring. Then I look to do a 50M in the fall of 2013.



I don't have much for trails near me so I was thinking of maybe that Chicago Lakefront 50M.

The Chicago Lakefront 50M race is great for a relatively easy and flat race. It is 4 x 12.5 mile loops and

you can get people to run a loop or two with you. It is small and they have good aid stations and a couple of places for drop bags. With it being 4 loops I usually jsut have a drop bag at the start. Here is their website.



I have read to train for an ultra you want you long runs to get up to 50-60% of the race distance. For a 50M

race that is 25-30 miles.

So Jim you would run a marathon or 50K as a training run for a 50 miler? What does your 50 mile training look like?

Julie wrote:So Jim you would run a marathon or 50K as a training run for a 50 miler? What does your 50 mile training look like?

Sorry I am not Jim. Julie, earlier this year I ran a marathon in March, April and May in preparation for my 50 miler that I did in June. My 50 M was in a 12-hour timed event. My target marathon was in April (Boston) and just followed modified Hal's Intermediate II plan to increase the miles. I did the March marathon really as a long training run, and the May marathon as another training run. I did one more 20 miler two weeks out from the 50 M and did a two week taper. I don't have my log with me but my peak week in training was a little over 60 miles and I probably averaged around 40/week from Feburary through May. So you can do a 50 miler without having to do 70-80 miles/week.

Julie wrote:So Jim you would run a marathon or 50K as a training run for a 50 miler? What does your 50 mile training look like?

Julie, I have used a marathon as a training run 3 weeks before a 50K and the same for a 50M race. One year I ran 9 miles to a marathon and then ran the race in 4:15 as preparation for a 50M race 3 weeks later. When training for the longer races I typically run 4-5 days per week with easier paces. I also don't typically do back-to-back long runs, but believe in a couple of longer mid-week runs. Here is an example of a peak week I did once in training for a 50M race:



Monday- 10 miles easy

Tuesday- rest

Wednesday-15 miles easy

Thursday- rest

Friday- 10 miles w 2 at MP

Saturday- 25 miles easy



With only 4 days of running I had in 60 miles and did fairly well in the 50M race that year. I think getting in longer runs with fewer days running prepares you better than more shorter runs does.

I first thought Kenny had 50 questions about ultra. Kenny always skips UOM. Last time I showed my 9 years old Kenny's 356competitors waist band.

She said instantly: This is not right. It misses "Days".

Jim Lentz wrote:

Julie wrote:So Jim you would run a marathon or 50K as a training run for a 50 miler? What does your 50 mile training look like?

Julie, I have used a marathon as a training run 3 weeks before a 50K and the same for a 50M race. One year I ran 9 miles to a marathon and then ran the race in 4:15 as preparation for a 50M race 3 weeks later. When training for the longer races I typically run 4-5 days per week with easier paces. I also don't typically do back-to-back long runs, but believe in a couple of longer mid-week runs. Here is an example of a peak week I did once in training for a 50M race:



Monday- 10 miles easy

Tuesday- rest

Wednesday-15 miles easy

Thursday- rest

Friday- 10 miles w 2 at MP

Saturday- 25 miles easy



With only 4 days of running I had in 60 miles and did fairly well in the 50M race that year. I think getting in longer runs with fewer days running prepares you better than more shorter runs does.

That looks really manageable. I know it would be a time commitment but it doesn't look like that much more than I am doing now, running about 55 miles across 5-6 days, plenty of weeks have 2 10-12 milers in addition to a 17-20 on the wkend. Perhaps this goal isn't so out of reach. If I picked a fall marathon I could always run a marathon within the general area before and run miles before.

I don't want to get overly confident as I do know it's a very big mental and physical feat but it does look like something with plenty of preparation I could attempt.

Awesome, now you have me excited for something that might not happen for 2-3 years!

Best advice I ever received about an ultra (and I have done one and only one with lots of elevation gain and loss) was the so-called ultra-marathoner's mantra: If you can't see the top, walk it."

Like Schuey said early on you can actually save energy (I would disagree on saving time on the particular hill - but yes, time saved over the ultimate distance) by power-walking the big hills. Similar to the patience you need to show in a marathon (e.g., "every minute saved the first half equals more than a minute lost the second half" type mentality). So it only makes sense to assume this applies even more to a longer race such as an ultra.

In the little bit of specific ultra-training I have done I did incorporate walking breaks in to my Sunday long run when I was trying to spend more than 3 hours on my feet otherwise I guessed it would take way too long to recover. I don't put too much emphasis on a single workout though I must say - more about each week.

Ben Z wrote:Best advice I ever received about an ultra (and I have done one and only one with lots of elevation gain and loss) was the so-called ultra-marathoner's mantra: If you can't see the top, walk it."

Like Schuey said early on you can actually save energy (I would disagree on saving time on the particular hill - but yes, time saved over the ultimate distance) by power-walking the big hills. Similar to the patience you need to show in a marathon (e.g., "every minute saved the first half equals more than a minute lost the second half" type mentality). So it only makes sense to assume this applies even more to a longer race such as an ultra.

In the little bit of specific ultra-training I have done I did incorporate walking breaks in to my Sunday long run when I was trying to spend more than 3 hours on my feet otherwise I guessed it would take way too long to recover. I don't put too much emphasis on a single workout though I must say - more about each week.

Thanks and agree!