Re: Road to Nowhere

Michele "1L" Keane Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:34 pm

You are doing great! Just look at that average HR and the paces look pretty good that correlate. Nice work.

Just want you to know that I would give almost anything for one more run in 36F weather. Let's just check back to see if I say that next year at this time Wink

Schuey Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:37 pm

Mark B wrote:
Michele "1L" Keane wrote:It's decided, I need to move to Washington state. We broke records with consecutive days over 80F in March!!

Nice run. Funny though, if my average HR was 128 for a run, I'd be walking - slowly.

Head West, young woman! I think we broke 80 degrees less than a dozen times last year. Now, that's unusual, but apparently not that unusual.

And I was wrong when I told Kathy the snow was gone. There are still a few small patches here and there. Yipes!

Current conditions: 36 degrees and foggy.

--

The overall average heart rate is a little deceiving, BTW. It includes the entire workout, including the 10 minutes I spend walking to warm up and cool down. When I was actually running, my heart rate started in the mid 130s and climbed up to about 140 before I slowed, bringing the heart rate down to about 137 or so.

While it's not representative of my actual running time, that overall average heart rate is useful for me to compare workouts. If I start to see that number climb, I can see that I'm trying to sneak up the intensity level and decide whether it's something I want to continue.

For example, I can look back over my entire Garmin-enhanced running career and see the overall intensity, even over the entire year.

2007: 149 bpm (pre-Maffetone, lots of injuries)
2008: 146 bpm (still pre-Maffetone, still injured)
2009: 139 bpm (Started Maffetone after three months with average HRs in the mid 140s led to injury. After that, performance improved dramatically, injuries fell.)
2010: 139 bpm (Pushed HR averages to mid 140s early in year - and burned out.)
2011: 139 bpm (Partial year, since I went watch less for a while).
2012: 126 bpm (So far, as I go back to low HR training for real this time. The HR number will rise a bit as the time of runs increases, because the walking time will account for a smaller percentage of the total run.)

I might actually chart this at some point, because the month-to-month changes in some of these years correlates with when I ended up with overuse injury or burnout. Thanks for mentioning the average HR, Michele. It's really got me thinking. And it's convincing me that what I'm doing is the right thing for me.

First Michele just remember that you are moving to Cleveland and let's see how you feel about that after being back in the Midwest for a a couple winters/springs! HaHa

Mark the data doesn't lie! I don't care what has happened over you races the last few years. That data is huge and shows how hard you have work and more importantly how much you have improved your aerobic condition and improved the fitness of your body. That my friend is way more important and successful then what any clock could every say at an end of race that is ran only on 1 given day out of all the running you have done! JOB WELL DONE!!!

Mark B Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:27 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:You are doing great! Just look at that average HR and the paces look pretty good that correlate. Nice work.

Thanks, Michele! I think the data is pretty revealing about what sort of training works best for me.

Just want you to know that I would give almost anything for one more run in 36F weather. Let's just check back to see if I say that next year at this time

These cool weather runs are pretty nice, I have to admit. But you know what? They're horrible preparation for a spring marathon. For several years, I did training in cool/cold and wet weather all winter long, only to wither on an unexpectedly warm May race morning - with "warm" being only 60 degrees!

You can fake a lot of things, but you can't fake heat acclimation. Sweaty

Schuey wrote:First Michele just remember that you are moving to Cleveland and let's see how you feel about that after being back in the Midwest for a a couple winters/springs! HaHa

Mark the data doesn't lie! I don't care what has happened over you races the last few years. That data is huge and shows how hard you have work and more importantly how much you have improved your aerobic condition and improved the fitness of your body. That my friend is way more important and successful then what any clock could every say at an end of race that is ran only on 1 given day out of all the running you have done! JOB WELL DONE!!!

Hey, Schuey! Thanks. Like I said above, matching the data with past triumphs and disasters helps me understand better what works best for me: Training that focuses more on a slow, steady improvement in my body's aerobic system with relatively limited bursts of intensity.

Like you said, the ultimate goal is to be able to be fit and healthy, no matter what the time on the clock says. So, while some people may be about to go out and have great success banging out a series of fast 800s every other day, that just doesn't work with my physiology or temperament.

I'm totally cool with that, BTW, though I have to admit that the evidence might suggest that I have been a reluctant traveler on the path to enlightenment. Very Happy

Mark B Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:14 pm

MAF Test: 1 mile warm up, 5 miles @ MAF heart rate (or as close as I could get it)

Weather: Overcast, cool, a little breezy. 43 degrees. Gear: FR2s, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket. Fuel: Coffee and oatmeal before, took water after second MAF mile.

It's been a bit more than a month since my last MAF test, so it was time for a trip back to the track. I figured that I'd show some improvement over last time, though I didn't know if my blood donation last week would pose a problem.

Road to Nowhere - Page 12 Maf_te12

Well, if it did, it wasn't obvious. I was faster throughout, cutting 25 seconds off my first mile, and more importantly, 37 seconds off my second mile, 44 seconds off my third mile, 40 seconds off my fourth mile and 47 seconds off my fifth mile. Not bad. Not bad at all. Smile

I ran on the local track, with a flock of seagulls to keep me company. The weather was cool but not cold, a little breezy but not enough to really mess up my HR. My HR did jump around a little more than it does on these tests, and the average HR for a couple of miles were a little higher than I'd like. But the trend is solid.

Thanks to my barefoot work, I started to notice my touchdown point this morning. My body is starting to want to move into more of a forefoot strike now, even when shod, and it is starting to feel more efficient. And amazingly, I started to feel some springiness between the ball of my foot and ankle that I have never felt before. I could feel a compression and release of energy. It was unexpected, and really cool.

Average HR for entire run: 133

KathyK Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:32 am

Nice looking results on that MAF test, Mark! Clearly there is progress despite the blood donation!

Mark B Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:21 pm

KathyK wrote:Nice looking results on that MAF test, Mark! Clearly there is progress despite the blood donation!

It sure seems so, Kathy! I guess the long-term development of mitochondria trumps the short-term loss of red blood cells. cheers

It'll be interesting to do another test in about a month and see what happens when I have even more mitochondria and a full tank of hemoglobin.

---

You may have noticed that I've stopped listing MAF times from back in 2009. I don't want to start comparing then and now too much. I'm taking a different approach this time, with different goals, and the last thing I need right now is to get competitive with myself from nearly three years ago. Because you know I would.

---

A weird day today. Alec came down with a bug and is home from school. So no running for me, unless I take to the treadmill. Which I might consider, actually.

Mark B Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:38 pm

Low HR Run: 30 minutes (2.145 miles) on the treadmill

Temp: 68. Gear: FR2s, shorts, shirt.

I was feeling restless (being cooped up with a sick kid who is going through books like people with colds go through Kleenex will do that to you) so I decided to do a short run on the treadmill, recovery style.

Once I got started, I kept the treadmill at a 12/mm pace and left it there, curious how far my HR would rise. I started counting backwards in my head to keep myself occupied and was pleasantly surprised to see my HR floating along in the 132-135 range for nearly all the run. (It probably helped that my HR was 52 when I started. It may have also helped my HR that the UPS guy interrupted my run halfway in, though my legs certainly didn't like the break.)

I toyed with the idea of speeding up the treadmill, but decided against it. Technically, the Maffetone training range is supposed to be in the 10 bpm *below* your MAF heart rate (138). Besides, working the low end seems to be paying off so far. One of the reasons I decided to not race this year was to see what happened when this sort of training wasn't interrupted by races or colored by arbitrary time and/or distance goals.

Average HR for entire run: 116

ounce Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Mark B wrote: (It probably helped that my HR was 52 when I started. It may have also helped my HR that the UPS guy interrupted my run halfway in, though my legs certainly didn't like the break.)

I'd say the latter more so than the former. But it brings up a point that I hadn't considered: whether starting heart rate matters.

I would think starting heart rate +/- 10-20 beats wouldn't matter (maybe as high as +30), when you're running up to cruising HR. I know as I walk down to street to my starting point, my HR may be around 80-90 in anticipation of me running, but getting dressed would put me around 58-65 bpm. I haven't noticed any indication of a problem getting to cruising range.

Mark B Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:54 pm

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote: (It probably helped that my HR was 52 when I started. It may have also helped my HR that the UPS guy interrupted my run halfway in, though my legs certainly didn't like the break.)

I'd say the latter more so than the former. But it brings up a point that I hadn't considered: whether starting heart rate matters.

I would think starting heart rate +/- 10-20 beats wouldn't matter (maybe as high as +30), when you're running up to cruising HR. I know as I walk down to street to my starting point, my HR may be around 80-90 in anticipation of me running, but getting dressed would put me around 58-65 bpm. I haven't noticed any indication of a problem getting to cruising range.

I think you're right. I look at the starting HR more as a general sense of overall well-being. Sometimes, a lower starting HR means I have an easier time maintaining low HR discipline (or can run faster at the same low HR), but I don't think I can say it always works that way. Either way, it's nice to see the HR back that low. It hasn't been there for a few months.

Mark B Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Low HR Run: 30 minutes (2.145 miles) on the treadmill

Temp: 68 Gear: FR2s, shorts, T.

Alec is still home from school -- turns out he has scarlet fever (!) and impetigo -- so I'm home from work as the antibiotics do their job on him. Still, I was going a little stir-crazy, so I broke away from Dad duty to do a quick 30-minute run on the treadmill before lunch.

It was nearly a carbon copy of Monday's run, except without the UPS guy interruption. The HR level stayed about the same (some spiking because of a dry strap at first), though it climbed later in the run when I was fooling around with cadence and started toe running. I brought it back to a forefoot-to-midfoot strike and the HR dropped back down. My HR was at about 134 just before I transitioned to my walking cool-down.

Average HR for entire run: 121

KathyK Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:11 am

I saw on FB that Alec has scarlet fever...I remember when I was a kid, that was something to be really worried about. I'm so glad that's not the case any more.

Around here, there was an outbreak of whooping cough. One rural school had something like 50 cases...unreal.

Oh yeah, this is about running. Nice job on the treadmill run....it's good to have the mill handy while you are home with Alec.

Mark B Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:39 am

KathyK wrote:I saw on FB that Alec has scarlet fever...I remember when I was a kid, that was something to be really worried about. I'm so glad that's not the case any more.

Around here, there was an outbreak of whooping cough. One rural school had something like 50 cases...unreal.

Oh yeah, this is about running. Nice job on the treadmill run....it's good to have the mill handy while you are home with Alec.

Hi, Kathy! Yes, it's pretty amazing, isn't it? I did a little research on the history of scarlet fever yesterday and ... wow. At one time, it was a major kid killer. Y.i.p.e.s.

Whooping cough seems to be coming back around here, too. Crazy, but this is what happens when people don't vaccinate their kids. (The pertussis, not the scarlet fever, btw.)

Hopefully, Alec will be well enough for school today. Crossing fingers!

(Thanks on the run. I'm sort of nibbling away at it right now, but it seems to be helping.)

UPDATE: Alec's fever is down below 100, but he's coughing up a lung and still looks/feels run down. No school again, poor kid.

Mark B Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:41 am

SECOND UPDATE: Annd, when I get the mail this afternoon, we discover that the poor kid wasn't accepted to the local arts-oriented magnet school he's been hoping and dreaming to attend for the past year. Complicating the situation (as if it wasn't disappointing enough) was that a friend who lives across the street got in, which now has him worried that he'll be the only one of his classmates who didn't make the cut.

Damn. What a rotten week he's had.

KathyK Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:23 pm

Damn. Somehow nothing hurts as much as seeing your child hurting. Hugs sent Alec's way.

There's always the 'everything happens for a reason' talk you can have with them, but when the reason isn't evident, it's hard to actually believe that.

phooey.

Michele "1L" Keane Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:48 pm

So sorry for Alec - but it does and will work out.

Mark B Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:52 pm

KathyK wrote:Damn. Somehow nothing hurts as much as seeing your child hurting. Hugs sent Alec's way.

There's always the 'everything happens for a reason' talk you can have with them, but when the reason isn't evident, it's hard to actually believe that.

phooey.

Thanks, Kathy. It's sad when the "happens for a reason" is primarily to drive home the point that disappointment and heartache are a normal part of the human experience, and that all you can do is hope it makes you stronger for the next time it happens. Life hurts; how you deal with it defines who you are.

We found out today that very few kids from Alec's school who applied got in (only five out of a class of 150), so at least he's not the only one passed over (that was a big fear), but it's small comfort.

On a more encouraging note, we found out that he's been placed in advanced classes (English, social studies and math) for the middle school he'll be attending, which is nice, because it's based entirely on recommendations from the staff at his current school based on who he is and how he's performed over time. The arts school selection process included a big one-time interview/workshop, so if you have a bad day or aren't great at selling yourself, it'd probably be easy to be written off.

At any rate, Alec can see that we're upset what happened, too, and he's trying to put on a brave face to make us feel better. Which, of course, means we have to keep driving home the point that while we're disappointed for him, we're not disappointed IN him.

Michele "1L" Keane Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:00 pm

Mark B wrote: Which, of course, means we have to keep driving home the point that while we're disappointed for him, we're not disappointed IN him.

The most important part, of course!! My daughter was not accepted in 7th grade to the school where she currently is Senior. She was devastated, but come back two years later and she was accepted by all three of the high schools she applied to, and in the end the first college she applied to as well. Believe me, it does all work out!

KathyK Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:56 pm

Ya know...thinking about Alec's disappointment makes me think about my son and what he's doing with his life right now. Since he was 2, he wanted to be a military pilot. He's now in flight school at Ft. Rucker. Oddly enough, I don't worry about him crashing his helicopter, but rather having something else happen so he couldn't graduate. I worry about how I could support him if his dream crashes. But it is such a big dream that he's had for most of his life. Being a parent is tricky business.

Mark B Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:08 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:
Mark B wrote: Which, of course, means we have to keep driving home the point that while we're disappointed for him, we're not disappointed IN him.

The most important part, of course!! My daughter was not accepted in 7th grade to the school where she currently is Senior. She was devastated, but come back two years later and she was accepted by all three of the high schools she applied to, and in the end the first college she applied to as well. Believe me, it does all work out!

Thanks, Michele. We have a couple of girls across the street who tried and failed to get into that arts school for several years before they finally got in. One of them graduated near the top of her class, and the other is still there and doing fabulously well. So this doesn't have to be the end of the story. We will see what happens.

KathyK wrote:Ya know...thinking about Alec's disappointment makes me think about my son and what he's doing with his life right now. Since he was 2, he wanted to be a military pilot. He's now in flight school at Ft. Rucker. Oddly enough, I don't worry about him crashing his helicopter, but rather having something else happen so he couldn't graduate. I worry about how I could support him if his dream crashes. But it is such a big dream that he's had for most of his life. Being a parent is tricky business.

You're not kidding, Kathy. It stinks when things don't go well for you... but for your kid? That's torture.

The nice thing is, the drama of the moment is starting to fade. Alec is pleased to know he was placed in advanced/challenge/honors classes (without having to apply/test for it), and some of his other interests are starting to rise back to the surface again. Last night, we were talking about what amazing artists naturalists can be, and we got into a conversation about Charles Darwin, the mechanics of natural selection and how it all plays out.

After a while, he said, "You know, I might want to be a biologist."

Very Happy

Mark B Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:07 pm

Low HR Run: 90 minutes (7.46 miles)

Weather: Partly cloudy with a shower, cool and breezy. 40 degrees, winds to 9 mph. Gear: FR2s, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat, gloves (shed) Fuel: Instant oatmeal (maple/brown sugar) with chia seed (yum!), coffee. Carried water.

No training partner this morning, but after last week's stress-fest, I desperately needed to get outside and spend some quality time out on the roads. I got a little scare when I started when my right peroneal tendons barked at me, probably because my body is transitioning in its foot strike. I paused, stretched a little and started back again at an easier pace, and it relaxed. Whew.

I took the rest of the run easy, slowing or even walking when needed to keep my average HR at or below 138. It was a cool, breezy and slightly wet morning, but I had just enough gear on to make it work.

(Note: Curly and Shemp the alpacas were out, but Larry and Moe the llamas were incommunicado.)

I got into a nice rhythm as the run progressed, and I almost started to get the sense of "I could run like this all day" - which is always a good sign. And the goal. Very Happy

Average HR for entire run: 132

Mike MacLellan Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:17 pm

Nice run, Mark! Glad to see you're comfortably breaking an hour and, from the looks of things, doing it right.

I'm curious about the chia + oatmeal combination... I usually do flax seeds (ground) to thicken it up, but have been thinking about chia. Except that I heard they can make things... "chunky." Less of a problem in oatmeal than if it was just water?

Mark B Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:23 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:Nice run, Mark! Glad to see you're comfortably breaking an hour and, from the looks of things, doing it right.

I'm curious about the chia + oatmeal combination... I usually do flax seeds (ground) to thicken it up, but have been thinking about chia. Except that I heard they can make things... "chunky." Less of a problem in oatmeal than if it was just water?

Depends what sort of "things" you're talking about, Mike. Goodness knows, I'm chunky enough!

I think chia seeds are a lot of fun in water. I take about 10 ounces of water, briskly stir in a tablespoon of chia seeds and let it stand (briskly stirring every minute or so) for five minutes. Then I add a scoop of Gatorade powder and stir again .. and presto! My famous Chiarade®! It's kind of like a Gatorade smoothie.

In oatmeal, the seeds don't swell up as much and get that gelatinous quality. They add a nice, crunchy, nutty taste. Which is a big improvement on flavored instant oatmeal.

John Kilpatrick Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Damn - I'm just catching up and the scarlet fever thing looked pretty scary. And the school kick in the pants to boots. Sorry for the little guy, but tomorrow is another day (or so I keep telling myself). On a completely different level of course, but my kindergartner came home disappointed after making an 80 on a reading test (he has always made 100s before) and it took a lot of convincing to let him know that was perfectly OK and he was doing great. I try to remind him from time to time that there is nothing that he can do to make me love him any more or any less - I just love him and want the best for him. I guess that is all we can do as parents, but I know it is a bummer to see a little person upset about something that is important to them.

Good job on the running too - looks like the low HR thing is going really well for you!

Mark B Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:32 am

John Kilpatrick wrote:Damn - I'm just catching up and the scarlet fever thing looked pretty scary. And the school kick in the pants to boots. Sorry for the little guy, but tomorrow is another day (or so I keep telling myself). On a completely different level of course, but my kindergartner came home disappointed after making an 80 on a reading test (he has always made 100s before) and it took a lot of convincing to let him know that was perfectly OK and he was doing great. I try to remind him from time to time that there is nothing that he can do to make me love him any more or any less - I just love him and want the best for him. I guess that is all we can do as parents, but I know it is a bummer to see a little person upset about something that is important to them.

Good job on the running too - looks like the low HR thing is going really well for you!

Thanks, John. He's still not fully over it yet (he saw the girl across the street who got into the magnet school this afternoon and got depressed), but he'll get through it. I wish he didn't have to get through it, but that's the way of things sometimes.

Thanks also on the training. I set up this year to be a slow building process. The building is happening, though part of me is having a teensy bit of difficulty with how little I'm running right now relative to what I'd normally be doing at this time of the year. Must. Remain. Patient!

Mark B Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:54 am

Ever get a chance to channel your paleolithic ancestors? I did this afternoon.

We'd taken advantage of nice weather (a balmy 62!) and went to the Oregon Zoo. We had a good afternoon cruising around looking at the animals -- and stumbled into one of those moments you'll never forget.

We were next to the mountain lion habitat, watching a mountain lion up a tree howling softly at people watching it from below. It was fascinating and engrossing - I'd never heard that sound before - but when I let my eyes drop toward ground level, my peripheral vision picked up something that wasn't quite right.

I turned and looked closer. As my eyes focused, I realized I was in the crosshairs of ....

Road to Nowhere - Page 12 Predat10

This.

Ever have one of those "Oh, crap!" moments when your primal instinct tells you that you're dead meat? It was like that.

I wasn't the only one to jump out of my skin. Alita and Alec did the same thing when I pointed it out to them.

Can't see it? Here's a closer look with enhanced color and contrast:
Road to Nowhere - Page 12 Predat11

It didn't twitch a whisker the whole time. It knew we'd been distracted and were totally exposed.

Let's just say, I'm very glad the fence was there. Imagine if it hadn't been and we were all out in the woods somewhere.

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