NYT Article on young runners

This article was in Sunday's paper. I found the whole story....weird. Having a 12 year old run a marathon (!!) and trail races at altitude? Seems insane to me. Here's another strange (to me) element of this. I looked up times on Athlinks....is the girl even a phenom? The article creates that impression but I think that's wrong. Obviously the two girls are very into running and that's great but if you read the article, you would get the sense that these are "the next big thing" kind of runners. There's no evidence of that from their race results. These kids race every weekend and yet the older one's 5K PR is 19:57 which is of course a fine time for a 12 year old but hardly in the category of Jordan Hasay type wunderkinds. There are 12 year old girls who run 16:00-17:00 5Ks. The older one ran a 1:28 half which is again super impressive for a 12 year old but still not in the category of someone who is going to be shattering HS records or even relevant nationally as a running phenom. In some ways, the crazy story would make more sense to me if the girls were putting up world class AG times and heading towards being future Olympians but that doesn't even seem to be close to the case. Instead, it strikes me as a Dad-driven quest but I'm not sure towards any particular end. Some of the quotes and the back and forth between them seem pretty crazy and the girl breaking down in tears when someone passes her just does not seem healthy to me. Multiple races every weekend, $5,000 tri bikes and plane trips to run in trail races....I found the whole story a bit disturbing. But a great read and I'll be interested to see what all of you think

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/sports/too-fast-too-soon-young-endurance-runners-draw-cheers-and-concerns.html

I didn't see one bit of a problem with anything - them running far, long, racing, taking it seriously, crying when passed, whatever - until the last page. Really? Telling a 12yo she didn't give it her all because of her time? Just reminds me of young kids playing club sports and having their parents make it their lives. But I do know some who came out of it relatively unscathed (perhaps a little too competitive in everyday situations, but oh well) and don't hate their fathers for it. So...

And on a more personal note:
The girls look like a girl I dated... if she had been 12. But like, really. It's frightening.

I enjoyed this and don't really think the parents are over the top. I've raised hockey players - and if you want to see over the top......

Jowever, this is really relevant for me. I have a 12 year old girl who shows some talent. She ran a 1:53 HM this past summer on far less training and racing than these two. I think a 1:30 is certainly within her reach, but the desire and work ethic isn't there yet. May never be. She's run some pretty fast 800s, miles and 2 miles.

I try to read a lot about youth running, want to encourage her, but not push her over the edge as a pushy dad. Articles are all over the place on yes, no, maybe. Just goes to show you how little info there is. So much is just based on opinion. Whether these two will turn into elite HS or collegiate athletes is anyone's guess.

mountandog wrote:I enjoyed this and don't really think the parents are over the top. I've raised hockey players - and if you want to see over the top......

Jowever, this is really relevant for me. I have a 12 year old girl who shows some talent. She ran a 1:53 HM this past summer on far less training and racing than these two. I think a 1:30 is certainly within her reach, but the desire and work ethic isn't there yet. May never be. She's run some pretty fast 800s, miles and 2 miles.

I try to read a lot about youth running, want to encourage her, but not push her over the edge as a pushy dad. Articles are all over the place on yes, no, maybe. Just goes to show you how little info there is. So much is just based on opinion. Whether these two will turn into elite HS or collegiate athletes is anyone's guess.

"Pushy" is definitely the word that jumps to mind with how that Dad came off in the article. Would you have this conversation with your 12 year old? Its the one Mike referred to...

“You quit on us today,” he said.

“No, I didn’t,” she responded.

“Yes, you did. A lot of people run with a stubbed toe, even a broken toe. They put it aside and do their best. Did you do your best?”

“Yes.”

“Your time shows you certainly didn’t.”

Chris M wrote:

mountandog wrote:I enjoyed this and don't really think the parents are over the top. I've raised hockey players - and if you want to see over the top......

Jowever, this is really relevant for me. I have a 12 year old girl who shows some talent. She ran a 1:53 HM this past summer on far less training and racing than these two. I think a 1:30 is certainly within her reach, but the desire and work ethic isn't there yet. May never be. She's run some pretty fast 800s, miles and 2 miles.

I try to read a lot about youth running, want to encourage her, but not push her over the edge as a pushy dad. Articles are all over the place on yes, no, maybe. Just goes to show you how little info there is. So much is just based on opinion. Whether these two will turn into elite HS or collegiate athletes is anyone's guess.

"Pushy" is definitely the word that jumps to mind with how that Dad came off in the article. Would you have this conversation with your 12 year old? Its the one Mike referred to...

“You quit on us today,” he said.

“No, I didn’t,” she responded.

“Yes, you did. A lot of people run with a stubbed toe, even a broken toe. They put it aside and do their best. Did you do your best?”

“Yes.”

“Your time shows you certainly didn’t.”

This is debatable. Pushy or not? Having 6 kids and having coached for over 20 years gives me some perspective. You can tell when your kids/teams don't give it "their all" whether it be in school, on a project or athletically. I've had to have similar conversations with my kids at various points. It's important that they understand they didn't give it their all, especially in situations that warrant it (this might not be one). I'm not suggesting they CAN give their all each and every time, but I think some self-awareness is required. They need to understand that adversity is part of success, whether it's a stubbed toe, a sleepless night, or sometimes having to work 80 hours. A lot of kids do back off when it gets tough. It's interesting in the article that the dad says one has talent and the other one work ethic. I have found it rare that kids possess both - they tend to be Olympians - lol. I've had more of those conversations with the talented ones rather than the work ethic ones.

I think the article somehow indicates that she acknowledged that she didn't give it her all. Although not in "quotes".

Anyway - its tough to guage the context from just these few words. I think the entire parent/daughter relationship has to be understood. Not sayin there aren't pushy parents. There are a bunch. Just hard for me to assess this particular case from afar.

Chris M wrote:

mountandog wrote:I enjoyed this and don't really think the parents are over the top. I've raised hockey players - and if you want to see over the top......

Jowever, this is really relevant for me. I have a 12 year old girl who shows some talent. She ran a 1:53 HM this past summer on far less training and racing than these two. I think a 1:30 is certainly within her reach, but the desire and work ethic isn't there yet. May never be. She's run some pretty fast 800s, miles and 2 miles.

I try to read a lot about youth running, want to encourage her, but not push her over the edge as a pushy dad. Articles are all over the place on yes, no, maybe. Just goes to show you how little info there is. So much is just based on opinion. Whether these two will turn into elite HS or collegiate athletes is anyone's guess.

"Pushy" is definitely the word that jumps to mind with how that Dad came off in the article. Would you have this conversation with your 12 year old? Its the one Mike referred to...

“You quit on us today,” he said.

“No, I didn’t,” she responded.

“Yes, you did. A lot of people run with a stubbed toe, even a broken toe. They put it aside and do their best. Did you do your best?”

“Yes.”

“Your time shows you certainly didn’t.”

How about the coach from top Dallas area U11 girls soccer team yelling:

"Name, be strong, you are not strong enough."

"Name, that's exactly what I told you not to do."

Jerry - sounds like my girlfriend's father when she was a kid playing soccer.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Jerry - sounds like my girlfriend's father when she was a kid playing soccer.

I must add, I don't know their competitive level outside Dallas, but they are really good, play physical and CLEAN.

Maybe just the coach's style. On the other hand, coaches don't criticize their players in public, right?

What do I know?

I'm torn regarding the article. I, for one, am not really in favor of kids running long distances- 5ks even 10ks - fine, but longer than that is where I'm very skeptical. I coached a middle school XC team for a while and I was amazed by one girl who seemed to have a lot of talent - but she did have a Dad whose approach I questioned especially after he told me that she had already suffered a pelvic stress fracture as a result of the mileage she was running. I know that is extreme, but I am still in the camp that we need to let our kids be kids. We as a society may push our kids just a bit too hard with regards to sports, school, etc. Again, this is just my opinion, and I wasn't sure which way the article was really leaning or asking me to lean. Torn, most definitely.

I am with you Michele. Let them be kids. How many 9 yo running phenoms do we know that went to the Olympics? Can you match up the record holders at age 12 and the record holders at age 21? Don't think so. The young phenoms burn out and/or get injured.

If those girls were out on their own running 10 miles together or with friends (Kenyan friends, maybe!) it wouldn't bother me. Physically they can run that far and even do it fast. But putting them on the starting line with grown men? Little girls trying to stay ahead in a mass start? Their dad yelling at them? Maybe in the article maybe from a local running forum (these kids run in the Houston area), I heard dad has them do tris, too. I shudder to think of these tiny girls trying to swim in open water with grown men.