Re: Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon

Nick Morris Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:52 am

08.08.13 -

After 5 days of running in a row, including 2 at altitude, I am taking the day off. It is my last day of meetings in Denver. Then it is off to the airport this afternoon. I have had a really good time while I was here and will hopefully get to come back soon. (Even if the runners are snobs...HAHAHAHA!!!!)

Nick Morris Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:48 am

08.09.13 -

Scheduled off day...Back in Madison and back on schedule again. Today is a scheduled off day before a 30 mile weekend that includes my first 20 miler of the training cycle. Sounds fun...

Nick Morris Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:09 am

Here is the comparison chart of my heart rate while running in Madison vs. Denver. It really shows that there is not much difference between the lower elevation and higher elevation. Both averaged 140 beats/min.

Madison - 1,200 ft./7:42 pace

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso10

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso10

Denver - 5,300 ft./7:36 pace

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Denver10

The one thing that you may notice is that my heart rate is extremely high at the beginning of the run. This is always the occurrence/trend when you look at all m y heart rate tracking. I am not exactly sure why this is. Do I get too amped before a run? That may be the answer, as my heart rate is even higher at the start of races. Does anyone else have this happen to them?

Michele "1L" Keane Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:51 pm

To answer your question - yes, all the time. These graphs show that you are in excellent shape and because of that you were not affected by the altitude. I hear that this is the case and why you run a race immediately after getting there.

Michael Enright Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:55 pm

I looked at the HR charts before reading your post, and wondered if I was going to read that you started with a sprint for some reason. Mine don't look anything like that at the start. My HR gradually goes up over the course of the first mile or so, and then levels off, creeping up with the drift as the run gets longer, and oscillating a bit if I'm no hills. I don't get an early spike like that at all.

Nick Morris Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:18 pm

Michael Enright wrote:I looked at the HR charts before reading your post, and wondered if I was going to read that you started with a sprint for some reason. Mine don't look anything like that at the start. My HR gradually goes up over the course of the first mile or so, and then levels off, creeping up with the drift as the run gets longer, and oscillating a bit if I'm no hills. I don't get an early spike like that at all.

Weird isn't it?? But every run looks like that...

Mark B Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:51 pm

Ooo! Ooo! I know! I know!

The reason your heart rate goes crazy when you start your runs has nothing to do with your heart (no tachycarida), being amped up or anything like that. (If you think otherwise, feel your pulse while the HR monitor is going nutzo.)

What's happening is that your HR strap isn't making good enough contact. It settles down once you break a sweat and establish a good electrical contact.

Tightening the strap a little can help, but if you're really wanting to see a smooth ramp-up in your heart rate, you'll need to use something that'll help make the connection before you warm up. Some people use a special EKG gel for it, but I've found that aloe vera gel usually does a good enough job. Spit works, too... but it tends to get you weird looks. Shocked

Nick Morris Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:30 pm

Mark B wrote:Ooo! Ooo! I know! I know!

The reason your heart rate goes crazy when you start your runs has nothing to do with your heart (no tachycarida), being amped up or anything like that. (If you think otherwise, feel your pulse while the HR monitor is going nutzo.)

What's happening is that your HR strap isn't making good enough contact. It settles down once you break a sweat and establish a good electrical contact.

Tightening the strap a little can help, but if you're really wanting to see a smooth ramp-up in your heart rate, you'll need to use something that'll help make the connection before you warm up. Some people use a special EKG gel for it, but I've found that aloe vera gel usually does a good enough job. Spit works, too... but it tends to get you weird looks.

Hmmm...normally I wet it down before i put it on to make sure I get a good connection. But I will try tightening and making sure that it is thoroughly lubed tomorrow morning. Thanks

Nick Morris Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:14 am

08.10.13 -

9 miles...Back to lower elevation and back to following the schedule. A 9 mile run this morning as the weekends continue to ramp up. I got in a good 9.30 miles at a 7:35 pace. It feels good to know that an easy pace is in the upper 7:30s to lower 7:40s. That means that things are starting to come around Smile

My average heart rate was again at 140. I took Mark's advice and tightened the strap on my monitor. Plus, I made sure that the sensor and strap were wet, so that I would have a good connection. Below is the graph and I am still seeing my HR sky high at the beginning of the run. I will post the chart soon.

I've got my first 20 miler of the training cycle tomorrow.

Nick Morris Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:18 am

So, after making some adjustments to my strap and making sure that it was wet prior to my run to get that good connection, I am still seeing a very high rate at the beginning of the run. Here is the graph from this morning.

9.30 miles/7:35 pace/140 bpm

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso11

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso11

Michael Enright Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:48 am

I sure don't know what explains that, but it's interesting.

I like that spike. What's your max?

Nick Morris Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:06 pm

Michael Enright wrote:I sure don't know what explains that, but it's interesting.

I like that spike. What's your max?

I know...I will make sure that I wet it down again tomorrow morning to see if I can get rid of the spike.

To answer your question. I have calculated my max to be 185.

Mark B Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Hm. Interesting.

You could always pause when you see the HR monitor going sky-high and do a quick check on your pulse. The odds are nearly 100% that what you detect manually won't be what the strap is reading. Unless you normally get chased by a pack of dogs shortly after you walk out the door, that is...

Try aloe vera gel, if you have it. Aquaphor might work, but that's more expensive. Spit/water doesn't seem to be cutting it.

Chris M Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:19 pm

That's crazy looking as an early HR and if that's a real indication of what your HR is doing, you have to change things up and do a walk/jog warmup and then let your HR build up naturally over a run after starting low. If that is really happening it will compromise your runs big time. It would be like maxing out on the bench press the first second you walk into a gym and the trying to do a normal workout after that. Leave HR on for your next run and nothing over 120 for the first 10 mins. Walk if that's what it takes. I'm still assuming this is some kind of equipment malfunction though.

KBFitz Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:48 am

Nick Morris wrote:So, after making some adjustments to my strap and making sure that it was wet prior to my run to get that good connection, I am still seeing a very high rate at the beginning of the run.

I started using a HR monitor last fall, after running 10+ years without. That's exactly the pattern I saw too -- high HR in the first mile then settling after I had warmed up. I had no idea that my cardio was working so hard in the warmup stage. After a few weeks like this (to establish it wasn't a monitor glitch), I eased considerably in the first mile. To my dismay, the pattern went away. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

Ease into your runs Nick. When the high initial HR disappears, you'll give true meaning to 'warmup'.

Nick Morris Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:35 am

08.11.13 -

20 miles...An excellent morning for my 20 miler. Overcast skies with temps around 60. There was a slight drizzle when I started and no wind. My goal for my first 20 miler was to keep my pace somewhere between 8:00 and 8:20 per mile. That being said, I started out fairly slow at 8:16 and 8:14 for the first two miles. Then I continued to get a little faster with each mile that ticked off. I ended up running the rest of the miles in the low 8s and middle to upper 7:50s. I felt really good during the entire run. It started to rain with about 4.5 miles to go and that rain continued all the way through the end of the run. By mile 20, I looked like a drowned sewer rat Smile

. I ended up completing 20.11 miles at an 8:03 pace. My heart rate averaged 137 for the run, as it started to creep a little at the end. I am very happy with this run, as 8:03 is where I wanted to be by my second or third 20 miler. Not a bad way to end a 30 mile weekend Smile

I have a feeling that the spike at the beginning of my runs is not related to equipment failure/not syncing. I deliberately made sure that everything was making contact this morning and I still saw the spike. It is not as large as the others that I posted, but is still there. I guess I can try an extended warm up to see if that helps...

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso12

Redemption: 2013 Hamilton Road2Hope Marathon - Page 7 Madiso12

nkrichards Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:42 am

Great run Nick. You are going to be so ready for that BQ in November!

Interesting heart rate conversation also...keep us informed.

Mark B Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:02 am

Nice run, Nick! That's a good pace for you at this point.

Weird on the heart rate. If you're sure it's not an instrument problem, you may want to try easing into that first mile. (I actually walk the first five minutes of all my runs.) It'll slow that first mile a bit, but it'll also reduce the strain on your system and reduce the chances if injury.

Nick Morris Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:07 am

Chris M wrote:That's crazy looking as an early HR and if that's a real indication of what your HR is doing, you have to change things up and do a walk/jog warmup and then let your HR build up naturally over a run after starting low. If that is really happening it will compromise your runs big time. It would be like maxing out on the bench press the first second you walk into a gym and the trying to do a normal workout after that. Leave HR on for your next run and nothing over 120 for the first 10 mins. Walk if that's what it takes. I'm still assuming this is some kind of equipment malfunction though.

It has always been that way for as long as I can remember. I have always thought that my body was just amped for the run and then calms down after awhile. It happens in races too. Except in races it sky rockets. I still think nerves may have something to do with it...

Or maybe it is an equipment malfunction.

Mark B Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:55 am

Nick Morris wrote:Or maybe it is an equipment malfunction.

I still suspect the equipment. My HR track line often has a spike during the first mile, even when I lube the strap like crazy. I learned that it was the device, not me, when I kept watching the HR on the monitor and could wiggle the strap to make sufficient contact for an accurate reading - and watched the HR plummet back down to where it should be. No matter what I do, it usually settles down by the time I finish my first mile and I begin to "glow."

If you're not actually feeling your heart race (do a manual check one of these times!), it's probably the strap. I've heard that more modern straps might be more accurate, but I'm cheap and can live with a little inaccuracy. Smile

Paula Sue Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:16 am

I agree with Mark. Contact even with water (spit) can be interrupted by the change in your pectoralis muscles when you start running. We used to use KY jelly in CCU/ICU when we weren't getting good contact with our monitor electrodes. I have used it on the leads of my HRM so contact wasn't broken in my runs...from beginning to end. Yes, I'm OCD! It's worth a try, it won't gum anything up because it's water soluble, and it only takes a dab smoothed over each of the two electrodes. Once the HRM strap is in place, just press lightly on both electrodes and you should be set. It would be interesting to see if that works on the graph.

Nick Morris Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:59 am

Mark B wrote:
Nick Morris wrote:Or maybe it is an equipment malfunction.
I still suspect the equipment. My HR track line often has a spike during the first mile, even when I lube the strap like crazy. I learned that it was the device, not me, when I kept watching the HR on the monitor and could wiggle the strap to make sufficient contact for an accurate reading - and watched the HR plummet back down to where it should be. No matter what I do, it usually settles down by the time I finish my first mile and I begin to "glow."

If you're not actually feeling your heart race (do a manual check one of these times!), it's probably the strap. I've heard that more modern straps might be more accurate, but I'm cheap and can live with a little inaccuracy.

No Mark, I do not feel my heart race, so it is probably the strap. I will do a manual check next time out.

Nick Morris Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:01 am

Paula Sue wrote:I agree with Mark. Contact even with water (spit) can be interrupted by the change in your pectoralis muscles when you start running. We used to use KY jelly in CCU/ICU when we weren't getting good contact with our monitor electrodes. I have used it on the leads of my HRM so contact wasn't broken in my runs...from beginning to end. Yes, I'm OCD! It's worth a try, it won't gum anything up because it's water soluble, and it only takes a dab smoothed over each of the two electrodes. Once the HRM strap is in place, just press lightly on both electrodes and you should be set. It would be interesting to see if that works on the graph.

Thanks Paula Sue. If it really is the strap, then I may try the jelly. Otherwise, I can probably live with the spike at the beginning.

Paula Sue Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:11 pm

I just read about your week in Denver. OMG...too funny! I used to live there...but didn't run. During my undergrad I was more into studying, drinking, dating, sleeping,...and a whole lot of skiing. I went back for a seminar in the early 90's. My hotel was downtown, so I ran downtown and didn't venture to the trail. SO MANY PEOPLE RUN DOWNTOWN in the early morning before work. I was amazed. Nope...they didn't talk, wave, acknowledge...but neither did I. I was concentrating on gasping for air Shocked

Nick Morris Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:21 pm

Paula Sue wrote:I just read about your week in Denver. OMG...too funny! I used to live there...but didn't run. During my undergrad I was more into studying, drinking, dating, sleeping,...and a whole lot of skiing. I went back for a seminar in the early 90's. My hotel was downtown, so I ran downtown and didn't venture to the trail. SO MANY PEOPLE RUN DOWNTOWN in the early morning before work. I was amazed. Nope...they didn't talk, wave, acknowledge...but neither did I. I was concentrating on gasping for air

I know...I can't believe how that got everyone going Smile

I got a good chuckle out of some of the responses. Everyone I met there seems really nice. Just not when they are running Wink

Sponsored content